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PA's Top Albums from the 60s & 70s

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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2020 at 08:36
A solid list...........,I don't know about several of the RPI things...never warmed up to it ,and Kind Of Blue is simply not prog rock, and as Richard said sneak in the  ELP debut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 01:56
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

No 30 is the only one I have an issue with (surprise surprise) . Sneak in the ELP debut album and then you have it although of course that is still behind a lot of other albums on the PA 100. Also the UK debut album should be represented as that was a genuine go at progression at the back end of the seventies although for some reason its ranked quite low on PA (anomaly?).

Agreed on all counts. I don't understand the loyalty to Danger Money (or whatever it's called) but the original UK album is a real sonic treat, start to finish--and a five star album, IMnotsoHO.
 

I actually love Danger Money . 3 piece format and Bozzio does the powerhouse drummer thing as well as anyone. However the debut though is more 'progressive' as it blends fusion and symphonic. I checked and its only the 6th ranked 1978 album which is a little strange. Perhaps it's just too eclectic musically for many conservative music tastes. I also suspect it failed to reach it's target audience which was too hung up on ELP, Yes and Genesis, even in 1978 when things were changing rapidly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote miamiscot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 09:55
Miles Davis is not Prog!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 11:09
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Miles Davis is not Prog!!!

Aye....seconded...neither is fecking talking heads...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 12:28
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Miles Davis is not Prog!!!

Aye....seconded...neither is fecking talking heads...
 
"Thirded." Neither are The Police. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 12:50
Still, at least IMO, the list makes as much sense as the ratings on Metacritic. It's pointless. The thing about reading reviews is to have some context. Like, what kinda music the reviewer likes, their style of rating etc. If you throw all that away and leave just the collective numebrs, there's just that. A meaningless number.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geekfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 23:03
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

As of this day, 26 May 2020, ProgArchives' database rates the following 30 albums as the Top Albums of the Opening Decades of "progressive rock music," the 1960s and 1970s:

1. Yes – Close to the Edge

2. Genesis – Selling England by the Pound

3. Pink Floyd – Wish You Were Here

4. King Crimson – In the Court of the Crimson King

5. Jethro Tull – Thick as a Brick

6. Pink Floyd – Dark Side of the Moon

7. Genesis - Foxtrot

8. King Crimson - Red

9. Pink Floyd - Animals

10. Van Der Graaf Generator - Godbluff

11. Yes - Fragile

12. Genesis – Nursery Cryme

13. Van Der Graaf Generator – Pawn Hearts

14. King Crimson – Larks’ Tongues in Aspic

15. Camel - MIrage

16. Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) – Per un amico

17. Camel - Moonmadness

18. Yes - Relayer

19. Rush – Hemispheres

20. Jethro Tull - Aqualung

21. Banco del Mutuo Soccorso - Darwin!

22. Gentle Giant - In a Glass House

23. Banco del Mutuo Soccorso – Io sono nato libero

24. Harmonium – Si on avait besoin d’une cinquième saison

25. Frank Zappa – Hot Rats

26. Rush - A Farewell to Kings

27. Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) – Storia di un minuto

28. Genesis – The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

29. Pink Floyd - Meddle

30. Miles Davis – Kind of Blue (1959)


What do you think of this list?

How does it compare to your own list of Prog's first two decades?

Are these the greatest musical contributions progressive rock music has ever made?

Has time diminished their lustre and genius?

Are modern musical artists just w**kers in comparison?
 
 




Solid list I would add ELP debut and VDGG Pawn Hearts 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 03:15
^

13. Van Der Graaf Generator – Pawn Hearts


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 03:51
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Miles Davis is not Prog!!!

Aye....seconded...neither is fecking talking heads...
 
"Thirded." Neither are The Police. Smile

Hi,

It is "Prog" in the sense that its creativity is quite out there, and not stuck on a beat or form. However, it ain't "Prog" just because it doesn't have the RW organ, or ELP keyboards, or a CS bass?

C'mon ... "Prog" is about newer music and its inventive flow ... and Miles deserves to be mentioned, however it needs to be placed within a "jazz" context, not a rock music context.

But cold day in heck that jazz will even consider a term like "Progressive" or "Prog".

Creativity is left handed, right handed, upper handed and under handed ... and us simply saying that only a left handed counts, in the end, we are ... can't even put words on it, but after a while it's hard to feel that this is about "creativity", instead of a cookie cutter format of some kind ... at least, Miles did not exactly have a format for us to follow ... and many of us wish that more rock music did that and was not afraid of nit-pickers that only like melody and hate the rest of music!


