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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Case Study: Muse
    Posted: October 17 2014 at 13:03
Why are they always one of the first bands mentioned when discussing modern progressive rock? Or at least the popular ones.

They aren't prog, they aren't progressive. They are a alternative rock group with a vocalist that likes piano. Sure The Resistance has some interesting and "experimental" parts with the classical influence - but i just don't understand how this band keeps getting the prog label. 

Give me some reasoning and thoughts. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2014 at 13:15
It fits quite well into 'post-progressive' label, alongside with Radiohead, Porcupine Tree, Anathema etc.

For me, Muse are playing a nice kind of art-pop. Not as sophisticated as proper prog bands, but definitely pretty much unusual and experimental to be mentioned on PA.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2014 at 13:18
Post-Progressive..? What the hell?

I can't see Muse's experimentation enough to be compared to Radiohead, PT, or Anathema - actually progressive music. I'm not even sure most of their material can be considered unusual. 

These guys are progressive and experimental but Flaming Lips lacks these aspects? That's another discussion though..  

What aspects or songs makes you think they are definitely experimental enough to be included here? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2014 at 13:44
Muse are mixing a lot of genres, incorporating in their music elements of symphonic rock, space rock, and also electronic music etc. Is that really usual for mainstream rock bands? I wouldn't say so.

They're not any more simple than other bands in Prog Related section here (i.e. Queen, Bowie, Black Sabbath etc.). Then, what makes me feel reasonable to compare Muse with Porcupine Tree, Radiohead and Anathema is the way how they make their music. They take alternative rock basis and make it more sophisticated. That what actually means 'post-progressive' (this term is being popularized by Kscope Records now), it means to create proggy mucic with alternative rock basis.

Yeah, Muse is quite a poppy band, I wouldn't argue with that. But Prog Related section is totally justified, methinks.

The Flaming Lips' inclusion is a different question for a different discussion, indeed Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2014 at 03:56
The progressive elements of their music were very strong on Absolution (if you can't hear it then you aren't listening properly) but since then they have gone for a more radio based approach and have made no secret they want to be more popular in the USA. The second album Origin of Symmetry as well as Absolution are the main reasons they were included here. Black Holes and Revelations sees a definite split in approach and The Resistance puts them in 'art pop' (not prog) territory as does the last one. I am a fan though and oddly The Resistance has grown on me even though it lacks serious prog credentials aside from perhaps Exogenesis Suite. Anyhow I like them a lot and that's all that matters to me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2014 at 21:38
I guess you could also include The Pineapple Thief in this 'post-progressive' bracket, although they are proggier than anything I've heard from both Muse and Radiohead, but not as Prog as Porcupine Tree. 'Nu-Prog' is another term I'm seeing this kind of stuff referred to as well..........
.......oh, the fine line between common alt-rock, and more refined musicianship.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2014 at 21:41
Because people group what they like into the same categories even if it's silly.
 
Because people don't know any better.
 
Because people consider them "weird" or "arty".
 
The three that came to the top of my mind.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2014 at 04:02
Remember, when fans & music journalists talk about prog in relation to modern music, 'new prog' and so on, most of them aren't really aware of what classic prog actually is or sounds like. They look at the increasing classical influences, especially juxtaposed against the recent electronic pop, and they go, that's artsy, that's prog. People associate prog with over the top bombast, they look at how ridiculous Muse have become in that regard in recent years, and they go, that's prog. They look at 'suites' (Exogenesis- only in name), longer than average songs (Citizen Erased), hints of concept albums (Absolution, The Resistance, presumably The 2nd Law), and they go, that's prog.

I think a 'prog-related' tag is reasonable. They've definitely had actual prog influences on their music, and while their openness to genre-mashing and bombast isn't specifically prog, it definitely goes quite a way beyond the standards of their scene and looks almost experimental from that perspective. Radiohead is more or less an entirely different category.
Muse were my teen obsession band- I grew out of the obsession and haven't listened to them in a few years (not that I don't respect what they've done), but I can attest from my point of view and the views of other fans I knew during that time, that Muse can act as a gateway band to prog. Not that that's an argument in itself, but yeah, it indicates something or other.


Edited by Kazza3 - October 19 2014 at 04:06
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2014 at 04:24
I guess to younger listeners, and to those who really haven't listened to much in the way of progressive related rock, Muse come across as highly inventive, imaginative and artistic. To lazy reviewers and trendy music magazines, they're on the right side of `proggy' because they're closer to indie rock, and they don't show too many of the `evil' self-indulgent traits that those magazines ignorantly despise prog for.

I definitely see a ton of early 70's Queen in Muse, but I don't think Matt Bellamy would deny that for even a second!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2014 at 06:27
There is no mystery about Muse; I have had 4 or 5 their albums including the 2nd Law and, with all due respect it's 99% art/alternative/indie pop. They are different from your "typical" radio-worthy pop, hence the "alternative" identifier. No need to give them more credit than is due. 

The album art on their latest is fantastic, though. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2014 at 07:49
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Post-Progressive..? What the hell?

I can't see Muse's experimentation enough to be compared to Radiohead, PT, or Anathema - actually progressive music. I'm not even sure most of their material can be considered unusual. 
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">These guys are progressive and experimental but Flaming Lips lacks these aspects? That's another discussion though..  </span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">
</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">What aspects or songs makes you think they are definitely experimental enough to be included here? </span>


Porcupine tree, Dream Theater, The Moody Blues, Post Gabriel Genesis, Jethro Tull... Can any of these bands really be considered 'unusual' They often sound fairly mainstream to me, but they are broadly considered progressive, and I accept that and love their music.

