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brainstormer View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 15:00
I think because it's giving you all a taste of Baroque harpsichord, lute, mandolin, and guitar music,
but it's doing it in a slowed down manner, which is entrancing....also using very sophisticated engineering
techniques....I bet these progressions can be traced back somewhat to Rameau, Couperin, or Scarlatti. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 18:22
The whole album is perfect. Including Entangled.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 10 2015 at 22:18
Originally posted by WrytXander WrytXander wrote:

<span style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">Okay.</span><div style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">
<div style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">I love Entangled.<div style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">
<div style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">But can someone explain to me why everyone seems to worship it with such a passion?<div style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">
<div style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">I don't see how it's any more special than Ripples or Mad Mad Moon, so please somebody help me out Confused<div style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">
<div style="line-height: 18.2000007629395px;">I'm not a hater or anything, it's just I don't see the way a lot of people seem to do, some preferring it over even Watcher of the Skies. What's the huge appeal that I'm missing? What secret formula, and what other songs employ this formula to make themselves more appealing?


I think I like the song just about as much as you. Really great and beautiful song, but Genesis has many other songs that I like much better (from the classic period, from the two albums without Gabriel but with Hackett, and from the trio pop albums. However, I do like it more than Watcher of the Skies, but that's not because of how much I like Entangled, but rather because I don't really like Watcher so much... that one I don't understand why it's so beloved around here (or perhaps I do kind of understand). Now, if I were to choose between Entangled and the Hackett live version of Watcher on Tokyo Tapes... there I would have a harder time.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2015 at 02:47
Originally posted by WrytXander WrytXander wrote:


I love Entangled...

I don't see how it's any more special than Ripples or Mad Mad Moon...

some preferring it over even Watcher of the Skies... 


For me all those songs are quite good, not preferring any over the other, or only just a bit.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2015 at 03:56
Interesting! I'd never noticed until now that the only three tracks on Trick of the Tail which I regard as truly exceptional (Entangled, Los Endos and Dance on a Volcano) were the only three co-written by Hackett.

And then I check Wind and Wuthering and it's broadly the same picture. 

And once he left, I really don't like much of what they did, whilst much of his solo work shines for me (although a few tracks really don't work).

As for Entangled's appeal, it's beautiful, a bit other worldly and the outro is splendid.




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2015 at 08:50
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Aside from the previously mentioned keys duet, this is one of the most "Hackett" tracks Genesis ever recorded, if not the most.

Agree---and it could have been just the beginning of two of the greatest melodic prog composers ever---Hackett and Banks---a collaboration that should have continued but alas did not. I do love everything about the song and it's a great album---
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2015 at 09:54
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by WrytXander WrytXander wrote:

I love Entangled.

But can someone explain to me why everyone seems to worship it with such a passion?

I don't see how it's any more special than Ripples or Mad Mad Moon, so please somebody help me out

I'm not a hater or anything, it's just I don't see the way a lot of people seem to do, some preferring it over even Watcher of the Skies. What's the huge appeal that I'm missing? What secret formula, and what other songs employ this formula to make themselves more appealing?


Mainly it's Hackett's guitar for me, but it's got everything Genesis in a relatively short time span, and has a character that results from the combination of brilliant writing skills from two who were to increasingly not to see eye to eye. A lot of what prog fans like converges on it in a way that it fails to converge on other TTOT tracks, nice as they are. It's soft madrigal Genesis and mystical big sound Genesis. I've often been mystified by the appeal of Watcher of the Skies that the OP made reference to. It's intro, though a big grandiose sound, never struck me as very sci-fi sounding. I would have been pleased if the intro to it were more otherworldly like the Entangled outtro. I like the lyric. Someone prior did not, and, to carry on the contrast, I would agree with anyone who might say that the Watcher of the Skies lyric is more digestible and poignant as read on paper. However, the lyrics in Watcher seem forced into the music. In Entangled the lyrics really seem to belong.

Well said and I agree with more or less everything you said, save the lyrics and then only because I haven't really gone deeply into the lyrics.  Entangled captures the quintessence of Genesis but in a very drawn out, unhurried way which wasn't there even in the Gabriel era. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2015 at 22:03
Why Entangled? Before, Genesis was a band I had heard very little of and thought they were "alright' but no more. Entangled changed that. Upon hearing it for the first time, I was swept away. The ethereal, almost other-worldly quality of the music gripped me tightly and the long outro with the soaring, quivering notes made a chill run down my spine. From that point forward I became a Genesis fan and my appreciation of their music has only grown over the ensuing years. In short, Entangled is everything that Genesis did well rolled into one masterpiece of a song.

Looking back on it now, it should have come as no surprise that the entire Trick of the Tail album was so good. They had just lost their highly visible frontman and everything was on the line for them. This album had to succeed or they likely would not have been able to continue as a viable group. And succeed they did beyond anyone's wildest dream. Clap


Edited by SquonkHunter - June 11 2015 at 22:11
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2015 at 06:25
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

close your eyes, empty your mind, and listen to the last 2 minutes and you will know why
Imagine that these two minutes of Entangled are prolonged something, say at three minutes, without Collins singing and that it's nicely bridged to Watcher of the Skies intro, just as one track it might be a really great instrumental one, isn't? Thumbs Up

Edited by Svetonio - June 12 2015 at 06:34
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2015 at 16:00
"otherworldly..." "Hackett..." "Banks..." "Mellotron & Arp combo/duet..." intriguing title... the amazing two minute outdo is followed by those two chords of Squonk... the 12-strings... "Hackett's pauses..." "acoustic-electric combined to perfection..." Collins delicate vocal . . . and, of course, Rutherford's bass pedals. 

