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Why does everyone hate The Battle Of Epping Forest
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Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't feel badly, I quite enjoy "Time Table" on Foxtrot, which earns me great malice amongst Genesis fans! 

"Epping Forest" is decent, but not a masterpiece.  Tony Banks does some great synth leads on that one.


I never knew people were supposed to not like Time Table, I do find it rather beautiful.

The first couple times I heard Foxtrot, Time Table was probably my favorite track. Gorgeous little piece, would've made a fine single. 
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Man people are just looking for stuff not to like, who is trashing time tables? What’s so offensive about that song or more fool me? Man, I just like music, do people listen to stuff actively trying to find something not to like about it?

Same. More Fool Me would rank as an absolute highlight on any soft rock or singer songwriter album in the 70s, but since it's on a prog rock record it gets a lot of flack for not being prog enough. Of course there was a recent thread where someone claimed Siberian Khatru was disco and totally didn't fit on a prog album, so who knows what's prog enough for a prog album? Wacko
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Man people are just looking for stuff not to like, who is trashing time tables? What’s so offensive about that song or more fool me? Man, I just like music, do people listen to stuff actively trying to find something not to like about it?

Same. More Fool Me would rank as an absolute highlight on any soft rock or singer songwriter album in the 70s, but since it's on a prog rock record it gets a lot of flack for not being prog enough. Of course there was a recent thread where someone claimed Siberian Khatru was disco and totally didn't fit on a prog album, so who knows what's prog enough for a prog album? Wacko


Before you Wacko anyone on this board, you little Clown, would you care to correct the first Pig word in your signature?? Evil SmileWinkLOL
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Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Man people are just looking for stuff not to like, who is trashing time tables? What’s so offensive about that song or more fool me? Man, I just like music, do people listen to stuff actively trying to find something not to like about it?

Same. More Fool Me would rank as an absolute highlight on any soft rock or singer songwriter album in the 70s, but since it's on a prog rock record it gets a lot of flack for not being prog enough. Of course there was a recent thread where someone claimed Siberian Khatru was disco and totally didn't fit on a prog album, so who knows what's prog enough for a prog album? Wacko


Before you Wacko anyone on this board, you little Clown, would you care to correct the first Pig word in your signature?? Evil SmileWinkLOL




Not a Star Wars fan I take it? And sorry if that emoji is offensive. It was the first one I saw that accurately conveyed my confusion at someone saying Siberian Khatru is disco.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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essexboyinwales View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Don't hate it, but don't like it much either.  For me, Genesis had several albums where they felt they had to have a "silly" song (or silly-sounding song), and this is one of them...

SEBTP-TBOEF+SR=GAOAT?

Clap

How do you subtract Epping Forest and add Supper's Ready? SR is more than twice as long, and Epping Forest is already 11 minutes. Not to mention early Genesis albums are always in the 50+ minute range at the absolute capacity for vinyl records.


Who said anything about vinyl?!

I'm just playing fantasy album mash-up.  SEBTP is one of my all time favourite albums, but it isn't perfect due to TBOEF.  So it can't compete with (e.g.) The Human Equation, Weather Systems, Misplaced Childhood, The Road Of Bones, Images And Words... (for the same reason that Money spoils DSOTM)

But, if SEBTP had included Supper's Ready, and not TBOEF, then (in IMHO) it would probably be the best of the whole lot...

Smile
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essexboyinwales View Drop Down
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Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Don't hate it, but don't like it much either.  For me, Genesis had several albums where they felt they had to have a "silly" song (or silly-sounding song), and this is one of them...

SEBTP-TBOEF+SR=GAOAT?

Clap

How do you subtract Epping Forest and add Supper's Ready? SR is more than twice as long, and Epping Forest is already 11 minutes. Not to mention early Genesis albums are always in the 50+ minute range at the absolute capacity for vinyl records.


Who said anything about vinyl?!

I'm just playing fantasy album mash-up.  SEBTP is one of my all time favourite albums, but it isn't perfect due to TBOEF.  So it can't compete with (e.g.) The Human Equation, Weather Systems, Misplaced Childhood, The Road Of Bones, Images And Words... (for the same reason that Money spoils DSOTM)

But, if SEBTP had included Supper's Ready, and not TBOEF, then (in IMHO) it would probably be the best of the whole lot...

Smile


Oh, and surely TBOEF is more like 19 minutes, not 11?  It sure as hell feels like it....
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Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Don't hate it, but don't like it much either.  For me, Genesis had several albums where they felt they had to have a "silly" song (or silly-sounding song), and this is one of them...

SEBTP-TBOEF+SR=GAOAT?

Clap

How do you subtract Epping Forest and add Supper's Ready? SR is more than twice as long, and Epping Forest is already 11 minutes. Not to mention early Genesis albums are always in the 50+ minute range at the absolute capacity for vinyl records.


Who said anything about vinyl?!

I'm just playing fantasy album mash-up.  SEBTP is one of my all time favourite albums, but it isn't perfect due to TBOEF.  So it can't compete with (e.g.) The Human Equation, Weather Systems, Misplaced Childhood, The Road Of Bones, Images And Words... (for the same reason that Money spoils DSOTM)

But, if SEBTP had included Supper's Ready, and not TBOEF, then (in IMHO) it would probably be the best of the whole lot...

Smile


Oh, and surely TBOEF is more like 19 minutes, not 11?  It sure as hell feels like it....

lol
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
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Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Don't hate it, but don't like it much either.  For me, Genesis had several albums where they felt they had to have a "silly" song (or silly-sounding song), and this is one of them...

