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Topic ClosedTrollin' Polls Vol. 1: Dream Theater vs. Magma
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Poll Question: Which band do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
36 [40.45%]
53 [59.55%]
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Logan View Drop Down
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Points: 33095 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2010 at 19:27
Originally posted by KABSA KABSA wrote:



have you heard the latest Magma albums?

no
after 1978 i left `em behind
have they returned to good form
[/QUOTE]

The last two albums are superb.

                   ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


thats why i joined this site
get good recommendations etc
thanks Logan
last two
i`ll search
get `em
[/QUOTE]

KA and E-re are great. Will mention that with Emehntehtt-Re you'll probably be familiar with themes that Vander used in the album ("Hhai" etc.), but I think it's been done really well (some have dismissed it for not being original enough). 
Joyous.

And K.A is largely based on music composed in the 70s but the album had never been realized. 


Magma also has various, I think, very good modern compositions that they have not put to studio album yet ("Felicite Thosz" is a favourite of mine and is reminiscent of Offering, if you know that Vander band):







Edited by Logan - November 14 2010 at 19:29
Just a music fan passing through trying to fill some void. Various music I am into now: a youtube playlist
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2010 at 19:47
Originally posted by DisgruntledPorcupine DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:


He didn't mean that if you don't like DT, you're a snob. He means if you're a DT hater who takes every opportunity to bash them repeatedly, saying their not prog, saying all they do is noodle around with their instruments etc. It's snobbish, it's ignorant, and it's completely unneeded.

Well, they are not prog rock, so aren't most prog metal bands.  The media have come up with some convoluted definition by which prog metal, a metal genre, belongs to the prog umbrella.  It applies to prog metal in general, so only a DT fanboy would interpret it as DT bashing. Wink
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Points: 6088 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2010 at 19:52
Originally posted by SaltyJon SaltyJon wrote:

Originally posted by Anthony H. Anthony H. wrote:

Originally posted by SaltyJon SaltyJon wrote:

Magma.  


I'm shocked! LOL

Why?  You know my taste in music.


Sarcasm, dude.
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Points: 4489 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2010 at 21:12
Magma furr die win.
    
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2010 at 21:21
Easy: DT, of course.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 01:53
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Easy: DT, of course.

I voted for Magma.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 02:03
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Easy: DT, of course.

I voted for Magma.


I know, right?
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Points: 154 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 05:21
cheers for them tips `logan`
shall investigate
`offerring`
at the time i did`nt get into it
now
maybe
i`ll have to re-visit it
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Points: 155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 07:14
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by DisgruntledPorcupine DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:


He didn't mean that if you don't like DT, you're a snob. He means if you're a DT hater who takes every opportunity to bash them repeatedly, saying their not prog, saying all they do is noodle around with their instruments etc. It's snobbish, it's ignorant, and it's completely unneeded.

Well, they are not prog rock, so aren't most prog metal bands.  The media have come up with some convoluted definition by which prog metal, a metal genre, belongs to the prog umbrella.  It applies to prog metal in general, so only a DT fanboy would interpret it as DT bashing. Wink
First off, why can't metal be progressive? There's no reason why metal bands can't be progressive in the same way that rock bands can. Secondly, DisgruntledPorcupine is exactly right. Dream Theater get specifically targeted by haters because they apparently do nothing other than noodle and thus they aren't progressive. The metal has little to do with it. Opeth, for instance, get bashed for their "cookie monster growls", but there isn't much dispute that they are progressive. 
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harmonium.ro View Drop Down
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 07:21
Metal can't be progressive because Certif1ed said so. Wink

Well in the meantime even he found that there are exceptions and changed his mind a bit, so... Tongue
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Points: 13431 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 07:24
Originally posted by Elderflower Man Elderflower Man wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by DisgruntledPorcupine DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:


He didn't mean that if you don't like DT, you're a snob. He means if you're a DT hater who takes every opportunity to bash them repeatedly, saying their not prog, saying all they do is noodle around with their instruments etc. It's snobbish, it's ignorant, and it's completely unneeded.

Well, they are not prog rock, so aren't most prog metal bands.  The media have come up with some convoluted definition by which prog metal, a metal genre, belongs to the prog umbrella.  It applies to prog metal in general, so only a DT fanboy would interpret it as DT bashing. Wink
First off, why can't metal be progressive? There's no reason why metal bands can't be progressive in the same way that rock bands can. Secondly, DisgruntledPorcupine is exactly right. Dream Theater get specifically targeted by haters because they apparently do nothing other than noodle and thus they aren't progressive. The metal has little to do with it. Opeth, for instance, get bashed for their "cookie monster growls", but there isn't much dispute that they are progressive. 
Metal can be progressive. Time ago I suggested Tuatha De Danann for inclusion....DT are progressive, too. Only I don't like them. I have to say that Images and Words is not bad at all, but I can't compare it with anything of Magma (except for Merci, of course).
Non-pop  music, in general, is a question of state of mind. I like listening to Magma at home with earphones on, while I prefer Ayreon when I'm driving. Am I trolling?
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Points: 4707 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 11:24
Personally .... I listen to Magma sometimes....and it is interesting but I don't really like it that much.
 
DT has some excellent moments  and  some really bad moments....
 
