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Topic ClosedKings X vs Muse

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Poll Question: which more recent prog power trio is best
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
29 [67.44%]
14 [32.56%]
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Jeffro View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2017 at 11:30
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

King's X aren't a progressive metal band. IMO, they're not even a metal band, but a hard rock band.

I agree. 
I see that they are "prog related" in the database. Let's assume they were proggier, even still metal wouldn't apply to them. Heavy prog maybe.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2017 at 15:48
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

King's X aren't a progressive metal band. IMO, they're not even a metal band, but a hard rock band.

My initial reaction is to want to disagree vehemently with you - to me they have a lot of the elements of progressive rock and are also very metal.

But I think that where I disagree the most is with the whole attempt to categorize them at all - they exceed any simple attempts to define them or limit them to one genre. Paradoxically to my argument, in that sense I think that they are very progressive. Gretchen Goes To Nebraska and Faith, Hope, Love to me are their peak - all the various elements, the vocal harmonies, the varied dynamics between heavy and acoustic, the obscure lyrics, etc. come together perfectly. Maybe Dogman is more metal and less prog, though maybe the "heavy" part of Heavy Metal is more appropriate than the "metal" part.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2017 at 16:22
I didn't mean to downplay the progressive side of their music. It is there. But to call them a "prog-metal" band is, IMO, inaccurate.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 23 2017 at 23:32
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Because they are one of the original prog metal bands.  Kind of like Queensryche, they were adding/doing things that metal bands really hadn't done before.  I agree that they aren't very progressive in comparison to most progressive metal bands that have followed, but they were kind of a proto-prog metal type of band; I guess. 

To quote their bio writer (Me): KING'S X have been included on ProgArchives because their music is a mixture of BEATLES-like melodic harmonies and BLACK SABBATH-like hard rock/heavy metal with progressive rock leanings, especially early in their career.

I guess my point is that I don't hear much "metal" in their music. In fact, in many cases, it's no where near metal. Yeah, they've had some heavier periods but it's never been a focus of their music. Iron Maiden is metal. Metallica is metal. Kings X? Not really

Check out "Pillow" from Dogman, that's pretty metal to me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2017 at 05:04
Even if I know just a few songs from King's X, I enjoyed them more than anything from Muse.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2017 at 05:11
Muse by a long way, a far more interesting band.
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2017 at 05:15
Originally posted by Pastmaster Pastmaster wrote:

Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Because they are one of the original prog metal bands.  Kind of like Queensryche, they were adding/doing things that metal bands really hadn't done before.  I agree that they aren't very progressive in comparison to most progressive metal bands that have followed, but they were kind of a proto-prog metal type of band; I guess. 

To quote their bio writer (Me): KING'S X have been included on ProgArchives because their music is a mixture of BEATLES-like melodic harmonies and BLACK SABBATH-like hard rock/heavy metal with progressive rock leanings, especially early in their career.

I guess my point is that I don't hear much "metal" in their music. In fact, in many cases, it's no where near metal. Yeah, they've had some heavier periods but it's never been a focus of their music. Iron Maiden is metal. Metallica is metal. Kings X? Not really

Check out "Pillow" from Dogman, that's pretty metal to me.

Agreed. Moanjam is too but those are the exceptions in their music. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 24 2017 at 08:46
Muse
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2017 at 00:16
I still think that if you think King's X isn't metal, you're nuts! 

But rather than be frustrated, I'm instead going to take it as an opportunity to go back and listen to some King's X! I have a lot of driving to do this coming week so will throw some CDs in the car.

I totally get that they aren't only metal, or that they aren't pure prog, but I feel that they have very strong prog elements, and that they are often very metal - the metal characteristics that I would point to are the heavy distorted guitars, the crazy distorted bass, the downtuning, and definitely the RIFFS - a lot of their songs are very riff-based.

What's more important, the genre or the music itself?


Edited by hieronymous - February 26 2017 at 00:17
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 26 2017 at 06:48
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:


What's more important, the genre or the music itself?


LOLLOL well this is Progarchives... the music itself don't mean sh*t. Never has.  It is all about the genre!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2017 at 04:43
I redact my statements. Kings X is f**king METAL! MOTHER f**kING METAL!!

YEEEAHHHHH! PLAY SOME SLAYER!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2017 at 04:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 00:42
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I redact my statements. Kings X is f**king METAL! MOTHER f**kING METAL!!

YEEEAHHHHH! PLAY SOME SLAYER!

Come on - at least back up your opinion, don't just state your opinion as fact - if you have an opinion back it up, believe in what you say, otherwise it's just empty, worthless, why bother even saying it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, a lot of people here spout on and on about whether something does or doesn't fit a certain genre without ever giving any definitive characteristics by which we can determine whether or not a certain piece of music or band fits within a given genre. That's the easy way out, how about we study music and listen deeply to the music we love, instead of saying "x isn't this, it's that" - are you even a fan of this band you claim to understand genre-wise? Maybe one of the reasons I love King's X so much and have followed them, buying every single CD I can get my hands on for the past almost 30 years, is the cold hard reality that they actually transcend genre, listen to them because you love them and love the music they put out! If you're just categorizing them I guess I can just ignore you, what I probably should have done in the first place...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 04:48
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I redact my statements. Kings X is f**king METAL! MOTHER f**kING METAL!!

