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Topic: 30 minute epics on vinyl? Posted: March 09 2015 at 18:41
I recently acquired a Utopia's debut on vinyl, and the second side is the song "The Ikon" that lasts a whopping 30:22. I had no idea vinyls back then could pass the 25 minute mark, so I'm wondering. You guys know any other old-school "prog epics" originally released on vinyl that run unusually long times? Not like Thick as a Brick or A Passion Play that are split up on each side, but rather on one side. It's no contest, but I'd likely be impressed with anything substantially longer than "Supper's Ready" or "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers."
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Posted: March 09 2015 at 18:52
Klaus Schulze had a few I believe. Maybe some Miles Davis from the '70s and possibly the live versions of ELP's "Karn Evil 9" and "Tarkus"(I don't feel like looking all this up right now but I'm about 95% sure of all that).
Supposedly once a side of vinyl went over about 25 minutes the sound degraded, so it wasn't done often. Oh, and speaking of Rundgren I think that long track on his Initation album was over 30 minutes too...about 95% sure.
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Posted: March 09 2015 at 23:17
I guess this doesn't count, since you said you don't want them split, but Focus had a song that lasted a bit longer than a side... I thin it was the Answers, Questions song, which ends at one side and continues for the last minutes on the other side before the other songs begin.
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Posted: March 09 2015 at 23:42
There are not many.....The ones listed are the most popular for prog and jazz fusion. Coltrane may have had some too...Most are in the 22-25min range per side.
Generally the sound does not degrade, what happens is you lose some low end response as the groove width gets thinner to allow everything to fit. Sound quality should remain unchanged....
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Posted: March 10 2015 at 00:30
The live version of Scheherezade from Renaissance's Live at Carnegie Hall clocks in at 28:50. The vinyl records we are most familiar with are what are known as long play, or l.p. for short and are distinct from the e.p. which means extended play. 18 - 20 minutes a side became the convention, probably due to production costs as much as anything else. They can actually handle an hour on a single side but the sound quality will be horrible. Both Genesis and Renaissance regularly exceeded conventional side lengths. Some classical labels would only do about fifteen minutes or so.
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Posted: March 10 2015 at 02:48
^ Correct !! Incredible pieces of Prog, too. Transatlantic had their All Of The Above epic on their debut, and some of Magma's epics are over a half-hour too. Pity they are split between sides these days. Sound quality over time quantity I suppose.
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Posted: March 10 2015 at 03:29
zravkapt wrote:
Klaus Schulze had a few I believe. Maybe some Miles Davis from the '70s and possibly the live versions of ELP's "Karn Evil 9" and "Tarkus"(I don't feel like looking all this up right now but I'm about 95% sure of all that).
Supposedly once a side of vinyl went over about 25 minutes the sound degraded, so it wasn't done often. Oh, and speaking of Rundgren I think that long track on his Initation album was over 30 minutes too...about 95% sure.
From my old vinyls:
The B side of Klaus Schulze "Dune" is exactly 30 minutes long.
Renaissance's Sheherazade on "Live at Carnegie Hall" scores 29:50
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
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Posted: March 10 2015 at 04:03
Todd's Treatise On Cosmic Fire was approx. 36 mins. It sounds fine (mostly just quirky synth noodling - in the true sense). About half is worthwhile to me. Side 1 has a selection of much better things.
Thanks, guys. I'll have to check some I haven't heard, though some I've heard and just forgot they were comparably long! Oldfield's Amarok was already on my list so that's double confirmation right there.
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Posted: March 10 2015 at 22:45
Todd was notorious for half hour album sides - When I saw the thread I immediately thought of Utopia. The International Feel from A Wizard/A True Star is another 30-minute whopper, but is a suite of very loosely connected tidbits rather than a true epic.
Rundgren made a lot of great music, but the low end really suffered in the records. Also, the narrow grooves facilitated bleed-through, and this problem is really bad on Ra, where the synth solo in Hiroshima can be heard faintly one revolution before its intended takeoff. It's like a pre-echo effect.
I bought the CD versions years ago, but they still sound tinny. I am not sure if the classic Rundgren and Utopia recordings have been remastered from the ground up. I would love to hear that stuff in its true full-frequency glory.
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Posted: March 11 2015 at 01:36
RockHound wrote:
Todd was notorious for half hour album sides - When I saw the thread I immediately thought of Utopia. The International Feel from A Wizard/A True Star is another 30-minute whopper, but is a suite of very loosely connected tidbits rather than a true epic.
Rundgren made a lot of great music, but the low end really suffered in the records. Also, the narrow grooves facilitated bleed-through, and this problem is really bad on Ra, where the synth solo in Hiroshima can be heard faintly one revolution before its intended takeoff. It's like a pre-echo effect.
Indeed !! And at the very start of Ra - 'Sunrise' - same thing ; you hear Powell synth before it actually starts..... Top album though. AWATS has a MAGNIFICENT side 1, very good, more 'traditional' Todd on side 2.
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Posted: March 13 2015 at 09:04
Catcher10 wrote:
There are not many.....The ones listed are the most popular for prog and jazz fusion. Coltrane may have had some too...Most are in the 22-25min range per side.
Generally the sound does not degrade, what happens is you lose some low end response as the groove width gets thinner to allow everything to fit. Sound quality should remain unchanged....
You also get some "talk through", which is the stylus picking up from the next groove if they are too close together.
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Posted: March 13 2015 at 09:06
Progosopher wrote:
The live version of Scheherezade from Renaissance's Live at Carnegie Hall clocks in at 28:50. The vinyl records we are most familiar with are what are known as long play, or l.p. for short and are distinct from the e.p. which means extended play. 18 - 20 minutes a side became the convention, probably due to production costs as much as anything else. They can actually handle an hour on a single side but the sound quality will be horrible. Both Genesis and Renaissance regularly exceeded conventional side lengths. Some classical labels would only do about fifteen minutes or so.
Genesis did usually exceed 45 mins per album for a simple reason; cassettes were mostly C90s so you couldn't get their albums on one side of a tape, which discouraged home taping.
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