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Joined: August 18 2013
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Topic: Medieval Influences and England role in Prog Rock Posted: October 14 2016 at 14:10
It should be noted that many of the things we consider "typically western" in music did not exist in actual medieval music. For instance, there were no triads, let alone seventh chords and the like. This was because the third, both major and minor, was considered a dissonant interval, and therefore two notes a third apart weren't to sound together. (This was a consequence of the Pythagorean tuning used in medieval music, in which thirds were off by a syntonic comma.) Instead, the most common kind of accompaniment in medieval music were drones - long, sustained or repeated notes. So someone strumming triads on a lute in order to accompany a singer should know that what he is doing is not medieval.
Edited by WeepingElf - October 16 2016 at 08:21
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Posted: September 29 2016 at 05:02
^But if its anywhere near accurate and this was close to what the ancient greek teens were streaming, and their postmen were whistling to while delivering Ancient Greek Times to the subscribing philosophers and semi gods, I'd say we still haven't caught up with them.
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Posted: September 29 2016 at 04:15
Saperlipopette! wrote:
but Limenlos: Second Hymne Delphique a Apollon reminds me of Giacinto Scelsi + selected Avant / RIO / Zeuhl-stuff:
- I know I know, but still kinda fascinating isn't it?
Yes, it's the perfect example of what people imagine the music of ancient Greece meets the Renaissance would sounds like. Plus Zeuhl? Even the ancient Greeks weren't that progressive.
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Posted: September 28 2016 at 11:31
WeepingElf wrote:
It has to be noted that in Medieval and Renaissance music, the names of the modes such as Lydian, Phrygian etc. do not refer to the same scales as they do in ancient Greek music. The names were taken from ancient Greek writings and applied to the Medieval modes at a time when people did not know what the ancient Greek modes were like and thus applied "wrongly". The ancient Greek system was much more complex than the Medieval/Renaissance system; for instance, some ancient Greek modes used quarter-tones.
Correct, I was trying to keep it simple as making it over-complex is an unnecessary distraction. However, you have made the point that others in this thread has been making - without a means of writing down music or recording performance no one knew what music of an earlier era was like.
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Posted: September 28 2016 at 09:40
It has to be noted that in Medieval and Renaissance music, the names of the modes such as Lydian, Phrygian etc. do not refer to the same scales as they do in ancient Greek music. The names were taken from ancient Greek writings and applied to the Medieval modes at a time when people did not know what the ancient Greek modes were like and thus applied "wrongly". The ancient Greek system was much more complex than the Medieval/Renaissance system; for instance, some ancient Greek modes used quarter-tones.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
"What does Elvish rock music sound like?" - "Yes."
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Posted: September 27 2016 at 18:28
thepurplepiper wrote:
A lot of interesting discussion in this thread about medieval music and how we don't truly know how it sounds; but I was under the impression that Gentle Giant incorporated medieval (or perhaps I was misinformed and it was a different time period) scales into their songwriting?
Correct. The Modes (scales) are even older than that, Aristotle and his pupils described these scales back in the 4th century BCE. Using ancient scales does not recreate ancient music, these modes were used in Jazz long before Gentle Giant and none of that ever sounded Medieval (or ancient Greek).
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Posted: September 27 2016 at 14:11
A lot of interesting discussion in this thread about medieval music and how we don't truly know how it sounds; but I was under the impression that Gentle Giant incorporated medieval (or perhaps I was misinformed and it was a different time period) scales into their songwriting?
Joined: June 21 2006
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Posted: September 27 2016 at 11:01
WeepingElf wrote:
Whether there is an afterlife or not is a difficult question, but is there any need to discuss it here?
...Not that difficult: evidences on how the brain and nervous system work show that an afterlife is more than unlikely, exception made of the concept and fantasy of it.
A difficult question remains: should one try by all means to reason someone who believes in it?
We'll need to discuss it here if it helps us understand why medieval influences can be found so often in prog.
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Posted: September 27 2016 at 01:36
Dean wrote:
jayem wrote:
Fine but please leave that kind of comments to people who've been disabled for a very long time and survive through endless pains
The promise of an afterlife is the most evil and wicked deceit that religion has ever purportraited. I despise any omnipotent god that has the power to prevent pain and suffering in this world but chooses not to. It is a conceit and it is a despicably abhorrent one.
If we're going to argue my path won't be about how a nice God should make sense to logicians, but rather posting about placebo effect, the power of imagination and the capacity to ignore what we don't like in reality. O'course I'll be far out of my depth as usual... PM? (I've PMed SteveG but he hasn't answered yet).
Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: September 27 2016 at 00:44
jayem wrote:
Fine but please leave that kind of comments to people who've been disabled for a very long time and survive through endless pains
The promise of an afterlife is the most evil and wicked deceit that religion has ever purportraited. I despise any omnipotent god that has the power to prevent pain and suffering in this world but chooses not to. It is a conceit and it is a despicably abhorrent one.
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Posted: September 26 2016 at 11:07
^I'm sorry my dear chap, but people of faith do not have a monopoly on pain and suffering. This is not the time and place for this discussion, but I would be happy to continue this discussion via a PM.
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Joined: June 21 2006
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Posted: September 26 2016 at 10:32
SteveG wrote:
Dean wrote:
It is nobler still to do that in this world without the promise of reward (or threat of punishment) in the next - once you get past that there is little need for a next world at all.
I agree 100%. There's nothing more that I can add to this statement.
Fine but please leave that kind of comments to people who've been disabled for a very long time and survive through endless pains
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