Edited by moshkito - May 30 2020 at 03:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 04:12
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Miles Davis is not Prog!!!

Aye....seconded...neither is fecking talking heads...

 
"Thirded." Neither are The Police. Smile


Hi,

It is "Prog" in the sense that its creativity is quite out there, and not stuck on a beat or form. However, it ain't "Prog" just because it doesn't have the RW organ, or ELP keyboards, or a CS bass?

C'mon ... "Prog" is about newer music and its inventive flow ... and Miles deserves to be mentioned, however it needs to be placed within a "jazz" context, not a rock music context.

But cold day in heck that jazz will even consider a term like "Progressive" or "Prog".

Creativity is left handed, right handed, upper handed and under handed ... and us simply saying that only a left handed counts, in the end, we are ... can't even put words on it, but after a while it's hard to feel that this is about "creativity", instead of a cookie cutter format of some kind ... at least, Miles did not exactly have a format for us to follow ... and many of us wish that more rock music did that and was not afraid of nit-pickers that only like melody and hate the rest of music!


Er...OK EVERY BAND who ever performed is prog....scrap this site immediately....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 20:08
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Miles Davis--in all his dozen or so incarnations. But, so long as PA refuses to exclude Miles's pre-In a Silent Way albums from its database (whatever happened to Max's "JazzArchives" site?) I will continue to include his albums as posted just to pour salt on the wound!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 20:11
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:


Thanks. 
I think very few users would have a list that matches the PA list based on weighted averages. Its just that once that top layer of the most widely distributed artists (the big 5 if you will) is passed, the level of familiarity drops off rather precipitously. I honestly don't see many of the artists on my list competing in any obscurity contests, but they are just never going to attain the exposure of that handful of major prog artist.

In light of your focus on keeping the list in a one album per artist I decided to generate the same PA top 30 with that criteria in mind. Also, kept the included years starting at 1960 so there is no fudging to include Kind of Blue  

1. Yes – Close to the Edge

2. Genesis – Selling England by the Pound

3. Pink Floyd – Wish You Were Here

4. King Crimson – In the Court of the Crimson King

5. Jethro Tull – Thick as a Brick

6. Van Der Graaf Generator - Godbluff

7. Camel - Mirage

8. Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM) – Per un amico

9. Rush – Hemispheres

10. Banco del Mutuo Soccorso - Darwin!

11. Gentle Giant - In a Glass House

12. Harmonium – Si on avait besoin d’une cinquième saison

13. Frank Zappa – Hot Rats

14. Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds Of Fire

15. Supertramp - Crime Of The Century

16. Renaissance -Scheherazade And Other Stories

17. Mike Oldfield - Ommadawn

18. Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra

19. Peter Hammill - The Silent Corner And The Empty Stage

20. Magma - Mekanïk Destruktïw Kommandöh

21. Robert Wyatt - Rock Bottom

22. Emerson Lake & Palmer - Emerson Lake & Palmer

23. Steve Hackett - Voyage Of The Acolyte

24. Hatfield And The North - Hatfield And The North

25. Miles Davis - In A Silent Way

26. Return To Forever - Romantic Warrior

27. Khan - Space Shanty

28. Gong - Radio Gnome Invisible Vol. 3 - You

29. Tangerine Dream - Rubycon

30. Area - Arbeit Macht Frei

Very interesting how that spices the list up. Now there is a heck of a lot more albums that match my list.  Canterbury bands really get represented. And some of these that turn out to be the highest rated of each particular band are surprising. And there's that pesky old Miles Davis making an appearance to keep everyone's dander up. 


Fun exercise.

I LOVE your perspective, Ian! Very refreshing and exciting! Perhaps this is the way to go!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tapfret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 22:38
^Honestly, Moshkito was the catalyst for keeping it to one album per band. I just ran the report and kicked out all the repeats. It is definitely nice to see some of the 2nd tier bands. 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 22:48
Already somebodies mentioned all the Kraut-albums missing on the list, but not also any Canterbury classics and really no Magma, Procol, Moodies, Traffic or Family-albums! Instead too many Italian prog albums to my personal opinion, I just haven´t ever understand what´s so great in Italian prog.

