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It's 1973: Black Sabbath vs Led Zeppelin

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Poll Question: It's 1973, someone asks which of these 2 is your favorite...
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
26 [59.09%]
18 [40.91%]
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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: It's 1973: Black Sabbath vs Led Zeppelin
    Posted: February 06 2019 at 14:35
Rewind the clock to 1973.  Ozzy hadn't descended into a drink & drug disaster yet...Page & Plant were still a tight songwriting team before the death of Plant's son...both bands were filling stadiums and riding the peak of their popularity...both bands just released what could be argued as the most proggy album in their history.  Someone asks which of these 2 bands you like better and based only on the albums released so far your answer is?

Black Sabbath
s/t
Paranoid
Masters of Reality
Vol IV
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

Led Zeppelin
s/t
LZ II
LZ III
LZ IV
Houses of the Holy

I would've put this in 'Prog Polls' but since both bands are in PA as 'prog related' I thought this was the best forum...any mods feel free to move if prog polls is a better home Wink
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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 14:54
I was a little toddler then, but had I known both, I think I would have been a little more into Sabbath.
Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 14:56
Sabbath every time. I know it's semi-heretical, but I never really dug Zep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 15:00
I prefer Led Zeppelin.
Technically, for example in terms of singing and guitar virtuosity, Led Zeppelin surpass Black Sabbath.

The most beautiful album, in my opinion, is Led Zeppelin I (full of cover, I know, full of blues but....
it was very inspired and well arranged... it was the primal scream). 

Then Led Zeppelin IV.
Then, slightly lower, at a similar level, Led Zeppelin II, Paranoid, Master of Reality...
then, slightly lower, Black Sabbath.



Ps I like Masters of Reality (1988) too! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LAM-SGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 15:06
The major difference between them is that LZ were just recycling the blues whereas BS were breaking new ground with a heavy sound that wasn't blues based.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 15:23
^ Sabbath not blues-based?   Profoundly incorrect.   Sabbath were steeped in blues, in some ways more than Zep who were so schooled in it that they were able to transcend it.   Sabbath were, in a way, the ultimate heavy blues band.

Everyone in that time were essentially a blues band except the most arty (like Genesis): Tull, Floyd, ELP, Jeff Beck, all owe everything to American Blues.


"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 15:54
Sabbath was blues based, but the heavy sound came out of the Schlager tradition.

Or wait, I think it worked the other way around.

Just a fanboy passin' through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 17:47
^ You're kidding, right?

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 18:11
Jethro Tull.  Smile  
And right you are, David, re the blues running through all of the veins, especially at that time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 18:18
Sabbath on this one, especially since my favorite Sabbath album came out in 1973, so I'm biased.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Barbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2019 at 18:31
Zeppelin, bébé.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2019 at 00:05
Black Sabbath
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2019 at 01:25
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Sabbath was blues based, but the heavy sound came out of the Schlager tradition.

Or wait, I think it worked the other way around.

This is correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2019 at 01:33
LOL   That guitar is the most out of tune I've ever heard
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2019 at 01:44
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

LOL   That guitar is the most out of tune I've ever heard

Hey, the Pekingese was diggin' it.

But he got furry ears
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2019 at 05:43
Sabbath by light years. Zepp annoy me these days, though I hung onto a couple of their records (III and Presence)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2019 at 05:44
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Sabbath was blues based, but the heavy sound came out of the Schlager tradition.

Or wait, I think it worked the other way around.

This dude is one of Jello Biafra’s favourites
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2019 at 08:33
Saperlipopette, that is devilishly done (I indubitably love the demonish hound in the video). That shall be faux exhibit A, and possibly B, C, D etc. for this Sherlock Holmesian case.

^ Interesting, Tom. :) Perhaps, being into Dead Kennedys and the like, Biafra probably would have something to say on this conspiracy.

I found this: https://www.economist.com/europe/2005/11/10/hailing-heino

Originally posted by The Economist The Economist wrote:

...The answer lies in a genre of German hit songs known as Schlager, which are the antithesis of what hip 68ers and their spiritual successors groove to, with folksy melodies, schmaltz-dripping voices and simple lyrics. Theodor Adorno, a philosopher and musicologist, once dismissed Schlager songs as musical opium for the working class...

