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WeepingElf View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Medieval Influences and England role in Prog Rock
    Posted: October 14 2016 at 14:10
It should be noted that many of the things we consider "typically western" in music did not exist in actual medieval music. For instance, there were no triads, let alone seventh chords and the like. This was because the third, both major and minor, was considered a dissonant interval, and therefore two notes a third apart weren't to sound together. (This was a consequence of the Pythagorean tuning used in medieval music, in which thirds were off by a syntonic comma.) Instead, the most common kind of accompaniment in medieval music were drones - long, sustained or repeated notes. So someone strumming triads on a lute in order to accompany a singer should know that what he is doing is not medieval.




Edited by WeepingElf - October 16 2016 at 08:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2016 at 04:13
Originally posted by Mr Smith Mr Smith wrote:

and to think none of this would be possible without American musicWink


Are you very new to prog rock, Mr Smith ? ;-)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2016 at 23:44
Here's a giggle... but is it Medieval, Renaissance or Baroque influenced?

Here's another clue:

...I suspect more of you will be familiar with this version of it:


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2016 at 10:48
^Hmm. This is wisdom indeed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2016 at 05:02
^But if its anywhere near accurate and this was close to what the ancient greek teens were streaming, and their postmen were whistling to while delivering Ancient Greek Times to the subscribing philosophers and semi gods, I'd say we still haven't caught up with them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2016 at 04:15
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

but Limenlos: Second Hymne Delphique a Apollon reminds me of Giacinto Scelsi + selected Avant / RIO / Zeuhl-stuff:



- I know I know, but still kinda fascinating isn't it?

Yes, it's the perfect example of what people imagine the music of ancient Greece meets the Renaissance would sounds like. Plus Zeuhl? Even the ancient Greeks weren't that  progressive. Clown
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2016 at 11:31
Originally posted by WeepingElf WeepingElf wrote:

It has to be noted that in Medieval and Renaissance music, the names of the modes such as Lydian, Phrygian etc. do not refer to the same scales as they do in ancient Greek music. The names were taken from ancient Greek writings and applied to the Medieval modes at a time when people did not know what the ancient Greek modes were like and thus applied "wrongly". The ancient Greek system was much more complex than the Medieval/Renaissance system; for instance, some ancient Greek modes used quarter-tones.

Correct, I was trying to keep it simple as making it over-complex is an unnecessary distraction. However, you have made the point that others in this thread has been making - without a means of writing down music or recording performance no one knew what music of an earlier era was like.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2016 at 09:40
It has to be noted that in Medieval and Renaissance music, the names of the modes such as Lydian, Phrygian etc. do not refer to the same scales as they do in ancient Greek music. The names were taken from ancient Greek writings and applied to the Medieval modes at a time when people did not know what the ancient Greek modes were like and thus applied "wrongly". The ancient Greek system was much more complex than the Medieval/Renaissance system; for instance, some ancient Greek modes used quarter-tones.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2016 at 05:05
but Limenlos: Second Hymne Delphique a Apollon reminds me of Giacinto Scelsi + selected Avant / RIO / Zeuhl-stuff:



- I know I know, but still kinda fascinating isn't it?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2016 at 04:34
Pan
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 18:28
Originally posted by thepurplepiper thepurplepiper wrote:

A lot of interesting discussion in this thread about medieval music and how we don't truly know how it sounds; but I was under the impression that Gentle Giant incorporated medieval (or perhaps I was misinformed and it was a different time period) scales into their songwriting?
Correct. The Modes (scales) are even older than that, Aristotle and his pupils described these scales back in the 4th century BCE. Using ancient scales does not recreate ancient music, these modes were used in Jazz long before Gentle Giant and none of that ever sounded Medieval (or ancient Greek).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 14:11
A lot of interesting discussion in this thread about medieval music and how we don't truly know how it sounds; but I was under the impression that Gentle Giant incorporated medieval (or perhaps I was misinformed and it was a different time period) scales into their songwriting?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 13:58
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

O'course I'll be far out of my depth as usual... PM? (I've PMed SteveG but he hasn't answered yet).
Your PM has been answered. Sorry for the delay. Now back to the lutes and wandering minstrels!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 13:43
and to think none of this would be possible without American musicWink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 11:01
Originally posted by WeepingElf WeepingElf wrote:

Whether there is an afterlife or not is a difficult question, but is there any need to discuss it here?
 

...Not that difficult: evidences on how the brain and nervous system work show that an afterlife is more than unlikely, exception made of the concept and fantasy of it. 

A difficult question remains: should one try by all means to reason someone who believes in it? 

We'll need to discuss it here if it helps us understand why medieval influences can be found so often in prog. 


Edited by jayem - September 27 2016 at 14:00
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 10:03
Whether there is an afterlife or not is a difficult question, but is there any need to discuss it here?
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 01:36
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Fine but please leave that kind of comments to people who've been disabled for a very long time and survive through endless pains

The promise of an afterlife is the most evil and wicked deceit that religion has ever purportraited. I despise any omnipotent god that has the power to prevent pain and suffering in this world but chooses not to. It is a conceit and it is a despicably abhorrent one.

If we're going to argue my path won't be about how a nice God should make sense to logicians, but rather posting about placebo effect, the power of imagination and the capacity to ignore what we don't like in reality. O'course I'll be far out of my depth as usual... PM? (I've PMed SteveG but he hasn't answered yet).


Edited by jayem - September 27 2016 at 05:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2016 at 00:44
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Fine but please leave that kind of comments to people who've been disabled for a very long time and survive through endless pains

The promise of an afterlife is the most evil and wicked deceit that religion has ever purportraited. I despise any omnipotent god that has the power to prevent pain and suffering in this world but chooses not to. It is a conceit and it is a despicably abhorrent one.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2016 at 11:07
^I'm sorry my dear chap, but people of faith do not have a monopoly on pain and suffering. This is not the time and place for this discussion, but I would be happy to continue this discussion via a PM. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2016 at 10:32
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It is nobler still to do that in this world without the promise of reward (or threat of punishment) in the next  - once you get past that there is little need for a next world at all. Wink
I agree 100%. There's nothing more that I can add to this statement.

Fine but please leave that kind of comments to people who've been disabled for a very long time and survive through endless pains

Edited by jayem - September 26 2016 at 10:45
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