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Topic ClosedWhy did Roger Waters never get beyond The Wall?

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SteveG View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why did Roger Waters never get beyond The Wall?
    Posted: June 30 2015 at 11:33
Everyone , I'm sure, is aware of the break of Roger Waters with Pink Floyd after the album The Final Cut. He was still the same songwriter, but his following solo albums suffered in sales and, generally, were not well received by Floyd fans. Why?
And as for the albums produced by Pink Floyd after Water's departure, they were no longer biting concept pieces with brilliant lyrics. Why were they still so popular and sold in the millions?

Edited by SteveG - June 30 2015 at 11:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 11:59

Brand loyalty.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 13:21
With Pink Floyd you still have Gilmour's brilliant guitar work.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 14:11
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

With Pink Floyd you still have Gilmour's brilliant guitar work.
 
Beyond Gilmour's guitar (this being a big reason I preferred Gilmour post-Wall over Waters), I think it was also that David balanced Roger's eccentricities. Waters was the more manic and shrieking voice, whereas Gilmour has the more calm, mellifluous vocals -- this no better displayed than in the dual vocals of "Comfortably Numb" and "Dogs".
 
Gilmour once referred to himself as "a fatalist, but a happy fatalist", and I think this comes across in Floyd post-Waters. There is hope and at least a search for happiness, whereas Waters remains forever cynical, forever negative: no balance.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 14:44
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

With Pink Floyd you still have Gilmour's brilliant guitar work.
 
Beyond Gilmour's guitar (this being a big reason I preferred Gilmour post-Wall over Waters), I think it was also that David balanced Roger's eccentricities. Waters was the more manic and shrieking voice, whereas Gilmour has the more calm, mellifluous vocals -- this no better displayed than in the dual vocals of "Comfortably Numb" and "Dogs".
 
Gilmour once referred to himself as "a fatalist, but a happy fatalist", and I think this comes across in Floyd post-Waters. There is hope and at least a search for happiness, whereas Waters remains forever cynical, forever negative: no balance.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 14:47
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

With Pink Floyd you still have Gilmour's brilliant guitar work.
Agree. I have a guitar/guitarist bias in all my posts. Why stop now?
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:


 
Beyond Gilmour's guitar (this being a big reason I preferred Gilmour post-Wall over Waters), I think it was also that David balanced Roger's eccentricities. Waters was the more manic and shrieking voice, whereas Gilmour has the more calm, mellifluous vocals -- this no better displayed than in the dual vocals of "Comfortably Numb" and "Dogs".
 
Gilmour once referred to himself as "a fatalist, but a happy fatalist", and I think this comes across in Floyd post-Waters. There is hope and at least a search for happiness, whereas Waters remains forever cynical, forever negative: no balance.
This too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:10
Waters solo works lacks of the typical Wright magic which in many ways IS Pink Floyd - the later PF albums does not - that's why.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:16
I know I am in a minority, but I regard Waters' best work as being post-Floyd, namely Amused To Death.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:23
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I know I am in a minority, but I regard Waters' best work as being post-Floyd, namely Amused To Death.

Waters once said he was involved in only three totally satisfactory albums: Dark Side Of The Moon, The Wall and Amused To Death.

I like the album, but not as much as Dark Side.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 15:29
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And as for the albums produced by Pink Floyd after Water's departure, they were no longer biting concept pieces with brilliant lyrics. Why were they still so popular and sold in the millions?

Because the band name has the magic. PF post-Waters tried to revive the sonic adventures of their 1970's albums and the visual tricks from the live shows (flying pig, flying bed above the stadium which ignites fireworks once reaching the stage, the biggest lightshow ever etc. Baffling shows! I've been there. But Floyd was not necessarily a good band post-Waters. But they knew what the audience wanted.


Edited by Moogtron III - June 30 2015 at 15:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 17:58
In their ability to recreate Floyd both past and present post Floyd was still a great band live. Sadly for me, i've never seen Waters solo live but going by his DVDs it would be a treat.

Recorded output is a bit hit and miss for me but really how many old farts are still producing the goods ? At least goods that are as innovative as their youthful output. Some yes but most seem to get all pop schmaltzy on us or settle for technique (not necessarily a bad thing) rather than new ideas. Hell, it cannot be easy to be bustling in the hedgerow when you are in your 70s.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 18:21
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I know I am in a minority, but I regard Waters' best work as being post-Floyd, namely Amused To Death.

Waters once said he was involved in only three totally satisfactory albums: Dark Side Of The Moon, The Wall and Amused To Death.

