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How can you explain all those RPI one-shot?

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softandwet View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 28 2020 at 15:15
Is there some reason of any kind that explain all those bands that just formed, made one (or two) album, and disbanded?

Exemples : Museo Rosenbach, Maxophone, Il Balleto Di Bronzo, Osanna, Locanda Delle Fate, Metamorfosi,etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2020 at 15:28
Actually most of the bands you just listed recorded at least two although in some cases not until 20 or 30 years later(if not more). Osanna had at least four studio albums though.

Regardless, the reason imo probably had to do with a lack of funds, resources and promotion. A few Italian bands like PFM, Le Orme, Area, Banco, New Trolls, Goblin and maybe a few others were able to sustain themselves. Maybe the label had something to do with it also. If they were on a major label(or at least not doing it all by themselves)then they probably had the necessary support to make a second album(or third album etc). Although it might have seemed more common in Italy the truth is there were one shot bands(or two shot)in most countries. I can think of several from the US for example. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - April 28 2020 at 15:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote softandwet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2020 at 15:34
And are there actually more band if this kind in Italy or is it just that those from other countries have been forgotten? And so, why do we remember particularly the ones that came out in Italy, is there something special with them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2020 at 16:22
Originally posted by softandwet softandwet wrote:

And are there actually more band if this kind in Italy or is it just that those from other countries have been forgotten? And so, why do we remember particularly the ones that came out in Italy, is there something special with them?

no..  per capitipa.. and hell.. in hard numbers no country producted more prog rock than Italy.  To paraphase a famous axiom.. few heard the Velvet Underground but all that did went out and started a band.

In Italy most everyone heard ELP.. and all of them went on to start prog bands.  One of the things many don't realize was it was ELP and their complete and utter rockerization ( Micky 2006) of classical music. not the bands that were particularly popular there and made their livings touring there.. that sprung that movement it was them.

Italy was completely different than other countries.. international touring and striking it big in America wasn't happening.. and a large domestic festival circuit existed where they all could play. and competed.. musically.. against each other and inspired each other to greater heights

The country.. already a hot bed of music.. totally went apesh*t over prog.. even groups like f**king I Pooh did prog albums. .and damn good ones btw.. along with the old standby of Italian music.. the Cantautori.. started doing prog albums..

thus the answer to your original question about all the one shots

in a word..

oversaturation... 


Edited by micky - April 28 2020 at 16:24
[QUOTE=Nogbad_The_Bad]Christ you talk a lot of crap.[/QUOTE]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2020 at 16:28
You also have to understand that the members of those bands were for the most part very young, and when you are very young you get easily bored, and go on to do something else. This is what happened to some members of Museo Rosenbach and Semiramis, for instance. Others went on very long breaks when prog stopped being relevant, and reformed in recent years. Others just dropped off the radar. In many ways, it was no different from what happened to many lower-tier British bands. The big names survived - even changing their music substantially, as Genesis did - the lesser-known names fell into obscurity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeuhl1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2020 at 18:56
I would agree with over saturation. There just wasn't enough lire to fund such a diverse explosion of talent within the country. Labels popped up and went out of business quickly on shoestring budgets. Some labels took a flyer on a genre of music they'd never promoted and didn't know how to do it correctly. Major labels needed instant results or the band was a write off. Major labels in Italy had a schizophrenic attitude towards prog bands-not sure how to promote them and then get mad at the band when tours and chart toppers didn't come quickly enough.

