Fracture: the root of hardcore music?

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'Fracture' is widely considered one of Fripp's best compositions, and
I've been listening to it a lot recently. I've started to notice how
many aspects of this song are now attributed to hardcore music
(Dillinger Escape Plan and such): the tritone intervals, spastic,
loud/soft and seemingly random song structure, the abrupt time changes,
random spurts of jazziness etc. As far as I know, this was the first
time anything of this nature was explored to that extent in music.
Would you consider this song to be the root of hardcore music (along
with other KC instrumentals, such as Larks Tounges in Aspic), or were
there other bands doing this before Fripp and KC? 

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AbsentEnemy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Groupie Joined: April 24 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 76	Topic: Fracture: the root of hardcore music? Posted: August 25 2005 at 13:50
	'Fracture' is widely considered one of Fripp's best compositions, and I've been listening to it a lot recently. I've started to notice how many aspects of this song are now attributed to hardcore music (Dillinger Escape Plan and such): the tritone intervals, spastic, loud/soft and seemingly random song structure, the abrupt time changes, random spurts of jazziness etc. As far as I know, this was the first time anything of this nature was explored to that extent in music. Would you consider this song to be the root of hardcore music (along with other KC instrumentals, such as Larks Tounges in Aspic), or were there other bands doing this before Fripp and KC?
	"If the company of tumbleweed is unexpected fun, you're a cactus..."

porter Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: August 07 2005 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 362	Posted: August 25 2005 at 14:42
	I don't know...well, KC seems to have invented "Metal" at least (even in Their own words). Such a "violence" in playing was nearly unheard of at the time, and so were the polyrhytms, the dissonant distorted guitar, and so on...some say Led Zep invented metal, if that's true they invented it 50%, the other 50 goes to Fripp and KC. You can find elements straight off KC records in bands ranging from Metallica to Nine Inch Nails (and that's saying a lot). I don't know DEP, but you've definitely awaken my curiosity
	"my kingdom for a horse!" (W. Shakespeare, "Richard III")

Retrovertigo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: June 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 537	Posted: August 25 2005 at 17:41
	Thor invented metal. Idiots.

the icon of sin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: July 29 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 588	Posted: August 25 2005 at 17:47
	I don't know about Crimson and straightforward metal (that was IMO Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult and possibly this Thor) but they took heavy guitar-based music to another level with "Larks' Tongues II", "Fracture" and "Red". Three of the best instrumentals in my collection...and do i have some good ones... Let me get this straight, a polyrhythm is where one instrument plays in a standard time signature and another plays a more complex signature until a point where tempos eventualy meet? And one os these instrumentes is usually a member of the rhythm section? I'm no musician so this defnintion probably sucks.

AbsentEnemy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Groupie Joined: April 24 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 76	Posted: August 25 2005 at 18:06
	Poly = many Rythyms = Rythyms So yes, that is one example. Back to the point: I'm not crediting KC with inventing straightforward metal. I'm talking about modern hardcore/math metal, whatever you want to call it.
	"If the company of tumbleweed is unexpected fun, you're a cactus..."

goose Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4097	Posted: August 25 2005 at 19:23
	Modern hardcore is by no means limited to weird stuff. It's not what you meant I guess but I've drunk rather too much to explain any further. Good night.

memowakeman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 19 2005 Location: Mexico City Status: Offline Points: 13032	Posted: August 25 2005 at 20:43
	Yes, i think 21st century schizoid man, is the really root of metal and hardcore, and the root of fracture obviusly
	Follow me on twitter @memowakeman

Progger Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: April 26 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1188	Posted: August 25 2005 at 20:49
	Jeeeez, first it's KC invented prog and now it's metal? I can name you a at least half a dozen bands that were doing both way before KC! They never progressed from being a college circuit band & the reason is in their tedious, way overated music

AbsentEnemy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Groupie Joined: April 24 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 76	Posted: August 25 2005 at 20:53
	That's the point of this thread: I'm asking wether there were bands before them doing the kind of stuff in Fracture that now defines lots of hardcore music (NOT conventional metal).
	"If the company of tumbleweed is unexpected fun, you're a cactus..."