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himtroy 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
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Points: 1601
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 Posted: October 20 2011 at 08:49 |
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I don't understand why people always go on about prog vocals being bad relative to other groups. It seems obvious to me that people singing generic pop tunes are going to have more singable and "pretty" melodies than those in prog rock for the same reason that prog rock has much more unique parts for everything else than pop music. Unique doesn't mean bad.
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
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Points: 8543
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Posted: October 20 2011 at 09:06 |
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I personally like most prog rock vocals. With a few exceptions. Heck, I even dig Andy Tillison's voice.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: October 20 2011 at 09:11 |
 himtroy wrote:
I don't understand why people always go on about prog vocals being bad relative to other groups. It seems obvious to me that people singing generic pop tunes are going to have more singable and "pretty" melodies than those in prog rock for the same reason that prog rock has much more unique parts for everything else than pop music. Unique doesn't mean bad. |
I wouldn't call them BAD either, seems to be a strong word. But, singers like Chris Cornell, Jeff Buckley, Layne Stanley just are/were better than a Neal Morse. That doesn't have much to do with songwriting, they just had more ability. It's mainly in prog metal that we see singers with good range and presence, like Gildenlow or Allen, otherwise awesome singers are the exception rather than the norm in prog.
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desistindo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 4321
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Posted: October 20 2011 at 11:04 |
rogerthat wrote:
himtroy wrote:
I don't understand why people always go on about prog vocals being bad relative to other groups. It seems obvious to me that people singing generic pop tunes are going to have more singable and "pretty" melodies than those in prog rock for the same reason that prog rock has much more unique parts for everything else than pop music. Unique doesn't mean bad. |
I wouldn't call them BAD either, seems to be a strong word. But, singers like Chris Cornell, Jeff Buckley, Layne Stanley just are/were better than a Neal Morse. That doesn't have much to do with songwriting, they just had more ability. It's mainly in prog metal that we see singers with good range and presence, like Gildenlow or Allen, otherwise awesome singers are the exception rather than the norm in prog. |
I agree that the vocals doenst have to do with song structure. Just listen Ian Anderson vocals to realise that: his singing is good even in the most intrincate tracks of JT.
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1601
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Posted: October 21 2011 at 08:57 |
desistindo wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
himtroy wrote:
I don't understand why people always go on about prog vocals being bad relative to other groups. It seems obvious to me that people singing generic pop tunes are going to have more singable and "pretty" melodies than those in prog rock for the same reason that prog rock has much more unique parts for everything else than pop music. Unique doesn't mean bad. |
I wouldn't call them BAD either, seems to be a strong word. But, singers like Chris Cornell, Jeff Buckley, Layne Stanley just are/were better than a Neal Morse. That doesn't have much to do with songwriting, they just had more ability. It's mainly in prog metal that we see singers with good range and presence, like Gildenlow or Allen, otherwise awesome singers are the exception rather than the norm in prog. |
I agree that the vocals doenst have to do with song structure. Just listen Ian Anderson vocals to realise that: his singing is good even in the most intrincate tracks of JT.
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Yes, but what I'm saying is that that generic pop voice has no place in prog rock. Personally I find all those "better" musicians you listened to be cringe worthy in a very distasteful and cliche' way. I don't care about Neal Morse either though, so that was lost on me. I'd rather hear somebody with a not so great voice doing their own thing than sound cliche'/
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: October 21 2011 at 09:00 |
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Is there such a phenomenon as a generic prog voice?
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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Posted: October 21 2011 at 10:08 |
himtroy wrote:
desistindo wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
himtroy wrote:
I don't understand why people always go on about prog vocals being bad relative to other groups. It seems obvious to me that people singing generic pop tunes are going to have more singable and "pretty" melodies than those in prog rock for the same reason that prog rock has much more unique parts for everything else than pop music. Unique doesn't mean bad. |
I wouldn't call them BAD either, seems to be a strong word. But, singers like Chris Cornell, Jeff Buckley, Layne Stanley just are/were better than a Neal Morse. That doesn't have much to do with songwriting, they just had more ability. It's mainly in prog metal that we see singers with good range and presence, like Gildenlow or Allen, otherwise awesome singers are the exception rather than the norm in prog. |
I agree that the vocals doenst have to do with song structure. Just listen Ian Anderson vocals to realise that: his singing is good even in the most intrincate tracks of JT.
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Yes, but what I'm saying is that that generic pop voice has no place in prog rock. Personally I find all those "better" musicians you listened to be cringe worthy in a very distasteful and cliche' way. I don't care about Neal Morse either though, so that was lost on me. |
Excuse me, Jeff Buckley and Layne Stanley are generic voices and cliched? Ok, now you have lost me.
himtroy wrote:
I'd rather hear somebody with a not so great voice doing their own thing than sound cliche'/ |
Er, wasn't that the point to begin with? Some prog singers exploit their holistic understanding of music to get past their limitations. But that still means it is a compositional rather than vocal talent.
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ProcolWho?
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2007
Location: New york
Status: Offline
Points: 171
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Posted: October 23 2011 at 21:19 |
rogerthat wrote:
ProcolWho? wrote:
There are nearly zero listenable female prog vocalists.