The astounding level of talent on display definitely did come from competitiveness as Micky points out. Major festivals in most regions were often set up as competitions, which meant either trying to invent more inventive takes on the current trends, or forming a new band and reinventing themselves on another higher level, to try to win These options were always on the table-reshuffling the deck as it were.
To answer the question "is there something special with them?" : the answer is definitely yes. Italy produced more talented prog bands in larger numbers in a five years span than any country on the planet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2020 at 19:09
How about an explanation for all of them coming back in the 2010s to give us another LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2020 at 19:29
Germany can give Italy a run for its money as far as one-offs go.  But yes they both have a lot and I like a lot of what they have
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manuel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2020 at 08:19
I don't know much about the music industry in Italy, but my guess is that it must have influenced somehow this particular issue. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NotAProghead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2020 at 17:30
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

How about an explanation for all of them coming back in the 2010s to give us another LOL

Actually comebacks began earlier, in the 2000s. CD reissues since the 90s, internet, then streaming etc helped people in Italy and other countries to discover obscure RPI albums. I think new wave of interest to "buried trasures" made comebacks possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2020 at 17:54
Re: Comeback albums in the 2000s - I think many of these bands didnt realise how much their classic records of the 70s were loved on an international scale. With the CD Reissues selling in reasonable quantities, most likely inspired these bands to get together and have another bash. And most succeeded, I tell ya !

Edited by Tom Ozric - April 29 2020 at 17:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote micky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 29 2020 at 20:21
Originally posted by zeuhl1 zeuhl1 wrote:

I would agree with over saturation. There just wasn't enough lire to fund such a diverse explosion of talent within the country. Labels popped up and went out of business quickly on shoestring budgets. Some labels took a flyer on a genre of music they'd never promoted and didn't know how to do it correctly. Major labels needed instant results or the band was a write off. Major labels in Italy had a schizophrenic attitude towards prog bands-not sure how to promote them and then get mad at the band when tours and chart toppers didn't come quickly enough.

The astounding level of talent on display definitely did come from competitiveness as Micky points out. Major festivals in most regions were often set up as competitions, which meant either trying to invent more inventive takes on the current trends, or forming a new band and reinventing themselves on another higher level, to try to win These options were always on the table-reshuffling the deck as it were.
To answer the question "is there something special with them?" : the answer is definitely yes. Italy produced more talented prog bands in larger numbers in a five years span than any country on the planet.

nice post.. and was that you that did that review of Palepoli the other day? Suppose it was.  I read that with great intererest.  Very good review.. of an extremely difficult album to review.  That wasn't just a top 5 Italian album. It was a top 10 alltime prog album IMO. Nice job. Reviews like that back in the day were a sure way to get oneself recruited to one of my teams.  Reviews like that were exactly what I looked for in recruiting team members. While the old AR team was a first rate band of ass kickers and finger breakers .. my RPI team had some of the best reviewers this site had. That was on purpose I suppoe. I thought that was really important to help promote those bands and albums.

look forward to seeing some more reviews from you.. have a clappie  Clap and a 11.0 ABV Mick salute Beer.... 
[QUOTE=Nogbad_The_Bad]Christ you talk a lot of crap.[/QUOTE]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2020 at 03:24
Most creative associations are at their most potent and prolific at the outset and this almost inevitably diminishes given sufficient time. It's also readily apparent that popular music has always been an incredibly volatile and fickle marketplace. It strikes me that very few of the RPI bands stuck around long enough to end up putting out their own Love Beaches, Civilians, Unions, Under Wraps, (even Suonare Suonares Shocked)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote softandwet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2020 at 05:55
^Locande Delle Fate almost did it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2020 at 06:53
^ I'm not familiar with them so you're a better judge than I
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2020 at 07:34
Originally posted by zeuhl1 zeuhl1 wrote:

I would agree with over saturation. There just wasn't enough lire to fund such a diverse explosion of talent within the country. 
...

Hi,

I'm not sure that we will all agree on this ... Italian culture, sometimes is centered around music, and they have always had a large number of artists and a LOT of music all the time, all the way to OPERA. The only places where you will not find "music" is in Pasolini and Fellini ... (jokeykindofjoke!) but the rest was always there, and I am not sure that many of those bands were hoping or expecting to do a lot more than what they were already doing locally ... the fact that some mouse-sized label brought out a band or two did not state that these were going to get bigger or better ... I think they hoped something happened, but I'm inclined to believe that too many of them ...stayed local ... it didn't happen.

