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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Neo-prog and Twelfth Night
    Posted: December 22 2014 at 16:59
Been talking with progbethyname about Twelfth Night lately so thought I'd make a thread about it.  I kind of break Twelfth Night into 3 eras.  First as the instrumental band that released a few early cassette only live releases.  Second as the Geoff Mann fronted version - which is my favorite and the one I want to focus on here.  Third as the Andy Sears fronted version after Geoff left for divinity school - and an untimely cancer caused death. 

I've always felt that the Geoff Mann version of the band made Twelfth Night the "neo-prog" band that even "neo-haters" could love.  Seems the other big neo bands relied heavily on Genesis as a starting point but I don't hear that with Twelfth Night.  During Geoff's tenure, the bands musical and lyrical approach and subject matter really set them apart from the other neo bands.  

What do others think about Twelfth Night with Geoff Mann?

(For those not familiar with them, this is their finest moment performing their anti-war epic Sequences at the Reading Festival in 1983 Wink

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Tom Ozric View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2014 at 20:48
I've got Fact And Fiction and Live And Let Live. Both with Geoff M and both wonderfully brilliant.
The live album cracks with punk-like energy and has a lot of personality. F&F has Creepshow, one of the best 80's Neo-Prog tracks ever conceived. The rest of the album is no slouch either.
Come to think of it, I haven't spun my vinyls of these for quite some time.....on the subject of TN, I would give a listen but my Prog library is 17000 km's away.......
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 09:14
Well damn you Mr. Crimso for being so interesting. You make me wanna be a better PA member.

As my wonderful friend, Dennis had pointed out Twelfth Night is definitely a band that stretches far and deep with in the influence of many many 80's Neo Prog or as some like to call it, modernized symphonic prog rock.
This is an area of discussion, I feel, that is very important.
I primarily like to talk about stage 2 in regards to Mr. Crimso's topic of conversation.
The what if?? I believe if Geoff Mann a) didn't die and b) rightly stayed with The band Twelfth Night would have made more of an impact on progressive music in general than they already had.
2 things really bother me. #1 not many people know about this band. Lets face it. It's true and they are very important as well. #2 is Geoff's untimely death. When ever I listen to the live version of live and let live's 83 marquee special of LOVE SONG it makes me ponder such regretful things sometimes like 'why can't you stay and solve your differences with your band mates' or what if twelfth night made just one more album with Geoff?? I think about these things because the whole definitive version of live and let live hits me pretty hard. It envokes a lot of different feelings of emotion, but is such a wonderful teacher at the same time.
Many bands owe a great dept of gratitude to twelfth night by helping them get a starting or reference point for what kind of sound/music they want to be known for. In my opinion, the infamous Neo acts like Pallas, Galahad, IQ, Arena, Pendragon and even some crossover Prog bands like big big Train all have the Geoff Mann era of Twelfth night stamped all over them. I hear it a lot.

Of course even before all this Genesis are the holy grail in influence for all those bands mentioned even Marillion.
It's amazing to think about, but I now know why Twelfth Night has drastically flows under the radar of most people or major music appreciators and that is because Mann's Twelfth Night is very short lived, but what an incredible short lived time it was.

* Tom Orzic. Get out those vinyls buddy or call Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden to fly your collection over to you this Christmas.    wouldn't that be something.

Lastly, love is an open door and we should all take a tip from the carpenter every now and then.
Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 09:28
Another thing. As I know of course that both you (Dennis and Tom) have live and let live definitive editions.
We should give some major to Karl Groom (yes he is that amazing lead guitarist of the Prog metal act threshold) for painstakingly trying to remaster what was an unbearable 2 track recording of that album. Mr. Groom with his Logic Pro tools software at his own studio (thin ice) has brought that album to life and took away a lot of the 'fizz' (microphonics) If you will. I will be honest, the remaster of live and let live double album is the best 2 track recording I've ever heard. Really only one song couldn't be saved on that album an that was AFGAN RED. it is miserable. Lol.
Anyway, mr. Groom did a great job making one of the very best live albums listenable from an audio standpoint.
Oh and that little UK Prog Metal band has some Twelfth night influence in their sound as well, especially the early days with Damian Wilson.

My goodness. Twelfth Night are spread out pretty good throughout the whole 80's and 90's Prog scene but how many people do you think know that??
Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 12:25
well the fabulous Twelfth Night the `80`s neo-prog band,  Geoff Mann R.I.P that's my personnel fav era...   