Heino's songs have also often been an outlet for feelings that German history has made it hard to express: love of the country, its culture and landscape. His repertoire, listened to on both sides of the Berlin Wall, included modern versions of traditional folk songs, or Volkslieder, even ones that were popular with the Nazis. In Hoyerswerda, which is near the Polish border, they earned him standing ovations from a crowd whose average age was well above Heino's 66. “These songs will still be sung”, he pledged, “when Heavy Metal, Punk and Hip Hop have long been forgotten.”...

Jello Biafra, former lead singer of a punk band, Dead Kennedys, has a collection of Heino records, to show how low you can get musically. And listening to their simple lyrics was always a great way to learn German.


I discovered Heino because the album cover in my avatar (one I used years ago as my avatar) is on so many worst album covers lists, but then I found a certain perverse pleasure in his music, and Schlager generally. I also find it creepy, but then I also found Lawrence Welk and his program creepy. More on that later.

Seems to me from that Heino album cover that he was in a Pat Boone mood -- Pat Boone from his In a Metal Mood: No More Mr. Nice Guy album (that was once my avatar), and there are musical comparisons to be made between the two.





Here's an article on Schlager: Is Schlager Music The Most Embarrassing Thing Germany Has Ever Produced?

The answer to that being an obvious no to me. History will find some more embarrassing examples. Watching Schlager videos does remind me of certain propaganda videos from the Nazi era, and as it does draw on themes and German folk music that was popular in Hitler's day. So, to me it seems quite sinister due to the associations I draw from it. Mixing my metaphors, and history, but listening to Schlager can be the aural equivalent to drinking the Kool Ade.

Hyperbolic article, but...

Originally posted by Rebecca Schuman@theawl.com Rebecca [email protected] wrote:

...the most popular genre of homegrown music, in the most important country in the world, is the aural equivalent of nuclear war. It’s an oeuvre that makes Christian rock seem subversive ... Schlager is a form of pop so insipid and saccharine that it is possible the Communists built the Berlin Wall to keep it out.


From Nico Roicke at the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2011/mar/15/schlager-germany-biggest-pop-stars

Originally posted by Nico Roicke@theguardian.com Nico [email protected] wrote:

Schlager, a strange genre of music, emerged after the second world war. It was an encapsulation of all things German and a backlash against American rock'n'roll. Ever since its early days, schlager has used simple patterns of music (just like Eurodance, Germany's other mega-genre) while its lyrics are rarely political, often concerning romantic themes. Whole subgenres are dedicated to niche topics such as being on holiday, country living, life on the Autobahn, living with animals and living with animals on the Autobahn.


Schlager may be saccharine schmaltz of the highest order, but it sure does evoke some heavy history for me in the associations that I make.



Edited by Logan - February 07 2019 at 08:47
Just a fanboy passin' through.
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The.Crimson.King View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2019 at 09:57
Sabbath by a wide margin.  I love a lot of LZ songs, but I love entire Sabbath albums. 

For those who say Sabbath had no blues roots, I hear it all over the debut album (especially the last half of Warning and Sleeping Village) and after all, they were originally called "The Polka Tulk Blues Band" Wink  Anyway, LZ wore their influences clearly on their sleeves (especially the blues they outright stole) where Sabbath was totally unique...taking a mix of blues and hard rock and inventing something no one had heard before - doom metal Evil Smile

As I mentioned in another recent thread, while in high school in the mid 70's all these rock fan kids would be saying, "LZ is so heavy" and I'd just laugh and say, "you want something heavy, go listen to the 1st 5 Black Sabbath albums" LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 07 2019 at 10:33
^ The blues roots/ influence is obvious to me. By the way, sorry for the digressions in your topic, but instead of mentioning Schlager, I was originally going to say polka (there is polka schlager), and I now rather regret it. Part of me remembered "The Polka Tulk Blues Band", but rather semi-consciously. Even in absurdity, there often lies some truth.
Just a fanboy passin' through.
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