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AFlowerKingCrimson 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
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Points: 16286
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 Topic: Can, Gong or Magma?
Posted: January 29 2017 at 14:08 |
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Calling me arrogant is incredibly ironic. I'm arrogant because I don't agree with you. Well I could say the same about you. Anyway, that's your opinion that you have more knowledge than I do. You never even provided any evidence to back up your statements. If arguing with someone without providing evidence isn't arrogant(like what YOU were doing) then I don't know what is. If you want to continue the argument send me a pm and we'll continue. Otherwise I am done.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 29 2017 at 14:36
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10055
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 12:56 |
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^you're the one that wanted to get out of the argument because of your lack of arguments and knowledge, but tried to hide behind not caring. I just didn't care that about your arrogance.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 16286
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 12:04 |
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You did the same exact thing. You claimed you didn't care what I think but then explained yourself and continued to argue. Don't be a frigging hypocrite. Anyway, I'm done arguing about the arguing.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 29 2017 at 12:28
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10055
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 11:57 |
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^sure you free to do-or not do whatever you want. But next time you don't feel like explaining yourself how about writing that instead of "dude, I don't care what you think" (which you clearly did anyway).
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
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Points: 16286
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 11:34 |
I don't feel like I need to explain myself to you. Let's just move on now. 
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 29 2017 at 11:46
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10055
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 11:16 |
 AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
Dude, I don't care what you think. I'm not going to argue with you. Think what you want. |
Oh thanks! How generous of you. But if you don't care what others/me think, why challenge or argue against any claims at all?
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 16286
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 11:09 |
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^ Dude, I'm not going to argue with you. Think what you want.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 29 2017 at 11:13
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10055
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 11:04 |
^Claiming that the band who (once) were most popular equals being most influential is just lazy thinking. Do you seriously believe that The Monkees are a more influential band than The Velvet Underground? Spesific proof lies within the history of popular music and understanding who and what paved the way for things to come.
If you honestly think Kraftwerk is less influential than Genesis because they don't have as many tribute bands you don't know what influence means. Having cover bands does not equal being influential. Tribute bands is a musical dead end - a copy.
Edit: now that you removed your post mine don't make much sense, but whatever...
Edited by Saperlipopette! - January 29 2017 at 11:08
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
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Points: 16286
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 10:27 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
^Well I'm better informed than you then. If you want to brand love for progressive music outside your prog-bubble as hipsters - it's arrogant of you but I don't care. 70's Yes and Genesis are HUGE on PA but as far as influence go, you can probably find every single band that owe them something in PA's artist archive + KC's debut paved way for the whole prog rock-genre before them so none of them really introduced anything "new" to rock. Rush I don't know well enough I doubt you can find their influence all over the music map.
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I don't believe I'm not informed but you are entitled to your opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree on this.
Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - January 29 2017 at 10:42
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10055
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 04:46 |
^Well I'm better informed than you then. If you want to brand love for progressive music outside your prog-bubble as hipsters - it's arrogant of you but I don't care. 70's Yes and Genesis are HUGE on PA but as far as influence go, you can probably find every single band that owe them something in PA's artist archive + KC's debut paved way for the whole prog rock-genre before them so none of them really introduced anything "new" to rock. Rush I don't know well enough I doubt you can find their influence all over the music map.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 16286
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Posted: January 27 2017 at 15:52 |
Saperlipopette! wrote:
hieronymous wrote:
Maybe I overstated Can's influence
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You didn't. It goes far beyond prog and regarding influence perhaps only King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Kraftwerk and Frank Zappa can match them (not counting Miles Davis) |
Maybe as far as hipsters go but I wouldn't say Can is more influential than Yes, Genesis(early) or Rush.
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Larkstongue41
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2015
Location: Eastern Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1360
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Posted: January 27 2017 at 15:38 |
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"Larks' tongues. Wrens' livers. Chaffinch brains. Jaguars' earlobes. Wolf nipple chips. Get 'em while they're hot. They're lovely. Dromedary pretzels, only half a denar."
