Author |
|
Svetonio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
|
Topic: 30 minute epics on vinyl? Posted: March 14 2015 at 00:41 |
Music For 18 Musicians by Steve Reich, original ECM LP (1978); that B side, Sections V - XI - Pulse is 32 minute long. Although Steve Reich is not a prog rock act, many prog-lovers like his minimalistic music, so I want to mention the album.
|
|
CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
|
Posted: March 13 2015 at 13:37 |
Hercules wrote:
Progosopher wrote:
The live version of Scheherezade from Renaissance's Live at Carnegie Hall clocks in at 28:50. The vinyl records we are most familiar with are what are known as long play, or l.p. for short and are distinct from the e.p. which means extended play. 18 - 20 minutes a side became the convention, probably due to production costs as much as anything else. They can actually handle an hour on a single side but the sound quality will be horrible. Both Genesis and Renaissance regularly exceeded conventional side lengths. Some classical labels would only do about fifteen minutes or so. |
Genesis did usually exceed 45 mins per album for a simple reason; cassettes were mostly C90s so you couldn't get their albums on one side of a tape, which discouraged home taping. |
So what? When I used 90 minutes tapes, I just completed the other side with tracks from other albums. I could skip the tracks I didn't like, et hop! 2 albums on a C90.
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 16365
|
Posted: March 13 2015 at 10:12 |
Hi,
What is weird, is that in the age of the CD, when this can be accomplished easily enough, I can not even list them.
Djam Karet's The Trip is about the only one right off the top of my head!
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
|
|
Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
|
Posted: March 13 2015 at 09:06 |
Progosopher wrote:
The live version of Scheherezade from Renaissance's Live at Carnegie Hall clocks in at 28:50. The vinyl records we are most familiar with are what are known as long play, or l.p. for short and are distinct from the e.p. which means extended play. 18 - 20 minutes a side became the convention, probably due to production costs as much as anything else. They can actually handle an hour on a single side but the sound quality will be horrible. Both Genesis and Renaissance regularly exceeded conventional side lengths. Some classical labels would only do about fifteen minutes or so. |
Genesis did usually exceed 45 mins per album for a simple reason; cassettes were mostly C90s so you couldn't get their albums on one side of a tape, which discouraged home taping.
|
A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
|
|
Hercules
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 14 2007
Location: Near York UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7024
|
Posted: March 13 2015 at 09:04 |
Catcher10 wrote:
There are not many.....The ones listed are the most popular for prog and jazz fusion. Coltrane may have had some too...Most are in the 22-25min range per side. Generally the sound does not degrade, what happens is you lose some low end response as the groove width gets thinner to allow everything to fit. Sound quality should remain unchanged.... |
You also get some "talk through", which is the stylus picking up from the next groove if they are too close together.
|
A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
|
|
jmarkwilson
Forum Newbie
Joined: December 06 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 11
|
Posted: March 12 2015 at 02:15 |
"Wring That Neck" from Deep Purple's Scandinavian Nights is 32.06 minutes and "Mandrake Root" is 28.42.
|
mark
|
|
Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
|
Posted: March 11 2015 at 01:36 |
RockHound wrote:
Todd was notorious for half hour album sides - When I saw the thread I immediately thought of Utopia. The International Feel from A Wizard/A True Star is another 30-minute whopper, but is a suite of very loosely connected tidbits rather than a true epic.
Rundgren made a lot of great music, but the low end really suffered in the records. Also, the narrow grooves facilitated bleed-through, and this problem is really bad on Ra, where the synth solo in Hiroshima can be heard faintly one revolution before its intended takeoff. It's like a pre-echo effect. |
Indeed !! And at the very start of Ra - 'Sunrise' - same thing ; you hear Powell synth before it actually starts..... Top album though. AWATS has a MAGNIFICENT side 1, very good, more 'traditional' Todd on side 2.
|
|
RockHound
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 03 2013
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 571
|
Posted: March 10 2015 at 22:45 |
Todd was notorious for half hour album sides - When I saw the thread I immediately thought of Utopia. The International Feel from A Wizard/A True Star is another 30-minute whopper, but is a suite of very loosely connected tidbits rather than a true epic.
Rundgren made a lot of great music, but the low end really suffered in the records. Also, the narrow grooves facilitated bleed-through, and this problem is really bad on Ra, where the synth solo in Hiroshima can be heard faintly one revolution before its intended takeoff. It's like a pre-echo effect.