Perhaps you have a very narrow definition of progressive music. Does it have to all be played backwards in 16/12 featuring ironing board solo's and some bloke in a dress playing the spoons through a reverb unit sitting on a potty
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2014 at 18:18
Because, it seems for many "prog" basically has come to mean "this is a slightly not pop structure" or "they are weird!" or "they have keyboard" 


Not even being snarky
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2014 at 09:08
Listening to their stuff, it's not really prog, but it is prog related. Heck, even Dream Theater started copying Muse on Octavarium (not saying fans are too happy to admit it). Radiohead and Queen are on here, so why not Muse.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2014 at 10:41
I can't compare Muse with DT or PT. Muse is a Alt Rock with Prog Rock makeup (IMO) !! How you can compare them?! And IMO "Post-Progressive" is a funny joke! I saw many of "this kind of category" in some sites and blogs like Progressive Blues! or Progressive Pop! or ...
Please guys don't make new categories without knowing enough about music structure and elements and ... 
This is my opinion and maybe some guys don't like this opinion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2014 at 11:53
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I can't compare Muse with DT or PT. Muse is a Alt Rock with Prog Rock makeup (IMO) !! How you can compare them?! And IMO "Post-Progressive" is a funny joke! I saw many of "this kind of category" in some sites and blogs like Progressive Blues! or Progressive Pop! or ...
Please guys don't make new categories without knowing enough about music structure and elements and ... 
This is my opinion and maybe some guys don't like this opinion.
There is a number of examples of great mixtures of Prog and Blues, though.
Also, between Prog and Pop that dividing line is frequently so thin.
The bands are mixing the genres as never before.
But we don't need, in the time of tags, the terms that don't sound good. Let's imagine that an artist says, "I play progressive blues"; of course it sounds stupid, lol.



Edited by Svetonio - October 20 2014 at 13:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2014 at 06:46
well I`ve been listening to MUSE, to these ears there truly do have elements of progressive rock, jazz and classical music. which are there for all to hear... Star
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2014 at 10:22
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I can't compare Muse with DT or PT. Muse is a Alt Rock with Prog Rock makeup (IMO) !! How you can compare them?! And IMO "Post-Progressive" is a funny joke! I saw many of "this kind of category" in some sites and blogs like Progressive Blues! or Progressive Pop! or ...
Please guys don't make new categories without knowing enough about music structure and elements and ... 
This is my opinion and maybe some guys don't like this opinion.
There is a number of examples of great mixtures of Prog and Blues, though.
Also, between Prog and Pop that dividing line is frequently so thin.
The bands are mixing the genres as never before.
But we don't need, in the time of tags, the terms that don't sound good. Let's imagine that an artist says, "I play progressive blues"; of course it sounds stupid, lol.

You right. For example " Frank Flight Band - Remains ". I like this album and IMO this is a mixture of Prog and Blues . But as you said we don't need new tags now. In PA categories we can find a fair tag for this like Xover or Related. Thanks for your time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2014 at 11:42
Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I can't compare Muse with DT or PT. Muse is a Alt Rock with Prog Rock makeup (IMO) !! How you can compare them?! And IMO "Post-Progressive" is a funny joke! I saw many of "this kind of category" in some sites and blogs like Progressive Blues! or Progressive Pop! or ...
Please guys don't make new categories without knowing enough about music structure and elements and ... 
This is my opinion and maybe some guys don't like this opinion.
There is a number of examples of great mixtures of Prog and Blues, though.
Also, between Prog and Pop that dividing line is frequently so thin.
The bands are mixing the genres as never before.
But we don't need, in the time of tags, the terms that don't sound good. Let's imagine that an artist says, "I play progressive blues"; of course it sounds stupid, lol.

You right. For example " Frank Flight Band - Remains ". I like this album and IMO this is a mixture of Prog and Blues . But as you said we don't need new tags now. In PA categories we can find a fair tag for this like Xover or Related. Thanks for your time.
Frank Flight Band is a great example. I love their Evening Star , a 17 minute long epic.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2014 at 13:08
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by O666 O666 wrote:

I can't compare Muse with DT or PT. Muse is a Alt Rock with Prog Rock makeup (IMO) !! How you can compare them?! And IMO "Post-Progressive" is a funny joke! I saw many of "this kind of category" in some sites and blogs like Progressive Blues! or Progressive Pop! or ...
Please guys don't make new categories without knowing enough about music structure and elements and ... 
This is my opinion and maybe some guys don't like this opinion.
There is a number of examples of great mixtures of Prog and Blues, though.
Also, between Prog and Pop that dividing line is frequently so thin.
The bands are mixing the genres as never before.
But we don't need, in the time of tags, the terms that don't sound good. Let's imagine that an artist says, "I play progressive blues"; of course it sounds stupid, lol.

You right. For example " Frank Flight Band - Remains ". I like this album and IMO this is a mixture of Prog and Blues . But as you said we don't need new tags now. In PA categories we can find a fair tag for this like Xover or Related. Thanks for your time.
Frank Flight Band is a great example. I love their Evening Star , a 17 minute long epic.
 

I have "Remains" album. In this album I love "Dark Waters" and "Cat". "Cat" is 20 min epic. I really like to have FFB other albums. Unfortunately PA don't pick FFB. I think you can suggest FFB to PA better than me.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2014 at 13:15
Apparently, Austin is not A-Muse-d.
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