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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2021 at 09:42
If you look the context of the times, new wave was more about catchy songs than songs with strong hooks. (I'll Stop The World and) And Melt With You is more of what they were aimimg for with some songs on Camera Camera.
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Points: 8857 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2021 at 09:13
agree, or maybe if Timeline had had more songs like "Flight".  Tyrant Tula was the song that local radio embraced at the time.  I thought it was also a reasonable direction.  I know we have talked alot about hooks but honestly I listen to a lot of what was big back then and can't find a hook if my life depended on it.  

Edited by kenethlevine - March 04 2021 at 09:14
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She does laugh these days while posting pics of herself from the 80s. Said once that she preferred the 70s. I agree with you that success would have wiped away these complaints. The Wilson sisters got themselves the same makeover in the 80s but had their biggest success in the 80s. That being said, it was always a mistake to go in a very commercial, synth pop kind of direction. What they needed was the quirkiness of the title track of Camera Camera or Okichi San but mixing it with Fairies or Running Away muddled the picture and then they doubled down on THOSE kind of songs with Timeline.
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I'd like to add to the discussion that Warner Bros, who bought Sire Records, to whom Ren were contracted to in the States, gave the band a big push with the ASFAS and Asure D'or albums. Marketing wise, taking out full page adds in the Village Voice and NYT to promote ASFAS and sent the band on a promotional tour doing TV shows in the States like the Merv Griffith Show. So, at a time when punk/new wave was going ballistic, the band were as big as they were going to be, given the times.


Oh wow, didn't know they made it to the Merv Griffith Show too. I do know they were on Don Kirschner in the pre Warner days, then Midnight Special and Mike Douglas. They also appeared in 81 on a Canadian TV channel to promote Camera Camera.

oh cool is there any video of the Canadian TV appearance?  As I mentioned before, the local FM station in Ottawa completely embraced Camera Camera at the time and so did a bunch of guys in my dorm, though I suspect they were drawn to Annie for more reasons than her voice!

As a side note only tangentially related, another gay friend and I who are into folk music and the folkier side of prog like Strawbs and Renaissance, love to joke about how if went on a gay cruise, we would want the requisite diva to be Annie or Maddy Prior rather than Cher or whoever is the current gal with chutzpah.  There is a fantastic moment in a Steeleye Span video that we love in which Maddy dances merrily across the stage in a polka dotted dress.  Yeah that's the stuff.

This says it's from a show called The New Music based out of Toronto.  Hence why Annie also refers to the Brunswick Tavern outing with her parents where she got tipsy and started singing Those Were The Days. 



This is much more like the Annie we know (I mean the laugh, not the, uh, hairstyle), not the stiff, nervous one seen in Sight & Sound.  Maybe they should have persuaded her to down a quarter before the show to relax. Wink

wow she looks pretty good there.  The 3 main members all had quite a makeover compared to their 1970s personae.  I know Annie doesn't alk about this period in the band history...I wonder if she even could watch this or if it would make her cringe.   I still say that commercial success during this period would have made all of these trappings much easier to swallow!
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I'd like to add to the discussion that Warner Bros, who bought Sire Records, to whom Ren were contracted to in the States, gave the band a big push with the ASFAS and Asure D'or albums. Marketing wise, taking out full page adds in the Village Voice and NYT to promote ASFAS and sent the band on a promotional tour doing TV shows in the States like the Merv Griffith Show. So, at a time when punk/new wave was going ballistic, the band were as big as they were going to be, given the times.


Oh wow, didn't know they made it to the Merv Griffith Show too. I do know they were on Don Kirschner in the pre Warner days, then Midnight Special and Mike Douglas. They also appeared in 81 on a Canadian TV channel to promote Camera Camera.

oh cool is there any video of the Canadian TV appearance?  As I mentioned before, the local FM station in Ottawa completely embraced Camera Camera at the time and so did a bunch of guys in my dorm, though I suspect they were drawn to Annie for more reasons than her voice!

As a side note only tangentially related, another gay friend and I who are into folk music and the folkier side of prog like Strawbs and Renaissance, love to joke about how if went on a gay cruise, we would want the requisite diva to be Annie or Maddy Prior rather than Cher or whoever is the current gal with chutzpah.  There is a fantastic moment in a Steeleye Span video that we love in which Maddy dances merrily across the stage in a polka dotted dress.  Yeah that's the stuff.

This says it's from a show called The New Music based out of Toronto.  Hence why Annie also refers to the Brunswick Tavern outing with her parents where she got tipsy and started singing Those Were The Days. 



This is much more like the Annie we know (I mean the laugh, not the, uh, hairstyle), not the stiff, nervous one seen in Sight & Sound.  Maybe they should have persuaded her to down a quarter before the show to relax. Wink
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

And of course TOTP in 1978 when Northern Lights charted.

I think Warner happened just a little late for them. Had they been signed on to Warner in 75,they may have gotten bigger without giving up too much on prog.
Yeah, but their material was not top 10 fare in the mid seventies, imho, so it still would have been hard for them to be any bigger. "Mother Russia" is just not a hummable tune, imho.

That is true.  Renaissance is a bit of a paradox - accessible but not catchy.  They're somewhat like Gryphon that way, though a lot more accessible and definitely not THAT dense. Gentle Giant is the other extreme - not accessible but somehow infectious in a goofy way. In a sense, Ren come across like the classical music they were trying to re-create in a folk/prog set up.  Classical music of at least the pre-Schoenberg period is fairly easy to listen to but doesn't have the finger-snapping pulse of rock, wasn't intended to. Some of Genesis is like that too - Supper's Ready without the Winston Churchill waterbag portion.
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Points: 8857 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 13:01
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I'd like to add to the discussion that Warner Bros, who bought Sire Records, to whom Ren were contracted to in the States, gave the band a big push with the ASFAS and Asure D'or albums. Marketing wise, taking out full page adds in the Village Voice and NYT to promote ASFAS and sent the band on a promotional tour doing TV shows in the States like the Merv Griffith Show. So, at a time when punk/new wave was going ballistic, the band were as big as they were going to be, given the times.