The best is yet to come..,they said when your an adult it will be fun! Thatís not how I see it...so thanks for NOTHING
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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 13:18
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Another thing. As I know of course that both you (Dennis and Tom) have live and let live definitive editions.
We should give some major to Karl Groom (yes he is that amazing lead guitarist of the Prog metal act threshold) for painstakingly trying to remaster what was an unbearable 2 track recording of that album. Mr. Groom with his Logic Pro tools software at his own studio (thin ice) has brought that album to life and took away a lot of the 'fizz' (microphonics) If you will. I will be honest, the remaster of live and let live double album is the best 2 track recording I've ever heard. Really only one song couldn't be saved on that album an that was AFGAN RED. it is miserable. Lol.
Anyway, mr. Groom did a great job making one of the very best live albums listenable from an audio standpoint.

I also love how he threw a live version of The Collector seamlessly into the album.  I actually had no idea The Collector was ever performed live before getting the Live and Let Live definitive edition.  I consider this one of my top 5 live prog albums of all time Wink 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 13:57
Of the early '80s bands that materialized on the UK 'prog scene' Twelfth Night (pre-Andy Sears) is without a doubt my favorite. Live at the Target is a great instrumental album, and I do love my instrumental music. With Geoff Mann, however, they became complete, and between the songs found on Smiling at Grief, Fact & Fiction and Collector's Item (home of "Deep in the Heartland" and the epics "The Collector" and lyric-enabled "Sequences"), Twelfth Night is a band unlike any other in the subgenre. Geoff's lyrics were incredible, he was a true poet. His lyrics never felt forced nor "oh-this-is-so-prog" or any of that.
 
And yes, TN didn't "sound like" Trick/Wind Genesis, the sound quite a few other bands were going for. Some progfans didn't like TN's sound because they felt Geoff's vocal style was too "punkish" or "new wave" for them, which I assume they attribute his "mannerisms" to.
 
The band's sound certainly didn't lack. Those were some nicely thick tones Clive Mitten coaxed from his bass (more evident in live recordings). Anyone who doubts Andy Revell's guitar talent can check out his "rock god" solo at the end of "Creepshow."
 
Sometimes  I randomly hear Geoff's voice, imploring "Use your free will! You decide! Yes ó You! You! You decide...whether or not you will return!"
 
"The Ceiling Speaks," "Sequences," "We Are Sane," "Creepshow," "The Collector," "F&F/Poet Sniffs a Flower," "Human Being"...amazing stuff. I don't not like anything Geoff is on, really.
 
It's when Andy Sears came aboard that things shifted. The sound shifted, became much more streamlined, accessible, commercial, whatever. I finally got rid of Art & Illusion. Andy's a capable singer and was probably the right guy at the time, and the pro-shot live vid at the Marquee with all Geoff-era songs is cool, but the studio stuff is sub-par, I'm afraid. Let's not discuss the eponymous 1986 album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 14:07
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Oh and that little UK Prog Metal band has some Twelfth night influence in their sound as well, especially the early days with Damian Wilson.
 
The new music with Damian rocks, too.

Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

My goodness. Twelfth Night are spread out pretty good throughout the whole 80's and 90's Prog scene but how many people do you think know that??
 
Too few, sadly.
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Moogtron III View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 15:02
I love Twelfth Night, in the phase with Geoff Mann as a front man.
Albums: Fact And Fiction and Collectors' Item especially.
Songs: We Are Sane and The Collector especially. Both are maybe amongst my 20 favorite songs of any band anytime!
Twelfth Night with Geoff Mann was very, very special!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 17:15
Never really got it. Many people have offered up Twelfth Night and it just does nothing for me. Always leaves them scratching their heads too because if you do the math I should like it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 20:56
I wonder if Geoff knew of Hammill ?? He comes across just as intelligent and intense as PH.
Funny that now reading this thread, I wanna listen to Fact & Fiction NOW.
Creepshow is a blow-out. And I love how the bassist (Revel or Mitten - I forget off-hand) doubles on keyboards, and is great on both .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 21:07
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I wonder if Geoff knew of Hammill ?? He comes across just as intelligent and intense as PH.
Funny that now reading this thread, I wanna listen to Fact & Fiction NOW.
Creepshow is a blow-out. And I love how the bassist (Revel or Mitten - I forget off-hand) doubles on keyboards, and is great on both .


