Why does everyone hate The Battle Of Epping Forest |
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dougmcauliffe
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 23 2019 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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Yeah you gotta really nitpick to hate more fool me. It's a pleasant minimalist acoustic song. It isn't meant to be a firth of fifth or cinema show. The short tracks are important on the album to contrast the long centerpieces of the album.
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The sun has left the sky...
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Sacro_Porgo
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 15 2019 Location: Cygnus Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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I love More Fool Me. For a long time I vastly preferred it to Epping Forest. And I do think it can fit to the lyrical and musical concept of the record in that it sounds like a Medieval madrigal of sorts, Phil and Mike are just passing minstrels in the English countryside playing a sweet little love song for anyone who cares to hear. That's the sort of thing that would disappear with the Americanisation of England. It's also got really lovely guitar work in its own right, and Phil's voice was never sweeter (and brilliant harmonies too). At any rate, it certainly doesn't stick out as much as Whodunnit from Abacab. A little acoustic balladry is always welcome in my book.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19687 |
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My parents having lived in Edimburg in the 80's , I'm fully aware that the Firth of Forth (much more of a gulf or a bay or estuary than a river, as Firth is a Scot derivate of Fjord) is in Scotland, but my take on Fifth (outside the play on word on "fourth") is that it reflects the mythology and lost grandeur of the British (read English) Empire (of which Scotland is one of the last piece with Wales & North Ireland), hence the reference to greek & roman mythology. Sands of time were eroded by constant change. So yeah, FoF doesn't fit 100% into the concept, but at least musically, it doesn't deface SEBTP. |
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The Anders
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 02 2019 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3529 |
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I have nothing against "More Fool Me". It's no masterpiece, but it's nice enough. Plus, in the overall picture it's a nice break from the more complex songs. It adds some balance to the album I guess.
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Mortte
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 11 2016 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 5538 |
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Epping is not my fav Genesis song, but really haven´t ever hated it as also nothing else from the Gabriel-era. Only Genesis-album I don´t like at all is Calling All Stations.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 12751 |
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I don't particularly care for "Poor Boy Pity For Me"...oh wait...that's a Linda Ronstadt song...I meant "More Fool Me". But regarding: "2- MFM is totally out of context of the album's concept, which is about the collapse of the British Empire and the decadence of the English model." I would suggest "Firth of Fifth" has literally nothing to do with that model, or the alleged concept of the album. It was basically written in 1972 by Banks and was rejected as part of Foxtrot. Firth of Fifth is a take-off on the River Forth in Scotland, not England. But I suppose if one were to look at the album as "it represented a decay of English folk culture and an increase in Americanisation", then the pastoral theme could be wedged in someway or another.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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BrufordFreak
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 7957 |
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RE OP: The music sucks.
I don't hear/am not interested in lyrics, thus I don't know what it's about (or particularly care).
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19687 |
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Not short enough, IMHO. 1- Even at the same length as (the much-better) For Absent Friends (1'30") it would still overstay its welcome by its entire duration. 2- MFM is totally out of context of the album's concept, which is about the collapse of the British Empire and the decadence of the English model. 3- musically, it's completely dire and dry (downright poor, I should be tempted to write), even when compared to the other less complex tracks (Wardrobe and Ordeal) 4- I'm not even sure Collins would find a spot for this MFM track on his 80's solo albums, however poor & suckish they would be.
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The Dark Elf
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It is short and soon over, which is its saving grace. The same cannot be said for Epping Forest which drags on 5 or 6 minutes longer than its expiration date, hence its stench.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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dougmcauliffe
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 23 2019 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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I just dont get what's so offensively bad about More Fool Me
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The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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More Fool Me prevents SEBTP from being the truly perfect prog gem many claim it to be, IMHO.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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^ More Fool Me is a quaint little ditty. Sweet and innocent. How could you refer to it as a ‘Collins sung abortion’ ?? Bit harsh methinks.
And After the Ordeal is quite a lovely instrumental. I’d never ditch anything on SEBTP. |
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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The real controversy are those people who rate the collins sung abortion above the best rock opera that Genesis produced. I often fantasise about digital and CD being invented in 1970...Then you have SEBTP....
DOWTMK..13:02.. IKWIL...6:09.. FOF..21:12.. BOEF...23:49.. TCS...16:00.. In fact when I retire and convert my double garage into a recording studio, I may start a project to extend my fave symphonic prog...its a good retirement plan to have... |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19687 |
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the A-side is rather flawed IMHO Not a fan of Watcher (the intro last way too long), Friday is relatively good (but the band has yet to find its ground with those rock operas - Epping Forest will be much better), Timetable is really not good. Only Can Utility is ultra-great and I even find it superior to Supper, because it condenses everything they can do in less than 6 minutes. |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26246 |
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that is indeed a beautiful song. Foxtrot is an album I don't find any fault with although Watcher Of The Skies tends to be the slightly controversial track for some reason.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15916 |
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The song is a bit wordy, but still a great piece of Prog. I’ve never met any Genesis fan that dislikes it though.
P.S. - I love Rutherford’s Bass tone - just a great, almost glassy Rickenbacker sound - Squire never got this tone. |
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Sacro_Porgo
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 15 2019 Location: Cygnus Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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Ah yes, that's the one I was looking for, thank you! And yeah, I just find it a funny little play on words since Star Wars has a creature called a Porg and that's so close to the word prog.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19687 |
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Nah, the smiley wasn't offensive (at least to me) as I don't consider SK disco as well And OK, now I +/- get it (though I'm not familiar at all with Star Wars), but more via your username than the saga itself, since I don't know who or what porg is (it sounds like porc - hence my smiley). It's a weird play on words, than, I suppose?? BTW: confusion would be more like than the - wghich seems more like whackiness to me.
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Sacro_Porgo
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 15 2019 Location: Cygnus Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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Fair. I had thought you meant you wished Genesis had saved SR for SEBTP and cut Epping Forest to make room for it.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Sacro_Porgo
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 15 2019 Location: Cygnus Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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lol
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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