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Is Pink Floyd prog rock?

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Poll Question: Is Pink Floyd prog rock?
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dougmcauliffe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 15:43
Originally posted by Enchant X Enchant X wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Can we just please obliterate the mindset that prog needs to have odd times. f**ks sake! 
I believe prog does need some odd time signatures to be true prog not many but a few more than Pink Floyd demonstrate. Tongue

Ohhh ok got it,

So epitaph by King Crimson, not prog? Ok! Les Sinq Saisons by Harmonium isn't particularly overflowing with Odd times off the top of my head, not prog?

Allman Brothers Whipping Post, well hell, thats got an odd meter in the intro, its prog! All you need is love by the beatles has a few measures of 5 as well, that's all it takes I guess, its prog! Solisbury Hill by Peter Gabriel has some measures of 7 as well, certainly more progressive than pink floyd, band with several complex 10-20 minute epics with unconventional structure and instrumentation.

See how silly this mindset is. Anybody can write a song with odd times, as many as they want, but not many can push the boundaries and progress music. Floyd, most certainly did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 15:45
I don't think they sound as they sound.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 15:46
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

I don't think they sound as they sound.

Nice. Expand!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 16:25
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

"The term art rock has been employed to describe several works of Rock music developed right after the 1960s Psychedelic Rock explosion." [RYM]

Hard to put Floyd in this category since they are front and center as well as a downright canonical example of Psychedelic Rock, at least in the British version of Psychedelic Rock. This logically swoops KrautRock up in Art Rock too, btw.

"Ever since its beginnings, art rock has shared connections, musical ties and even presents apparent overlaps with Experimental Rock and Progressive Rock (eventually also bearing a relationship with styles like Art Pop, Glam Rock, Krautrock and Jazz-Rock). While art rock strives to find a level of complexity similar to the one present in these two affiliated genres, it generally features a mix of rock music that tends to follow certain Pop-based structures or patterns along with the aforementioned set of eclectic influences and certain degree of complexity and conceptuality, in contrast to the more classical/jazz-mimicking or inspired patterns of prog suites, or the more radical and angular experimental rock." [RYM].

Atom Heart Mother and Meddle are classical-inspired suites. True, there are more traditional song-based pieces the same albums. However, Harold the Barrel is on the same album as Fountain of Salmacis. Maybe Genesis isn't Prog either.


Genesis is and isn't Prog depending upon the song and album, I would posit. That said I would not consider an album not Prog just because it had a pop song on it, and one might say that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts....

I would and have argued that Pink Floyd fits different labels, both on the album, from track to track, and across the career. I think Pink Floyd made Psych, Space Rock, Art Rock, Prog Rock and more. While I think that Pink Floyd started as a very psychedelic band in the 60s, it became less so later on. If Art Rock is a phenomenon that grew out of the 60s psychedelic explosion, that would not preclude Pink Floyd from having developed in an art rock direction. I would describe Dark Side of the Moon as an Art Rock album, not Piper at the Gates of Dawn. I look at it on an album by album level, and RYM is specifically referring to Pink Floyd during a 70s stage of music in the article. I wouldn't describe The Final Cut as Psych.

I like labeling by the album, so I often having a problem calling a band just one thing or another for all of it (especially when the band is reasonably diverse). That creates a false dichotomy. To me Genesis and Pink Floyd made Prog and non-Prog music, but people quite often label bands by one genre or description despite diversity.

Earlier in this thread I wrote about Pink Floyd, "It's quite diverse and it depends on the album, period somewhat, and even on the piece of music... The first album is more Psych, the second is also primarily Psych and Experimental Rock, but I would say it could also be described as Progressive Rock. Ummagumma is Psych, Experimental and Prog I think. Atom Heart Mother, my favourite, I do consider to be quite Prog, and Meddle too. Dark Side of the Moon is art rock mostly to me. Wish you Were Here is Prog Art Rock to me, as is Animals. The Wall is more art rock/rock opera... Ultimately I would say yes and no... I'd need another option. It's not black and white to me, it's grey, and to me this "yes or no" presents too simple a dichotomy. It could be described as prog and not Prog, but I don't tend to think of bands as prog per se, I tend to think about specific music those bands made, and that music could be labelled in various ways. I might have added a "Yes and no, maybe so option". It depends quite a bit on how one defines/ describes progressive rock, as well as Progressive Rock (as a genre that need not be truly progressive) and how one parameterises music, as well as how much percentage one counts and many things. One could apply many labels to Pink Floyd across the discography, and even on individual albums."

I might be totally missing your points, and logic, cause I'm not really seeing it. As a sort of genre, some Krautrock band albums would be considered Art Rock, others probably not, among other labels they could be given. Krautrock is quite diverse and bands in Krautrock are often quite diverse (delve into various musical forms, and change over time). By the way, I'm wary about snipping bits and pieces often, because I think then you are liable to lose context.