He probably knew of him. Had to have, but I know that it was FISH who strongly took to hammil. What a great thing too. :)
Enjoy the album.
Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 21:16
^ I won't be able to listen to this for another 5 weeks.
.......I do want my cake and eat it as well......(the things I sacrifice for a holiday.....)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 21:19
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I've got Fact And Fiction and Live And Let Live. Both with Geoff M and both wonderfully brilliant.
The live album cracks with punk-like energy and has a lot of personality. F&F has Creepshow, one of the best 80's Neo-Prog tracks ever conceived. The rest of the album is no slouch either.
Come to think of it, I haven't spun my vinyls of these for quite some time.....on the subject of TN, I would give a listen but my Prog library is 17000 km's away.......

I couldn't have said it any better than that. Love that band and especially Mr. Mann who had a way of speaking straight to the heart without all the B.S.  "Love is an open door".
"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 21:32
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ I won't be able to listen to this for another 5 weeks.
.......I do want my cake and eat it as well......(the things I sacrifice for a holiday.....)


Oh man, you'll either have to call Bruce Dickinson or hitch a ride on Santa's slay.
Which do you think is more likely??
Might have to sacrifice some quality and SPOTIFY that sucker.
Raving and drooling I leaned on his neck with a screeeeeeeamm! ;)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2014 at 01:13
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ I won't be able to listen to this for another 5 weeks.

Despair not, brother. Check Youtube. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2014 at 02:48
Slightly off topic but Geoff Mann was a friend to another important neo prog band namely IQ. His sad passing was I think a reason that Pete Nicholls returned to the band partly to honour his good friend specifically for a live gig ( my knowledge is a little sketchy on this so it would be good if anyone knows more). 

They recorded this nice little tribute




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2014 at 03:27
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Slightly off topic but Geoff Mann was a friend to another important neo prog band namely IQ. His sad passing was I think a reason that Pete Nicholls returned to the band partly to honour his good friend specifically for a live gig ( my knowledge is a little sketchy on this so it would be good if anyone knows more). 

They recorded this nice little tribute





No, Pete Nicholls was already back to IQ before Geoff Mann passed away.
I remember that because I wrote a letter to Geoff Mann once I knew he was terminally ill.
I remember that I visited an IQ concert with Pete Nicholls in that time, and mentioning that in the letter to Geoff.
Sadly, when the letter arrived, Geoff was already dead.
Geoff and Peter got along well, Peter also contributing to Geoff's solo album Second Chants (from that album is also "Apathetic And Here I", but Pete didn't contribute to the original track, but to another song on that album)
Ever was released 1993, the Geoff Mann tribute in 1994.
You see, me and my friends were heavily involved in IQ and Geoff Mann in those days LOL


Edited by Moogtron III - December 24 2014 at 03:32
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2014 at 02:56
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Slightly off topic but Geoff Mann was a friend to another important neo prog band namely IQ. His sad passing was I think a reason that Pete Nicholls returned to the band partly to honour his good friend specifically for a live gig ( my knowledge is a little sketchy on this so it would be good if anyone knows more). 

They recorded this nice little tribute





No, Pete Nicholls was already back to IQ before Geoff Mann passed away.
I remember that because I wrote a letter to Geoff Mann once I knew he was terminally ill.
I remember that I visited an IQ concert with Pete Nicholls in that time, and mentioning that in the letter to Geoff.
Sadly, when the letter arrived, Geoff was already dead.
Geoff and Peter got along well, Peter also contributing to Geoff's solo album Second Chants (from that album is also "Apathetic And Here I", but Pete didn't contribute to the original track, but to another song on that album)
Ever was released 1993, the Geoff Mann tribute in 1994.
You see, me and my friends were heavily involved in IQ and Geoff Mann in those days LOL

Thanks for the info. I thought I had read somewhere that Nicholls was drawn back to do a one off gig and that it went well so that the band got back together permanently. That may also be wrong but in any case I seemingly got that and the tribute too Geoff Mann completely mixed up in my head. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2014 at 11:51
two classic neo-prog bands. Wink



The best is yet to come..,they said when your an adult it will be fun! Thatís not how I see it...so thanks for NOTHING
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