I would say that in Brazil, in the late 60's and early 70's you had the same thing, only for it to die out ... waiting for the commercial loop to arrive which it would in a big city, but would never reach out for a smaller city ... why? easy! ... in the big city with one radio station you can sell quite a few more albums than you would on a band that is not local and you can not see. The local stations would not (usually -- same in America) take any interest in the smaller bands, including the local ones!

Originally posted by zeuhl1 zeuhl1 wrote:

...
The astounding level of talent on display definitely did come from competitiveness as Micky points out. Major festivals in most regions were often set up as competitions, which meant either trying to invent more inventive takes on the current trends, or forming a new band and reinventing themselves on another higher level, to try to win ...

First I've heard of these competitions but I accept the possibility and it is a really good way to get many different towns in one area to show up for a party.

I think the "competition" side of things is more good natured fun, than otherwise ... my interpretation is different ... TODAY'S MUSIC IS ELECTRIC (even 50 years ago!) ... thus a lot of the things that you heard was the first, second or third piece of music that some of the kids learnt in school, and of course, that would be something classical ... I seriously doubt that 5 bands in one spot would do the same piece of classical music to see who could do it better ... there was way too much variety in Italian music for that to happen, and the pop music market in that country was (and is) huge.

But thinking that PFM was competing with BANCO is weird, and not likely ... I think that Vittorio would tell you immediately that their only competition was getting out of bed to see who could sing first, or play the first note of something new, about a spider and a fly in the corner of the ceiling! I think that PFM was probably more record company controlled than BANCO and the results were uneven ... the first albums translated were not as good as the original ones in Italian, but it almost worked for LE ORME ... surprisingly enough, although I would still favor the Italian version of FELONA E SORONA.

Originally posted by zeuhl1 zeuhl1 wrote:

...
To answer the question "is there something special with them?" : the answer is definitely yes. Italy produced more talented prog bands in larger numbers in a five years span than any country on the planet. 

I am not sure this is true ... many smaller countries around them also had music, though we tend to think of it as traditional because of their roots and thus not used for interpretation as a rock band ... and into a world market. This was the toughest side of SPAIN, who also has an incredible amount of music that is HIGHLY DIFFERENT depending where you are from, as if it were 3 or 4 different countries ... and this made the inclusion of a lot of rock bands at the time very difficult even though it kinda looked like that the only groups that were being selected and heard were the ones that sounded like YES and SUPERTRAMP, which was a terrible decision and horrible choice, but some of their groups did really well. SPAIN probably had more groups than ITALY ... as they also have had a massive music history, even though most of that history was "popular music" and did not feature some grand names like Italian music had in classical. But no one was going to listen to an acoustic band that could easily sound like YES if it was electrified ... and I think that was more to do with us as fans, than anything else ... we wanted the electric stuff that had RECOGNIZABLE elements in it for our ears ... and SPAIN has always been vehemently independent in that area.

The US, if you break it down into the 5 major areas in music (NY, LA-SF, CHICAGO, DETROIT and NO) ... and this is not to discount the ugly radio wars in MEMPHIS ... could/should/would normally be considered 6 different countries ... and if we kinda divide it like that ... NY had the most around the world, and then probably SF-LA would be next in the chart.

A really difficult OP to discuss because no 2 countries are the same, and in the case of the USA, it's almost like 5 or 6 different countries!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeuhl1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2020 at 13:21
Hi micky-thanks for the response and kind words!
Hi moshkito-Great analysis!
Radio is a tricky beast. Payola is still alive despite the scandals in the 50's in the States, and seems to still be the unspoken rule worldwide (barring the college/freeform/independent stations that are a dying breed)

For the most part, my post was referring to the golden age of prog bands of the first half of the seventies. Spanish prog bands seemed to be concentrated more in the second half of the seventies with a goodly amount of them showing Italian influences. You are correct in that both Italian and Spanish prog bands integrated traditional music into their rock arrangements, giving them individualized ethnic flavours.  Some of this makes the music insular to the country, or as you point out, to a particular region. This would make it harder to break out of your own region to go countrywide...never mind worldwide.
Brazil is a whole other kettle of fish as they produced a ton of bands starting in the beat era, and had a wide variety of bands that mutated into prog bands from different starting points. But for some reason, likely the lack of any distribution beyond the borders, they didn't get any attention in the States, UK or Europe. It didn't help that the government would threaten to lock up any bands they viewed as a threat.