SEBTP-TBOEF+SR=GAOAT?

Clap

How do you subtract Epping Forest and add Supper's Ready? SR is more than twice as long, and Epping Forest is already 11 minutes. Not to mention early Genesis albums are always in the 50+ minute range at the absolute capacity for vinyl records.


Who said anything about vinyl?!

I'm just playing fantasy album mash-up.  SEBTP is one of my all time favourite albums, but it isn't perfect due to TBOEF.  So it can't compete with (e.g.) The Human Equation, Weather Systems, Misplaced Childhood, The Road Of Bones, Images And Words... (for the same reason that Money spoils DSOTM)

But, if SEBTP had included Supper's Ready, and not TBOEF, then (in IMHO) it would probably be the best of the whole lot...

Smile

Fair. I had thought you meant you wished Genesis had saved SR for SEBTP and cut Epping Forest to make room for it.
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Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Not a Star Wars fan I take it? And sorry if that emoji is offensive. It was the first one I saw that accurately conveyed my confusion at someone saying Siberian Khatru is disco.


Nah, the smiley wasn't offensive (at least to me) as I don't consider SK disco as wellLOL

And OK, now I +/- get it (though I'm not familiar at all with Star Wars), but more via your username than the saga itself, since I don't know who or what porg is (it sounds like porc - hence my Pig smiley)Tongue. It's a weird play on words, than, I suppose??

BTW: confusion would be more like Confused than the Wacko - wghich seems more like whackiness to me. Wink
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Not a Star Wars fan I take it? And sorry if that emoji is offensive. It was the first one I saw that accurately conveyed my confusion at someone saying Siberian Khatru is disco.


Nah, the smiley wasn't offensive (at least to me) as I don't consider SK disco as wellLOL

And OK, now I +/- get it (though I'm not familiar at all with Star Wars), but more via your username than the saga itself, since I don't know who or what porg is (it sounds like porc - hence my Pig smiley)Tongue. It's a weird play on words, than, I suppose??

BTW: confusion would be more like Confused than the Wacko - wghich seems more like whackiness to me. Wink

Ah yes, that's the one I was looking for, thank you! And yeah, I just find it a funny little play on words since Star Wars has a creature called a Porg and that's so close to the word prog.
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The song is a bit wordy, but still a great piece of Prog. I’ve never met any Genesis fan that dislikes it though.
P.S. - I love Rutherford’s Bass tone - just a great, almost glassy Rickenbacker sound - Squire never got this tone.
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Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't feel badly, I quite enjoy "Time Table" on Foxtrot, which earns me great malice amongst Genesis fans! 

"Epping Forest" is decent, but not a masterpiece.  Tony Banks does some great synth leads on that one.


I never knew people were supposed to not like Time Table, I do find it rather beautiful.
 

that is indeed a beautiful song. Foxtrot is an album I don't find any fault with although Watcher Of The Skies tends to be the slightly controversial track for some reason.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't feel badly, I quite enjoy "Time Table" on Foxtrot, which earns me great malice amongst Genesis fans! 

"Epping Forest" is decent, but not a masterpiece.  Tony Banks does some great synth leads on that one.


I never knew people were supposed to not like Time Table, I do find it rather beautiful.
 

that is indeed a beautiful song. Foxtrot is an album I don't find any fault with although Watcher Of The Skies tends to be the slightly controversial track for some reason.


the A-side is rather flawed IMHO

Not a fan of Watcher (the intro last way too long), Friday is relatively good (but the band has yet to find its ground with those rock operas - Epping Forest will be much better), Timetable is really not good. Only Can Utility is ultra-great and I even find it superior to Supper, because it condenses everything they can do in less than 6 minutes.
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The real controversy are those people who rate the collins sung abortion above the best rock opera that Genesis produced. I often fantasise about digital and CD being invented in 1970...Then you have SEBTP....
DOWTMK..13:02..
IKWIL...6:09..
FOF..21:12..
BOEF...23:49..
TCS...16:00..
In fact when I retire and convert my double garage into a recording studio, I may start a project to extend my fave symphonic prog...its a good retirement plan to have...
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^ More Fool Me is a quaint little ditty. Sweet and innocent. How could you refer to it as a ‘Collins sung abortion’ ?? Bit harsh methinks.
And After the Ordeal is quite a lovely instrumental. I’d never ditch anything on SEBTP.
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More Fool Me prevents SEBTP from being the truly perfect prog gem many claim it to be, IMHO.

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I just dont get what's so offensively bad about More Fool Me
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I just dont get what's so offensively bad about More Fool Me

It is short and soon over, which is its saving grace. The same cannot be said for Epping Forest which drags on 5 or 6 minutes longer than its expiration date, hence its stench.
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I just dont get what's so offensively bad about More Fool Me

It is short and soon over, which is its saving grace. The same cannot be said for Epping Forest which drags on 5 or 6 minutes longer than its expiration date, hence its stench.


Not short enough, IMHO.

1- Even at the same length as (the much-better) For Absent Friends (1'30") it would still overstay its welcome by its entire duration.

2- MFM is totally out of context of the album's concept, which is about the collapse of the British Empire and the decadence of the English model.

3- musically, it's completely dire and dry (downright poor, I should be tempted to write), even when compared to the other less complex tracks (Wardrobe and Ordeal)

4- I'm not even sure Collins would find a spot for this MFM track on his 80's solo albums, however poor & suckish they would be.
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RE OP:  The music sucks.

I don't hear/am not interested in lyrics, thus I don't know what it's about (or particularly care). 
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