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Progresearcher
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 01 2013
Location: Uzbekistan
Status: Offline
Points: 7
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Posted: January 27 2017 at 14:48 |
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I vote for Gong. Magma is a great, highly innovative band, but Zao is closer to my heart, so to speak. In fact, however, I'm not too much into Zeuhl, preferring RIO instead - mainly what's known as the Belgian school of the genre, eg Univers Zero, Present, Finnegans Wake, various Totems (you get the idea), etc. But I can't listen to Can! Don't really know why...
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14124
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Posted: January 27 2017 at 13:38 |
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I can see why people can't make much sense of significant parts of Can's output, and some of it annoys even me big time, despite being my favourite band.
Then Moerlen and Vander are great drummers allright, but when it comes to being absolutely unique and unmistakable, nobody comes close to Jaki. Same holds for Michael. Damo and Malcolm are totally unique, too, although it's easier as a singer.
Holger is a revolutionary, he did things with samples and in the studio that nobody had dreamt of before.
And Irmin is just such a musical heavyweight, he can do anything with style and competence, any region, any era.
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Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010
Location: Tomorrowland
Status: Online
Points: 10055
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Posted: January 27 2017 at 13:22 |
hieronymous wrote:
Maybe I overstated Can's influence
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You didn't. It goes far beyond prog and regarding influence perhaps only King Crimson, Pink Floyd, Kraftwerk and Frank Zappa can match them (not counting Miles Davis)
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Upbeat Tango Monday
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 10 2015
Location: Buenos Aires
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Points: 1189
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Posted: January 26 2017 at 23:55 |
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I don't like any of these bands that much, but...
Can > Gong > Magma
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Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement.
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12410
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Posted: January 26 2017 at 09:14 |
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Hard to choose for me. Yesterday could have been Magma, today Can, tomorrow Gong. Three excellent bands.
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friso
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 2505
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Posted: January 26 2017 at 00:16 |
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Magma is of course a great force of avant-prog, but so is Can. Gong is a nice psychedelic rock era gem, but not really a game changer. I think Magma's long history of playing their stupendous advanced music live is alone to take this poll.
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I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry.
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hieronymous
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2012
Location: Oakland, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 308
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Posted: January 25 2017 at 23:18 |
Maybe I overstated Can's influence - I don't really have any evidence other than the testimony I've seen in the Can Documentary (from the Can Box). Ultimately, it's not a contest, as the poll states, it's personal preference. I do think, however, that Can were very radical and forward-thinking in the studio - their use of the studio and their approach to the recording process was groundbreaking, and I think this is where a lot of their influence lies - I'm thinking more in the realm of electronic music - maybe that's why they aren't as well loved on a prog site? Maybe they are the least "prog" of the three bands.
Another aspect of Can that is so important is their improvisational side (a huge part of their aesthetic) - Magma is interesting in that one of Christian Vander's main influences was John Coltrane and the earlier versions of the band have much more jazz influence, and yet there seems to be very little improvisation built into the music. Some of the great improvising bands that went beyond mere genre are Can, Weather Report (the really early stuff), Frank Zappa (who also has as much if not more composition going on, even incorporating improvisation into composition with "xenochrony" - isn't that pretty prog in itself?), the Grateful Dead, Miles Davis (especially during his electric years from '69-'75), and King Crimson. To me, improvisation is one of the contested aspects of progressive rock - it's not essential (see Yes and Rush as prime examples) and yet one of the archetypal prog bands, King Crimson, incorporated it as a key element to their music.
Ignore me, I'm just having fun thinking about some of my favorite music!
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zravkapt
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 12 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6446
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Posted: January 25 2017 at 17:55 |
AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:
I think Can had the biggest influence on indie bands and hipsters(not that that really matters that much  ). For example I know that Sonic Youth were influenced by Can. Can you think of any non prog bands who were influenced by the other two? I can't. |
I've read interviews with punk rockers who loved Gong and Magma. I've even heard hip-hop songs that sample both.
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Can, Gong or Magma?