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I don't think unlistenable is the right word for singers of the caliber of Annie Haslam, Jacqui McShee, Sally Olfield, Barbara Gaskin, etc. And while Rachel Cohen and Heather Findlay can be pretty boring (for me), they are eminently more listenable than LaBrie or Neal Morse. In general, female singers are more melodic and the few who don't overemote are really good. |
I said nearly, and I wasn't talking about Haslam who is excellent, while besides Oldfield, I'm not familiar with the other names. You could even include Lisa Gerrard as top notch, why not class her as prog.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Posted: October 23 2011 at 22:05 |
ProcolWho? wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
ProcolWho? wrote:
There are nearly zero listenable female prog vocalists.
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I don't think unlistenable is the right word for singers of the caliber of Annie Haslam, Jacqui McShee, Sally Olfield, Barbara Gaskin, etc. And while Rachel Cohen and Heather Findlay can be pretty boring (for me), they are eminently more listenable than LaBrie or Neal Morse. In general, female singers are more melodic and the few who don't overemote are really good. |
I said nearly, and I wasn't talking about Haslam who is excellent, while besides Oldfield, I'm not familiar with the other names.
You could even include Lisa Gerrard as top notch, why not class her as prog.
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Well, it's not even nearly, is my point. I have no objection to calling Dead Can Dance prog because they are already on PA. Yeah, Lisa Gerrard is a wonderful singer too. And I don't know if everybody would consider Diamanda Galas 'listenable' but she's an amazing singer too. Which is basically the point. I have believed and continue to believe that because more guys than girls listen to prog, they tend to go ga ga more about the guys and that's all there is to it. I have noticed many times people unintentionally left out, say, Haslam while compiling lists of the best prog rock singers. They had no objection to the idea but they just automatically started thinking about the males. I don't know why this is. But this is anyway about american prog singers and we are off topic here.
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Solonine
Forum Newbie
Joined: October 31 2011
Location: Sweden
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Points: 11
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 18:26 |
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People, just listen to some Moon Safari if you want some quality vocals. Are you seriously not enjoying prog vocals? I think it's all great!
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desistindo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2010
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Points: 4321
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Posted: November 03 2011 at 19:35 |
Solonine wrote:
People, just listen to some Moon Safari if you want some quality vocals. Are you seriously not enjoying prog vocals? I think it's all great! |
In Moon Safari the vocals are very good 
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KirksNoseHair
Forum Groupie
Joined: December 05 2008
Location: Norton, MA USA
Status: Offline
Points: 70
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Posted: November 11 2011 at 15:18 |
Well, I am an American, I have a prog band, and I had to go to Norway to get a good singer 
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desistindo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 02 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 4321
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 13:25 |
KirksNoseHair wrote:
Well, I am an American, I have a prog band, and I had to go to Norway to get a good singer
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Maybe you find a norwegian immigrant living next to you
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 19233
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Posted: November 15 2011 at 16:51 |
rogerthat wrote:
ProcolWho? wrote:
There are nearly zero listenable female prog vocalists.
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I don't think unlistenable is the right word for singers of the caliber of Annie Haslam, Jacqui McShee, Sally Olfield, Barbara Gaskin, etc. And while Rachel Cohen and Heather Findlay can be pretty boring (for me), they are eminently more listenable than LaBrie or Neal Morse. In general, female singers are more melodic and the few who don't overemote are really good. |
I agree with all of this. I'd add Lana Lane, even if she's more or less a second generation Ann Wilson (who happens to be one of my favorite vocalists of any genre).
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KirksNoseHair
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Joined: December 05 2008
Location: Norton, MA USA
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Posted: November 16 2011 at 17:24 |
I wish he was living here so we could tour to promote our album. But he lives in Norway. I think some American prog vocalists are quite good, Steve Walsh, Neal Morse, even Nick D'Virgillio are all very good vocalists and I'm sure I can come up with a few more. I agree that there are some "mediocre" vocalists populating the prog genre, though. But I'm not gonna mention any specific names.
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Fragile
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 27 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 1125
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Posted: November 18 2011 at 18:50 |
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This thread is still meandering and probably won't end, unlike a certain Swedish clown from years gone past.
The great prog bands and innovators were all from the late 60's early 70's.It was their time and it was our time who grew up with it.I fortunately as a young 16 year old was right in the middle of the prog storm.There has been no American great Prog vocalists as it was a very English thing and as such and there probably never will.
My favourite American singer is Todd Rundgren and his Utopia had a few excellent prog albums.
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6874
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Posted: November 18 2011 at 20:11 |
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So many bands with great music ruin it for me with the death growls. Like a New York Strip steak that is cooked so long, it's like chewing a hockey puck. The cookie monster is sooo overdone.
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-Radioswim-
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 15 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 331
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Posted: November 22 2011 at 20:40 |
There is good and bad in all things known. It's entirely in the eye of the beholder wether or not something is 'good'... problem is, your everyday beholder can't really see very far beyond preconception. Not by anyone's fault, sort of a blunder in human design (no offense god  ) My point is, who really cares? |
Dust in the Kitchen
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Why even american prog bands dont have good vocals