In the States, with 5-6 times as many people as Italy, there were far fewer prog bands back in the day. I guess this is what I meant by Italy producing more prog bands than any other country in that era. Many of the better but still unknown US prog bands were forced to put their record out as 'vanity projects' by funding their own release and putting it out themselves, not even getting signed to a tiny independent label.

In the early 70's in Italian competitions you are right, it was likely more friendly competition between bands. They wouldn't be trying to outdo each other on the same piece of course, but would look to jump to a 'higher level' so to speak-new gear, larger soundsystem, new synths, jaw dropping arrangements..that kind of stuff. But these competitions were definitely taken more seriously than folks in the States would picture, as they often had long roots going years back, and the winners would be thrust up the ladder to the next rung-getting signed, open for Genesis (or on a smaller level, getting to open for Banco or PFM). Banco and PFM had already graduated past the competition stage by 1972-though PFM and Osanna went head to head at a festival in 1971.

This is by no means a statement that Italy produced better prog music than any other country, but by sheer prolific output in a five year window, most definitely produced the most.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2020 at 07:21
Originally posted by zeuhl1 zeuhl1 wrote:

I would agree with over saturation. There just wasn't enough lire to fund such a diverse explosion of talent within the country. Labels popped up and went out of business quickly on shoestring budgets. Some labels took a flyer on a genre of music they'd never promoted and didn't know how to do it correctly. Major labels needed instant results or the band was a write off. Major labels in Italy had a schizophrenic attitude towards prog bands-not sure how to promote them and then get mad at the band when tours and chart toppers didn't come quickly enough.

The astounding level of talent on display definitely did come from competitiveness as Micky points out. Major festivals in most regions were often set up as competitions, which meant either trying to invent more inventive takes on the current trends, or forming a new band and reinventing themselves on another higher level, to try to win These options were always on the table-reshuffling the deck as it were.
To answer the question "is there something special with them?" : the answer is definitely yes. Italy produced more talented prog bands in larger numbers in a five years span than any country on the planet.
Competitions were actually just the promise of being signed by a major, something that might have happened even for who didn't win. Mainstream stuff usually. Don't forget that Italy in the 70s had a lot of politics (and violence, too) which conditioned the whole country. Many artists were politically active, think to Area and Stormy Six as example. For this reason many of them preferred to remain in the independent circuit, playing at events like the "Parco Lambro" or in small venues. The political contents of the lyrics contributed in their emargination from the media. The first non-statal TV channel in Italy appeared in 1978 and the statal TV was subject to censorship influenced by the dominant Christian-Democratic party and the Catholic church. 
So it didn't help and many disbanded just because the members found a "regular" job. My daughter's father-in-law was drummer in a "one-shot" prog band and currently works in a hospital as doctor. Just one of the many. I remember also a software specialist who was keyboardist in a short lived flower-power band "Flora Fauna e Cemento" which released a couple of singles in the early 70s. 
Most of them, anyway, turned to mainstream, like Delirium's Ivano Fossati, the former Semiramis Michele Zarrillo who is currently a sort of pop star.  Alan Sorrenti had a couple of pop hits before disappearing and New Trolls tried to survive imitating the Bee Gees. 
But prog didn't stop. Nowadays there's an enormous number of prog bands and solo artists in all the subgenres. Still they don't make a lot of money, but Universal Totem Orchestra, to say one, is in my opinion one of the best Zeuhl bands currently active. Just to name one.    
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