Edited by Logan - April 24 2020 at 16:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote foregonillusions Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 17:00
Forget whether they played progressive rock (sometimes); I just wish they were interesting!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 17:16
Originally posted by foregonillusions foregonillusions wrote:

Forget whether they played progressive rock (sometimes); I just wish they were interesting!

you do know "interesting" is subjective 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 17:37
Originally posted by Mirakaze Mirakaze wrote:

I think they probably check enough boxes to be considered prog. I do take issue with them often being the first band one thinks of whenever prog is mentioned because I don't think they exemplify the core tenets of the genre as well as other classic 70s prog bands.

They are the first band most people think of when they think of prog but it's only because they are by far the most well known band who gets the prog label. Other bands were more proggy but I think PF were proggy enough. Regardless of what anyone thinks the fact is they are considered by most music websites to be  progressive rock. Sometimes they are called psych and sometimes space rock too. The early stuff was psych maybe but by the time of AHM they were definitely in the prog camp(imo). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 17:41
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Enchant X Enchant X wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Can we just please obliterate the mindset that prog needs to have odd times. f**ks sake! 
I believe prog does need some odd time signatures to be true prog not many but a few more than Pink Floyd demonstrate. Tongue

Ohhh ok got it,

So epitaph by King Crimson, not prog? Ok! Les Sinq Saisons by Harmonium isn't particularly overflowing with Odd times off the top of my head, not prog?

Allman Brothers Whipping Post, well hell, thats got an odd meter in the intro, its prog! All you need is love by the beatles has a few measures of 5 as well, that's all it takes I guess, its prog! Solisbury Hill by Peter Gabriel has some measures of 7 as well, certainly more progressive than pink floyd, band with several complex 10-20 minute epics with unconventional structure and instrumentation.

See how silly this mindset is. Anybody can write a song with odd times, as many as they want, but not many can push the boundaries and progress music. Floyd, most certainly did.

Although I agree with you Doug, some people think of them as experimental rather than prog and experimental is not necessarily prog(although I suppose it can be). But to think of PF as just a regular rock band? Really? Uh no. There has to be some category for their earlier progressive music at least. If not prog then what? Experimental might suffice for the studio part of Ummagumma but not much else. I think the problem is too many people are just thinking of their radio hits or maybe the fact that they are on the radio at all and so because of that they can't be prog. It's maybe the same reason some people don't consider Rush prog. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 17:48
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Can we just please obliterate the mindset that prog needs to have odd times. f**ks sake!†
I agree. Thereís so much Prog in 4/4 itís not funny.
Blondie did have odd metres, Kajagoogoo have odd metres, Devo have odd metres - are they Prog ??

Edited by Tom Ozric - April 24 2020 at 17:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VianaProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 18:22
Are you kidding me? Prog rock or art rock, what is the real difference? Somehow all are prog in a way or another. Prog is a very eclectic way to see rock music. Prog is a multitude of different ways to see  the great rock music that progresses. This is the reason why I love prog music. And this is the reason why that there are so many sub-genres of prog. This is the reason why this site exists.  So, definetelly they're prog, in their very own way, and they're so respected here. And don't tell me that they aren't complex in their own way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 18:52
Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

...
I also believe I would think of most krautrock as art rock rather than prog. But it seems to me that the definition of art rock is much more diffuse.

Hi,

I think the difference is what is not considered most these days, because too many folks are only voting on their favorite songs, and deciding on the OP based on one song so to speak.

"Krautrock" was not just "music" and it deserves to be considered "art rock" with one sad side to it ... when all those bands get listed as "art rock", most people won't bother listening to it anymore.

Why do I call is "art" ... because there was theater and film, and literature that was doing virtually the same thing as "krautrock" was doing, and no one went and called it "krautfilm", or "krauttheater", or "krautlit" ... but I like to give people an example ... the difference between Klaus Kinski and Damo Suzuki ... is NONE ... one had a camera stay on him until he fell down ... and the other had the microphone on until the whole thing died out.

The only sad side is that not enough people even give a damn about KK and what he did with Werner Herzog, who was one of the people that filmed AD2, btw ... not to mention that he ended up getting Popol Vuh music and made films out of them, so to speak ... I kinda doubt that Florian actually composed any music for him, as he was/is (Herzog) a visual artist and easily colors any music he comes across. That process, in itself is very "art'y".
... none of the hits, none of the time ... now try finding your own mirror/art! www.pedrosena.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 19:12
^ Kinski always played the Ďperfect madmaní......which he actually was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 19:43
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Can we just please obliterate the mindset that prog needs to have odd times. f**ks sake! 
I agree. Thereís so much Prog in 4/4 itís not funny.
Blondie did have odd metres, Kajagoogoo have odd metres, Devo have odd metres - are they Prog ??