YEEEAHHHHH! PLAY SOME SLAYER!

Come on - at least back up your opinion, don't just state your opinion as fact - if you have an opinion back it up, believe in what you say, otherwise it's just empty, worthless, why bother even saying it. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, a lot of people here spout on and on about whether something does or doesn't fit a certain genre without ever giving any definitive characteristics by which we can determine whether or not a certain piece of music or band fits within a given genre. That's the easy way out, how about we study music and listen deeply to the music we love, instead of saying "x isn't this, it's that" - are you even a fan of this band you claim to understand genre-wise? Maybe one of the reasons I love King's X so much and have followed them, buying every single CD I can get my hands on for the past almost 30 years, is the cold hard reality that they actually transcend genre, listen to them because you love them and love the music they put out! If you're just categorizing them I guess I can just ignore you, what I probably should have done in the first place...

I agree with you that they transcend genre which makes categorizing them as metal even more perplexing. That's my point. 

Okay, I got sarcastic with my Slayer post. Big f**king deal. However, if you feel like you have to ignore me after interactions in one thread, then so be it. Go for it. No hard feelings.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 09:07
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

I still think that if you think King's X isn't metal, you're nuts!
 
They're too eclectic to be distilled down into a single word like that, be it metal, prog or whatever.
 
Songs like "Summerland," "Shot of Love/It's Love," "The World Around Me," "Send a Message," "Flies and Blue Skies," etc. aren't metal. I know Ty's guitar playing (and his covetable tone) might be the single greatest element to suggest they may be a "metal" band, but to me it's always been an example of how versatile those three guys are.
 
I'd rather discuss why aren't recording a new album, though. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 15:04
I flipped a coin.....Muse won.

Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 22:47
Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I agree with you that they transcend genre which makes categorizing them as metal even more perplexing. That's my point. 

Okay, I got sarcastic with my Slayer post. Big f**king deal. However, if you feel like you have to ignore me after interactions in one thread, then so be it. Go for it. No hard feelings.
I apologize - I was drunk when I made that post! I did express what I was feeling but it shouldn't have been directed at you. I think I just don't belong here - I find discussions of genre very frustrating. To me the best Progressive Rock bands transcend genre, but of course there are also bands that fit into the molds cast by the pioneers. The crazy thing is we may have actually been saying the same thing!

The good thing is that it has me listening to them again - they are a band I have come back to again and again over the past almost 30 years. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2017 at 22:58
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

I still think that if you think King's X isn't metal, you're nuts!
 
They're too eclectic to be distilled down into a single word like that, be it metal, prog or whatever.
 
Songs like "Summerland," "Shot of Love/It's Love," "The World Around Me," "Send a Message," "Flies and Blue Skies," etc. aren't metal. I know Ty's guitar playing (and his covetable tone) might be the single greatest element to suggest they may be a "metal" band, but to me it's always been an example of how versatile those three guys are.
 
I'd rather discuss why aren't recording a new album, though. LOL
I have to disagree here - I think that "The World Around Me" is very metal, as is "It's Love". So our understanding of what metal is is different. 

But I don't think I am saying that King's X ARE METAL or ARE PROG-METAL - I was frustrated at the statement that they AREN'T METAL - to me, heavy metal is a fundamental part of their musical identity and aesthetic, but they can't be adequately explained by just that one word. 

I need to stop thinking about this stuff! Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 05:08
Originally posted by hieronymous hieronymous wrote:

Originally posted by Jeffro Jeffro wrote:

I agree with you that they transcend genre which makes categorizing them as metal even more perplexing. That's my point. 

Okay, I got sarcastic with my Slayer post. Big f**king deal. However, if you feel like you have to ignore me after interactions in one thread, then so be it. Go for it. No hard feelings.
I apologize - I was drunk when I made that post! I did express what I was feeling but it shouldn't have been directed at you. I think I just don't belong here - I find discussions of genre very frustrating. To me the best Progressive Rock bands transcend genre, but of course there are also bands that fit into the molds cast by the pioneers. The crazy thing is we may have actually been saying the same thing!

The good thing is that it has me listening to them again - they are a band I have come back to again and again over the past almost 30 years. 

No problem. I apologize for the sarcasm. There's lots of things on the internet that are frustrating to discuss. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2017 at 05:22
I once heard a Muse track over the radio. I can't remember it.
That's about it regarding this poll.
King's X? Doesn't ring a bell. I keep thinking of this Finnish band called Kingston Wall...but it's not exactly the same methinks.
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