I bought the CD versions years ago, but they still sound tinny. I am not sure if the classic Rundgren and Utopia recordings have been remastered from the ground up. I would love to hear that stuff in its true full-frequency glory.
|
|
Friday13th
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 30 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 284
|
Posted: March 10 2015 at 22:23 |
Thanks, guys. I'll have to check some I haven't heard, though some I've heard and just forgot they were comparably long! Oldfield's Amarok was already on my list so that's double confirmation right there.
|
|
Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
|
Posted: March 10 2015 at 04:03 |
Todd's Treatise On Cosmic Fire was approx. 36 mins. It sounds fine (mostly just quirky synth noodling - in the true sense). About half is worthwhile to me. Side 1 has a selection of much better things.
|
|
octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13418
|
Posted: March 10 2015 at 03:29 |
zravkapt wrote:
Klaus Schulze had a few I believe. Maybe some Miles Davis from the '70s and possibly the live versions of ELP's "Karn Evil 9" and "Tarkus"(I don't feel like looking all this up right now but I'm about 95% sure of all that).
Supposedly once a side of vinyl went over about 25 minutes the sound degraded, so it wasn't done often. Oh, and speaking of Rundgren I think that long track on his Initation album was over 30 minutes too...about 95% sure.
|
From my old vinyls:
The B side of Klaus Schulze "Dune" is exactly 30 minutes long. Renaissance's Sheherazade on "Live at Carnegie Hall" scores 29:50
|
Curiosity killed a cat, Schroedinger only half. My poor home recorded stuff at https://yellingxoanon.bandcamp.com
|
|
friso
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 2505
|
Posted: March 10 2015 at 03:17 |
If its done really well you can fit 30 min on a vinyl, but you'll loose a lot of volume because of the thin grooves.
|
|
Sagichim
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 29 2006
Location: Israel
Status: Offline
Points: 6632
|
Posted: March 10 2015 at 02:49 |
Wapassou - Messe En Ré Mineur, this album has one track devided into 15 minutes on side A and 25 minutes on side B.
|
|
Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15916
|
Posted: March 10 2015 at 02:48 |
^ Correct !! Incredible pieces of Prog, too. Transatlantic had their All Of The Above epic on their debut, and some of Magma's epics are over a half-hour too. Pity they are split between sides these days. Sound quality over time quantity I suppose.
|
|
floflo79
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 21 2013
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 245
|
Posted: March 10 2015 at 01:10 |
Bayreuth Return is more than 30:00 long. Parallel World by Far East Family Band is 30:00 too.
|
|
|
Progosopher
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2009
Location: Coolwood
Status: Offline
Points: 6397
|
Posted: March 10 2015 at 00:30 |
The live version of Scheherezade from Renaissance's Live at Carnegie Hall clocks in at 28:50. The vinyl records we are most familiar with are what are known as long play, or l.p. for short and are distinct from the e.p. which means extended play. 18 - 20 minutes a side became the convention, probably due to production costs as much as anything else. They can actually handle an hour on a single side but the sound quality will be horrible. Both Genesis and Renaissance regularly exceeded conventional side lengths. Some classical labels would only do about fifteen minutes or so.
|
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
|
|
Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17514
|
Posted: March 09 2015 at 23:42 |
There are not many.....The ones listed are the most popular for prog and jazz fusion. Coltrane may have had some too...Most are in the 22-25min range per side. Generally the sound does not degrade, what happens is you lose some low end response as the groove width gets thinner to allow everything to fit. Sound quality should remain unchanged....
|
|
|
Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12609
|
Posted: March 09 2015 at 23:17 |
I guess this doesn't count, since you said you don't want them split, but Focus had a song that lasted a bit longer than a side... I thin it was the Answers, Questions song, which ends at one side and continues for the last minutes on the other side before the other songs begin.
|
|
TeleStrat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2014
Location: Norwalk, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 9319
|
Posted: March 09 2015 at 22:05 |
Not quite 30 minutes but... The 1972 album Gravedigger by the band Janus featured the title track as all of side two at 20:44.
|
|
Quirky Turkey
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2011
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 177
|
Posted: March 09 2015 at 20:55 |
Mike Oldfield's Amarok got a vinyl release and that album goes for an hour. So that's 30 minutes per side
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.