Especially these days with all the crossover prog and more mainstream stuff that passes as prog. The bottom line is prog is a big umbrella that has enough room for a lot of different subgenres(this site itself should provide enough proof of that). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 20:53
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Can we just please obliterate the mindset that prog needs to have odd times. f**ks sake! 
I agree. Thereís so much Prog in 4/4 itís not funny.
Blondie did have odd metres, Kajagoogoo have odd metres, Devo have odd metres - are they Prog ??

"are they Prog ??"........no they are Devo!! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 21:05
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Can we just please obliterate the mindset that prog needs to have odd times. f**ks sake!†
I agree. Thereís so much Prog in 4/4 itís not funny.
Blondie did have odd metres, Kajagoogoo have odd metres, Devo have odd metres - are they Prog ??


"are they Prog ??"........no they are Devo!!†LOL
Good one !! Their first 2 albums are gold, especially Duty Now for the Future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 21:17
Here, skip to 5:45 (if you want to get to the relevant part right away). I thought of this since you guys mentioned Devo. ;) Unfortunately I wasn't able to embed it this time but the link definitely should work.



Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 24 2020 at 21:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 21:25
^ I watched that last year - I miss olí Frank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enchant X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 21:50
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Originally posted by Enchant X Enchant X wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Can we just please obliterate the mindset that prog needs to have odd times. f**ks sake! 
I believe prog does need some odd time signatures to be true prog not many but a few more than Pink Floyd demonstrate. Tongue

Ohhh ok got it,

So epitaph by King Crimson, not prog? Ok! Les Sinq Saisons by Harmonium isn't particularly overflowing with Odd times off the top of my head, not prog?

Allman Brothers Whipping Post, well hell, thats got an odd meter in the intro, its prog! All you need is love by the beatles has a few measures of 5 as well, that's all it takes I guess, its prog! Solisbury Hill by Peter Gabriel has some measures of 7 as well, certainly more progressive than pink floyd, band with several complex 10-20 minute epics with unconventional structure and instrumentation.

See how silly this mindset is. Anybody can write a song with odd times, as many as they want, but not many can push the boundaries and progress music. Floyd, most certainly did.

Although I agree with you Doug, some people think of them as experimental rather than prog and experimental is not necessarily prog(although I suppose it can be). But to think of PF as just a regular rock band? Really? Uh no. There has to be some category for their earlier progressive music at least. If not prog then what? Experimental might suffice for the studio part of Ummagumma but not much else. I think the problem is too many people are just thinking of their radio hits or maybe the fact that they are on the radio at all and so because of that they can't be prog. It's maybe the same reason some people don't consider Rush prog. 
no its not that ... I just believe pink floyd are a glorified blues band with progressive production values ...I own every Pink Floyd album I love them , but they never demonstrate complex music, glorified blues with progressive production values.  Tongue
also regarding King Crimson 21st schizoid man makes that a progressive rock album .. the song epitaph makes it s symphonic prog album. Moonchild makes it experimental prog and Court of The Crimson King Makes it symphonic prog with some time signature values, I talk to the wind shows they can write simple songs with great beauty...I know my stuff I know what I`m talking about been into prog for over 40 years. We will have to agree to disagree on this one with all due respect. Tongue
If you looked pink floyd in the eye and asked them if they were strictly a progressive rock band I think they would laugh at you , Floyd are many things to many people but the heart of Floyd is soul and blues with some mild symphonic attributes IMO. Smile

 Rush were very progressive from Caress of Steel to Signals BTW outside of this range Rush were more art Rock with one or two progressive songs thrown in on each album to show they still had  that in their agenda. Tongue

I seriously think because I`m a drummer and percussionist my value of prog is based on what I`m challenged to play or emulate ... pink floyd is a cakewalk. King Crimson is a nightmare .. and Rush is a challenge but doable....just, but I really have to concentrate. 
The Band I love to drum along with most that suits my style is Kansas, I'm comfortable playing Kansas and still challenged


Edited by Enchant X - April 25 2020 at 01:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 22:32
So Set the Controls for the Heart Of the Sun is a glorified bluesy, jammed-out pentatonic Pop/Rock song.
Man, Slayer must be a Pop band then - you know - verse/chorus/verse/solo 4/4 short song format .......
😐
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enchant X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 22:40
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

So Set the Controls for the Heart Of the Sun is a glorified bluesy, jammed-out pentatonic Pop/Rock song.
Man, Slayer must be a Pop band then - you know - verse/chorus/verse/solo 4/4 short song format .......
😐
it was acid driven psychedelic rock ..experimental at best ... hardly prog. prog means you are pushing boundaries in a straight mind without the need for drugs to enjoy it, or make sense of it. Wink

Edited by Enchant X - April 24 2020 at 22:41
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