No vote as I really don't like either of them enough
Prog On!
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 11:34
Originally posted by Elderflower Man Elderflower Man wrote:

 
First off, why can't metal be progressive? There's no reason why metal bands can't be progressive in the same way that rock bands can. Secondly, DisgruntledPorcupine is exactly right. Dream Theater get specifically targeted by haters because they apparently do nothing other than noodle and thus they aren't progressive. The metal has little to do with it. Opeth, for instance, get bashed for their "cookie monster growls", but there isn't much dispute that they are progressive. 

First off, I am talking about prog, not progressive.  Progressive in the context of advancing a music scene is entirely different and can happen in any music scene theoretically.  Prog only means the music called prog rock which started in the late 60s and so on and forth.Secondly, I did not say metal cannot be prog but that there are no metal bands that are prog to the same extent as prog rock. The only truly proggy prog metal band I heard are put in eclectic prog, so I wonder if that sort of proves my point. Wink  However, it depends on what you call prog rock. If Mostly Autumn's Last Bright Light or Karnataka's Delicate Flame Of Desire and similar complacent pop is prog rock, then yes, DT are prog too, no reservations on my part then. Wink  Now why metal is not prog rock is a very long argument and outside the scope of this topic, though if you should so insist, I will humour you.  Wink   And no, in general, people don't connect noodling and not being progressive. Actually, noodling is a very proggy trait and pervades much of classic prog, the word you are looking for is 'w***ing' or showboating.   
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Points: 19236 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 12:02
Magma
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Points: 155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 12:55
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Elderflower Man Elderflower Man wrote:

 
First off, why can't metal be progressive? There's no reason why metal bands can't be progressive in the same way that rock bands can. Secondly, DisgruntledPorcupine is exactly right. Dream Theater get specifically targeted by haters because they apparently do nothing other than noodle and thus they aren't progressive. The metal has little to do with it. Opeth, for instance, get bashed for their "cookie monster growls", but there isn't much dispute that they are progressive. 

First off, I am talking about prog, not progressive.  Progressive in the context of advancing a music scene is entirely different and can happen in any music scene theoretically.  Prog only means the music called prog rock which started in the late 60s and so on and forth.Secondly, I did not say metal cannot be prog but that there are no metal bands that are prog to the same extent as prog rock. The only truly proggy prog metal band I heard are put in eclectic prog, so I wonder if that sort of proves my point. Wink  However, it depends on what you call prog rock. If Mostly Autumn's Last Bright Light or Karnataka's Delicate Flame Of Desire and similar complacent pop is prog rock, then yes, DT are prog too, no reservations on my part then. Wink  Now why metal is not prog rock is a very long argument and outside the scope of this topic, though if you should so insist, I will humour you.  Wink   And no, in general, people don't connect noodling and not being progressive. Actually, noodling is a very proggy trait and pervades much of classic prog, the word you are looking for is 'w***ing' or showboating.   
Well, if we take "prog" to refer to 70's-era progressive rock, then no, Dream Theater aren't prog. No-one's disputing that Dream Theater aren't a prog rock band, because they aren't. But the general argument that the Dream Theater haters take is that Dream Theater aren't -progressive-. 

And in my experience, noodling which doesn't actually lead anywhere musically is basically w****ing, which is what DT are accused of.
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 19:35
Originally posted by Elderflower Man Elderflower Man wrote:

 

And in my experience, noodling which doesn't actually lead anywhere musically is basically w****ing, which is what DT are accused of.

No, w***ing is technical exhibitionism for the sake of it (which also doesn't really lead the music anywhere). Noodling is found in lots of prog albums, The Wall, TAAB, KC and Genesis in general.  
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Points: 28772 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2010 at 19:37
Originally posted by Anthony H. Anthony H. wrote:

Originally posted by SaltyJon SaltyJon wrote:

Originally posted by Anthony H. Anthony H. wrote:

Originally posted by SaltyJon SaltyJon wrote:

Magma.  


I'm shocked! LOL

Why?  You know my taste in music.


Sarcasm, dude.

Question
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Points: 2601 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2010 at 04:42
Oh boy. More Dream Theater bashing. Anyone would think they set out to offend someone. And here in prog rock land they get slated for playing complex music. And in solos yet.

If they did the Yes / Genesis thing and made pop tunes they would get slagged for that. Still I've only 2 DT albums, what do I know? But what is wrong with Metropolis and Ocatvarium?

I read a PA review of their latest . The review said how awful the Petrucci lyrics were but ... no examples given. Kind of makes the review less than credible, Which is a shame as I don't think it was a bashing review just needed something to back up the opinion.

Anyway my vote goes to Magma as I have no idea whether their lyrics are good or not. But the music I find is quite entrancing and original. And they manage to go on credibly without Klaus Blausquiz. (sp?) Not easy in their version of their line of work.

I don't mind negative comment... but I do like to read thoughtful criticism not just mindless bashing. I mean it's not as if DT are just some dumb (sic) metal band no?WinkTongue

P.S. I don't find metal dumb... I attempt irony... hence the emoticons and other clues.

Still, Magma.
Tongue
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Points: 7003 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2010 at 16:15
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Points: 155 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2010 at 17:07
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Elderflower Man Elderflower Man wrote:

 

And in my experience, noodling which doesn't actually lead anywhere musically is basically w****ing, which is what DT are accused of.

No, w***ing is technical exhibitionism for the sake of it (which also doesn't really lead the music anywhere). Noodling is found in lots of prog albums, The Wall, TAAB, KC and Genesis in general.  
Let me try that again. Noodling is a perfectly fine element to have in music, but the argument is that Dream Theater noodle excessively in lieu of actual content. Is that clearer?
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