I like the album, but not as much as Dark Side.


I confess I'm a Wish You Were Hereist. Dark Side is a fabulous album sonically but it was never a real favourite of mine. Quite like Amused but for mine it needs to sit beside the other two as something of an addenda if it is to be considered one of his or PF's best.

Then again I quite liked Division Bell and Final Cut. OK, they don't really say anything new but I still enjoy(ed) them. Not, and this is simply my probably worthless opinion only, as unimportant as e.g. the last few Genesis albums.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 22:41
I always thought Amused to Death was very well received. And the tours he's done since the late 90's have been very succesful, I believe. However, I do think he needed the equilibrium the other members of Pink Floyd brought to the table, and indeed the sound of both Wright and Gilmour is missing in his solo work.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 22:51
Frankly I have never been a fan of Water's vocals or bass playing....I think they are both very average.
He has come up with some good lyrics and concepts over the Floyd years and that's where he was always the best imo. Floyd was a total group effort musically where the sum of the parts was greater than the whole (similar to the Beatles)  and after they split up it was obvious.
For me they have not aged well and I don't play Floyd often these days, and  Water's solo music has been very uninteresting  to me.


Edited by dr wu23 - June 30 2015 at 22:52
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2015 at 23:49
Amused To Death was as good as anything Floyd put out, but excuse the pun...the sum of all parts meant that even Wright, Gilmour and Mason would not have had massive success either in a solo capacity, I don't think. Waters for me the key ingredient in Floyd. I remember him saying during the KAOS tour he was battling to fill 5000 seats while Floyd playing next door were filling 50-100K stadiums. Brand loyalty as a previous post says. His solo work all three in fact great albums.
 
When you listen to The Final Cut you realize even without Wright how beautiful an album it is. As much as Waters may want to consider it a solo album it is very much the finished article under Pink FloydEvil Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2015 at 02:25
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

I know I am in a minority, but I regard Waters' best work as being post-Floyd, namely Amused To Death.

Waters once said he was involved in only three totally satisfactory albums: Dark Side Of The Moon, The Wall and Amused To Death.

I like the album, but not as much as Dark Side.


Don't most artists consider their most recent work their best?

Also, Waters has been working on new projects like that opera about the French Revolution... has anyone here seen it? I also think he contributed with a song to a film soundtrack.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2015 at 04:11
Originally posted by NutterAlert NutterAlert wrote:

Brand loyalty.
Agree. We'll see if the new Gilmour album will sell as much as The Endless River Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2015 at 05:26
I still think "The Endless River" has been the best Pink Floyd album without Roger Waters, and I'd even put it above "Animals" and "The Wall".
It does seem Roger's writing dried up. "The Pros And Cons of Hitch-hiking" was also demoed around the time he'd demoed The Wall, so that's both late 70's.
"Radio Kaos" had a germ of a good idea but it was let down by no real musical ideas and terrible writing.
"Amused To Death" was a return to form though. But then Roger just... Drifted off. 
I haven't heard his opera, not really an opera person. And although his recent tour of "The Wall" was successful, it's still material from the late 70's. 
I'm hoping when he finally gets around to releasing "Homeland" it'll show there's life beyond "The Wall".

But what Pink Floyd really needed was a manager to point out how well they worked together, and how the band was bigger than the four of them. So that meant Roger winding himself back in a bit and David being a bit more open to ideas.
The fact they didn't rally round and help Rick Wright when he was having problems is quite sad. He deserved better than to be frozen out. 
I'm not expecting Pink Floyd to become all touchy-feely. Frankly, that would be terrifying!
But they could have done more.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2015 at 05:28
Originally posted by AZF AZF wrote:

 David being a bit more open to ideas.

Re: The Final Cut.

"If these songs weren't good enough for 'The Wall' why are they good enough now?"

Get off the blow, Gilmour and I don't know, work to make the songs better. Yes, Roger, that means co-crediting other people!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2015 at 06:04
I miss the 'music' in Waters' solo output. Too much talk-singing with little or no room for any musical spaces in between. When he broke with Floyd it seems as if there no longer were anyone around to point out the need for him to shut up....if only for a couple of minutes.
I rather dig a couple of tunes off Pros and Cons and Amused to Death, but they're funnily also the ones that open up and let the music breathe.

Loved his recent The Wall tour though, which I caught in Parken, Copenhagen - a stadium notorious for it's awful acoustics. This gig though proved just how wonderful of a sound it's possible to achieve on such a venue. It really set the bar.
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