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Friday13th 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 30 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 284
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 Posted: July 06 2015 at 23:11 |
 Atavachron wrote:
^ I have a Mothers bootleg from '67 Stockholm ('Tis the Season to be Jelly) and some of the material is very, very close to progressive rock, in fact it's about as prog as ItCotCK
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Interesting. I don't doubt it since some of the material on Uncle Meat is pretty dang prog.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 64688
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 23:03 |
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^ I have a Mothers bootleg from '67 Stockholm ('Tis the Season to be Jelly) and some of the material is very, very close to progressive rock, in fact it's about as prog as ItCotCK
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Friday13th
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 30 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 284
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 22:54 |
Freak Out is definitely NOT prog. I'll admit there's more prog on Revolver. Maybe Absolutely Free with "Brown Shoes" is getting there. The Who's "A Quick One..." should also be mentioned as a proto-prog epic. Funny, those two songs are pretty scandalous lyrically. I'd say those two and "Virgin Forest" by the Fuggs make the unholy trinity of proto-perv-prog epics 
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 18:52 |
you did - and you kept your word.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20532
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 18:39 |
emigre80 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Rednight wrote:
Leave It To Stever starring Jerry Blathers and Phony Dow. |
So, are you Blathers or Phoney? I never seem get that right. |
This promises to be a fun evening. I'm going to go make the popcorn. |
I did say to keep it fun, didn't I? 
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 17:15 |
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
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Points: 29625
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 16:56 |
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No one band can be fairly credited with inventing prog. I consider them to be proggy at least. I have everything from Rubber Soul to the bitter end and like them all very much. Over the years I have come to care less about what is officially prog or not. Is the music any good is all that really matters to me.
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emigre80
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 25 2015
Location: kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 2223
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 15:33 |
SteveG wrote:
Rednight wrote:
Leave It To Stever starring Jerry Blathers and Phony Dow. |
So, are you Blathers or Phoney? I never seem get that right. |
This promises to be a fun evening. I'm going to go make the popcorn.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20532
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 15:22 |
Rednight wrote:
Leave It To Stever starring Jerry Blathers and Phony Dow. |
So, are you Blathers or Phoney? I never seem to get that right.
Edited by SteveG - July 06 2015 at 19:32
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20532
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 15:11 |
Dean wrote:
SteveG wrote:
^Fair enough. Feel free to elaborate. |
If you insist.
Young described Strawberry Fjords as being the archetypal British Psychedelic rock song and you, in playing devil's advocate  , proposed that it was the archetypal prog song. The use of the definitive article before the word 'archetypal' implies the more precise meaning of 'archetypal', namely "An original model or type after which other similar things are patterned; a prototype" (archetype is derived from the Greek: arkhe meaning first and typos meaning model). This means a tad more than just"a typical example of something"'.
However, you've declared the boundary condition within which you are working by stating that 'archetypal refers to "a typical example of something"'. In this sense 'archetypal' has more or less the same meaning as 'quintessential'... (i.e., it doesn't have to be the first), so now all people need to do is list their favourite Prog song written any time during the decade that was the 1960s that they feel is "a typical example of Prog song" and the thread will wend its merry way. 
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I felt that clarification coming on, so I will correct my meaning of 'archetypal' with the preface of the word the (in italics) as in 'the archetypal' and hence, back to the prototypical meaning. Thanks. 
Btw, arkhe derived from the Greek: means origin, protos means first. (So PA will now have to change it's Proto Prog subgenre to Archeo Prog. Doh!)
Edited by SteveG - July 06 2015 at 19:38
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member
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Location: Tucson, AZ USA
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Points: 6815
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 14:45 |
Prog didn't just happen, it was the result of many years (centuries) of musical and technological innovation....omitting the classical composers, we had:
- Charlie Christian, who was the leading innovator of the lead electric guitar
- Django Reinhardt, who was a leading innovator in the jazz combo format, incorporating violin
- the invention of the modern solid body guitar, by Leo Fender and Les Paul
- the invention of the Mellotron and synthesizer
- musical studies of innovation, from the classical composers through be-bop and onwards
etc. I cannot identify any one person or group who "invented" prog, it was an inventive process that spanned a long period of time. There are probably beat composers of the 1950s who developed some amazing progressive music that has never been heard since. |
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terramystic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 776
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 14:20 |
WeepingElf wrote:
I don't think the Beatles were the "first prog band", but as Gulbamsen writes, they "paved the way", or at least, helped paving the way (there were others, too, but the Beatles were the best-known among them).
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Totally agree. IMO the Beatles reached the line between psych and prog.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
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Points: 13456
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 14:17 |
PrognosticMind wrote:
HackettFan wrote:
•Freak Out! was the first Prog, although with a tenuous historical connection with what occurred not long after in England.
•Strawberry fields was Proto-Prog at best, also with a tenuous historical connection with what occurred not long after or concurrently in England.
•Radiohead is not Prog. |
This. Took the words right out of my mouth!  |
I second this and I add that prog doesn't have a birthday. It evolved from something else and it didn't take a day. If Zeuhl is prog Carl Orff deserves a place on PA more than Beatles. They had the merit of bringing psychedelia and art rock to the ears of the pop public, but they didn't invent it.
Abbey Road is a prog album for me.
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Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half.
My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Points: 20501
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 14:17 |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Rednight
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 18 2014
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 4807
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 13:56 |
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Leave It To Stever starring Jerry Blathers and Phony Dow.
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 13:49 |
SteveG wrote:
^Fair enough. Feel free to elaborate. |
If you insist.
Young described Strawberry Fjords as being the archetypal British Psychedelic rock song and you, in playing devil's advocate , proposed that it was the archetypal prog song. The use of the definitive article before the word 'archetypal' implies the more precise meaning of 'archetypal', namely "An original model or type after which other similar things are patterned; a prototype" (archetype is derived from the Greek: arkhe meaning first and typos meaning model). This means a tad more than just"a typical example of something"'.
However, you've declared the boundary condition within which you are working by stating that 'archetypal refers to "a typical example of something"'. In this sense 'archetypal' has more or less the same meaning as 'quintessential'... (i.e., it doesn't have to be the first), so now all people need to do is list their favourite Prog song written any time during the decade that was the 1960s that they feel is "a typical example of Prog song" and the thread will wend its merry way.
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What?
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 12789
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 12:01 |
aglasshouse wrote:
I feel that the Beatles were not really much more than a sixties boy band. They had some interesting compositions for the time, but they really never escalated more than that. Maybe sometimes praise them a little to highly for something that wasn't that amazing. |
Your addled attempt at minimization lacks all historical perspective.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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aglasshouse
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 27 2014
Location: riding the MOAB
Status: Offline
Points: 1505
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 11:53 |
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I feel that the Beatles were not really much more than a sixties boy band. They had some interesting compositions for the time, but they really never escalated more than that. Maybe sometimes praise them a little to highly for something that wasn't that amazing.
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http://fryingpanmedia.com
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
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Points: 20532
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 11:39 |
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^Fair enough. Feel free to elaborate.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
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Posted: July 06 2015 at 11:37 |
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"archetypal" means a tad more than just "a typical example of something"
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What?
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Did the Beatles really Invent Prog? Or not?
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