Oh wow, didn't know they made it to the Merv Griffith Show too. I do know they were on Don Kirschner in the pre Warner days, then Midnight Special and Mike Douglas. They also appeared in 81 on a Canadian TV channel to promote Camera Camera.

oh cool is there any video of the Canadian TV appearance?  As I mentioned before, the local FM station in Ottawa completely embraced Camera Camera at the time and so did a bunch of guys in my dorm, though I suspect they were drawn to Annie for more reasons than her voice!

As a side note only tangentially related, another gay friend and I who are into folk music and the folkier side of prog like Strawbs and Renaissance, love to joke about how if went on a gay cruise, we would want the requisite diva to be Annie or Maddy Prior rather than Cher or whoever is the current gal with chutzpah.  There is a fantastic moment in a Steeleye Span video that we love in which Maddy dances merrily across the stage in a polka dotted dress.  Yeah that's the stuff.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 05:24
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

And of course TOTP in 1978 when Northern Lights charted.

I think Warner happened just a little late for them. Had they been signed on to Warner in 75,they may have gotten bigger without giving up too much on prog.
Yeah, but their material was not top 10 fare in the mid seventies, imho, so it still would have been hard for them to be any bigger. "Mother Russia" is just not a hummable tune, imho.
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Points: 20521 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 05:21
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I'd like to add to the discussion that Warner Bros, who bought Sire Records, to whom Ren were contracted to in the States, gave the band a big push with the ASFAS and Asure D'or albums. Marketing wise, taking out full page adds in the Village Voice and NYT to promote ASFAS and sent the band on a promotional tour doing TV shows in the States like the Merv Griffith Show. So, at a time when punk/new wave was going ballistic, the band were as big as they were going to be, given the times.


Oh wow, didn't know they made it to the Merv Griffith Show too. I do know they were on Don Kirschner in the pre Warner days, then Midnight Special and Mike Douglas. They also appeared in 81 on a Canadian TV channel to promote Camera Camera.
It probably was the Mike Douglas Show, not Merv. All those white middle aged late afternoon talk show hosts look alike to me. As you can see. LOL  I don't recall them ever being on the OGWT but the BBC loved them and they did a lot of BBC Radio broadcasts even from the earlier days.

Edited by SteveG - March 03 2021 at 06:00
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rogerthat View Drop Down
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And of course TOTP in 1978 when Northern Lights charted.

I think Warner happened just a little late for them. Had they been signed on to Warner in 75,they may have gotten bigger without giving up too much on prog.
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They were never on the OGWT from what I know. Or were they?
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I'd like to add to the discussion that Warner Bros, who bought Sire Records, to whom Ren were contracted to in the States, gave the band a big push with the ASFAS and Asure D'or albums. Marketing wise, taking out full page adds in the Village Voice and NYT to promote ASFAS and sent the band on a promotional tour doing TV shows in the States like the Merv Griffith Show. So, at a time when punk/new wave was going ballistic, the band were as big as they were going to be, given the times.


Oh wow, didn't know they made it to the Merv Griffith Show too. I do know they were on Don Kirschner in the pre Warner days, then Midnight Special and Mike Douglas. They also appeared in 81 on a Canadian TV channel to promote Camera Camera.
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Thanks Steve, it's worth it.  I'm bummed about the Symphonic journey DVD being damaged but the latest one is on its way and I think I will wait to watch the DVD rather than listen to the download
I always watch the DVDs first. When applicable, that is.
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Thanks Steve, it's worth it.  I'm bummed about the Symphonic journey DVD being damaged but the latest one is on its way and I think I will wait to watch the DVD rather than listen to the download
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Btw, nice review on the Union Chappel DVD Ken. Guess I'm going to have to break down and buy it.
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I'd like to add to the discussion that Warner Bros, who bought Sire Records, to whom Ren were contracted to in the States, gave the band a big push with the ASFAS and Asure D'or albums. Marketing wise, taking out full page adds in the Village Voice and NYT to promote ASFAS and sent the band on a promotional tour doing TV shows in the States like the Merv Griffith Show. So, at a time when punk/new wave was going ballistic, the band were as big as they were going to be, given the times.

Edited by SteveG - March 02 2021 at 12:35
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i've been digging on the first and, to a lesser degree, the second and Illusion's Out of the Mist as go-to "Renaissance" albums.  Of course, the classic lineup and run of albums from Prologue to Song for All Seasons remain favorites, but the first incarnation/Illusion, especially that first album, had a groovy sound.
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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I got the audio download of the high def concert!  High def audio?
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

I just reviewed "Live at the Union Chapel" and hope to review "Symphonic Journey" soon.  It's still on the main page but here is the permalink







Well written! Loved the way you concluded it. Rising from the ashes again and again.

Thanks!
My symphonic journey DVD got somehow damaged and there are parts that are virtually unwatchable  :(

Luckily the high def orchestral DVD is coming soon enough

Damn! Cry
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Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

I just reviewed "Live at the Union Chapel" and hope to review "Symphonic Journey" soon.  It's still on the main page but here is the permalink







Well written! Loved the way you concluded it. Rising from the ashes again and again.

Thanks!
My symphonic journey DVD got somehow damaged and there are parts that are virtually unwatchable  :(

Luckily the high def orchestral DVD is coming soon enough


ps - I will let you use the "Rising from the Ashes" analogy as it's a good one and I didn't quite think of it in those terms



Edited by kenethlevine - February 16 2021 at 07:58
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