I have never liked "Watcher in the Skies"--the organ makes me cringe--so that element of the OP's question is, to me, moot. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2015 at 18:18
Originally posted by fudgenuts64 fudgenuts64 wrote:

Mellotron and ARP 2600 outro...

Definitely the Mellotron.  Probably the singular best use of the "cathedral choir" setting on the Mellotron that I have ever heard.  Gives me goosebumps everytime I hear it.  And - yes - the ARP 2600 synth as well...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2015 at 09:01
If it's any comfort to you: I agree that "Entangled" is a great track (although I still don't know what it pretends to be about, even after 40 years!) but my favourite song on TRICK has always been "Mad Man Moon", Tony Banksier than which it's impossible to get.

In spite of its rather dodgy lyrics, MMM features the most heavenly melody our Tony ever came up with. It is lushly orchestrated and sensitively sung by Phil Collins - perhaps his greatest ever vocal performance.

The only thing I regret about MMM is that egocentric Tony did not allow Steve H. a majestic, "Lamia"-style guitar solo in the middle!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2015 at 10:02
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

close your eyes, empty your mind, and listen to the last 2 minutes and you will know why

This.

Dat outro.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2015 at 12:27
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

If it's any comfort to you: I agree that "Entangled" is a great track (although I still don't know what it pretends to be about, even after 40 years!) but my favourite song on TRICK has always been "Mad Man Moon", Tony Banksier than which it's impossible to get.

In spite of its rather dodgy lyrics, MMM features the most heavenly melody our Tony ever came up with. It is lushly orchestrated and sensitively sung by Phil Collins - perhaps his greatest ever vocal performance.

The only thing I regret about MMM is that egocentric Tony did not allow Steve H. a majestic, "Lamia"-style guitar solo in the middle!

Wow--you read my mind. Agree 100%Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2015 at 20:16
Two lines from "Animal House":  Tongue
 
Bluto Blutarsky: *burp* Why not??
 
Kent Dorfman: Oh, boy, is this great!!
Caption: We tend to take ourselves a little too seriously.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2015 at 21:40
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Mellotron and ARP outro.......
WHAT A FRIGGIN' CRESCENDO..............
The blissful 'song' part is plain gorgeous.
A Trick Of The Tail - one of the best Prog albums of all time !!


Way to go Tom. Ya took the words right out if my mouth.


Nothing more can be said on this matter.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2015 at 22:42
Originally posted by WrytXander WrytXander wrote:

Okay.

I love Entangled.

But can someone explain to me why everyone seems to worship it with such a passion?

I don't see how it's any more special than Ripples or Mad Mad Moon, so please somebody help me out Confused

I'm not a hater or anything, it's just I don't see the way a lot of people seem to do, some preferring it over even Watcher of the Skies. What's the huge appeal that I'm missing? What secret formula, and what other songs employ this formula to make themselves more appealing?


I assume most of us in this forum are aware that with the release of Trick Of The Tail, Genesis had finally proven their point, (and themselves); that they weren't just Peter Gabriel's back-up band - After The Lamb, Gabriel's departure, and all the internal pressures that had been built up to that point, TOTT was like a release valve, a breath of fresh air, that produced an incredible collection of some of the band's best music.

"Entangled" was one of the gems within that new collection. It's simply a beautiful song and it show-cased the band's genius ability to their softer, lyrical folk-like side. I also think that part of the song's great appeal is due to the fact that it harkened back to Trespass & Nursery Cryme, but this time with Hackett written all over it, ending with Banks' beautiful and haunting Arp & mellotron solo.
There's always Watcher Of The Skies when I want to listen to Genesis' harder & and aggressive genius. The best of both worlds.

Smile



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2015 at 17:12
Because of goosebumps, thats why!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2015 at 18:54
Just curious.....but am I the only older guy over 60 who thinks this is an ok song but nothing that special...?
While I think both TOTT and WAW are good albums imho they are missing that 'something' that Gabriel brought to the mix with all the others.
I have relistened to TOTT and Entangled and while it's a nice track I simply don't see it as groundbreaking in any way.
Maybe I'm just too old and too stuck on the Gabriel years.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2015 at 20:25
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Just curious.....but am I the only older guy over 60 who thinks this is an ok song but nothing that special...?
While I think both TOTT and WAW are good albums imho they are missing that 'something' that Gabriel brought to the mix with all the others.
I have relistened to TOTT and Entangled and while it's a nice track I simply don't see it as groundbreaking in any way.
Maybe I'm just too old and too stuck on the Gabriel years.
Stern Smile
Get back on your meds, gramps, you're starting to warp again.LOL
 
As a 55 year old, I found Trick of the Tail's "new sound" far more interesting than the older Genesis stuff (where albums like Lamb and Selling England had long, boring and garbled sequences like Epping Forest and the 2nd half of Lamb that just weren't very interesting musically or lyrically). I liked Genesis far better on TotT and WaW and I preferred Gabriel's solo material far better than his Genesis stuff back in the 70s.
 
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