My list:
1. Wigwam: Fairyport
2. Pink Floyd: Atom Heart Mother
3. King Crimson: Court
4. Jethro Tull: Thick as A Brick
5. Family: Music In a Doll´s House
6. Traffic: Mr. Fantasy
7. Magma: s/t
8. Faust: Faust IV
9. Comus: First Utterance
10. Can: Tago-Mago
11. Caravan: s/t
12. Yes: Fragile
13. Genesis: the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
14. Procol Harum: Shine On Brightly
15. the Moody Blues: In Search Of Lost Chord
16. Tasavallan Presidentti: Lambert Land
17. Haikara: Geafar
18. Kevin Ayers: Whatevershebringswesing
19. Roy Harper: Lifemask
20. The Mother Of Invention: We´re Only In It For the Money
21. Van Der Graaf Generator: Pawn Hearts
22. Colosseum: Valentyne Suite
23. Amon Düül II: Tanz Der Lemminge
24. Soft Machine: Volume Two
25. Arco Iris: Agitor Lucens V
26. Rush: Hemispheres
27. Harmonium: Si On Avait...
28. Samla Mammas Manna: Måltid
29. Kalevala: People No Names
30. Los Jaivas: Cancion Del Sur

And these all are masterpieces to me!


Edited by Mortte - May 30 2020 at 23:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2020 at 03:18
Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Already somebodies mentioned all the Kraut-albums missing on the list, but not also any Canterbury classics and really no Magma, Procol, Moodies, Traffic or Family-albums! Instead too many Italian prog albums to my personal opinion, I just haven´t ever understand what´s so great in Italian prog.

My list:
1. Wigwam: Fairyport
2. Pink Floyd: Atom Heart Mother
3. King Crimson: Court
4. Jethro Tull: Thick as A Brick
5. Family: Music In a Doll´s House
6. Traffic: Mr. Fantasy
7. Magma: s/t
8. Faust: Faust IV
9. Comus: First Utterance
10. Can: Tago-Mago
11. Caravan: s/t
12. Yes: Fragile
13. Genesis: the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
14. Procol Harum: Shine On Brightly
15. the Moody Blues: In Search Of Lost Chord
16. Tasavallan Presidentti: Lambert Land
17. Haikara: Geafar
18. Kevin Ayers: Whatevershebringswesing
19. Roy Harper: Lifemask
20. The Mother Of Invention: We´re Only In It For the Money
21. Van Der Graaf Generator: Pawn Hearts
22. Colosseum: Valentyne Suite
23. Amon Düül II: Tanz Der Lemminge
24. Soft Machine: Volume Two
25. Arco Iris: Agitor Lucens V
26. Rush: Hemispheres
27. Harmonium: Si On Avait...
28. Samla Mammas Manna: Måltid
29. Kalevala: People No Names
30. Los Jaivas: Cancion Del Sur

And these all are masterpieces to me!
 

^ PFM really , and then its the first 3 or 4 albums only

after that it's a lot of keyboard/symphonic prog really that is good but not as good as ELP , Rick Wakeman, Trace and a good few others in my opinion although a lot of it is decent neverthless. If you want ELP without the bombast then there is a lot of good stuff.

Bold list although Pawn Hearts is probably the only one that would make my list whether sticking to one album per artist rule or not.

Btw have you heard the Aphrodite's Child album 666?  I do feel that album is too often overlooked and for the life of my I'll never understand why.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:21
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


Btw have you heard the Aphrodite's Child album 666?  I do feel that album is too often overlooked and for the life of my I'll never understand why.

Yes, I have listened it through 5-6 times. Not bad, but not as great as the albums I listed IMO.

I think there is just so much overlooking of the sixties-seventies great music these days, people just like to listen their few Zeppelin albums over & over again.


Edited by Mortte - May 31 2020 at 06:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:28
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

....
Er...OK EVERY BAND who ever performed is prog....scrap this site immediately....

Hi,

It has nothing to do with the website, unless you feel that it is the site's fault that you and I are here, which it isn't!

The only concern, and it just shows where you stand, is that your definition of "prog" and "progressive" is more about your favorites than it is about a reality in the music ... so go ahead and call yourself "progressive" ... I have 47 years of pushing this music with me, and you can't say anything about my trip ... except that you don't believe it because it is not showing the RW keyboards, the CS bass, or the bullmerde drums on it, simply because it is in the "definition" that those must be there.

For your information music has been in a "progressive" mode for at least 500 years ... but your knowledge is limited to a couple of days in that equation. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:31
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

...

I LOVE your perspective, Ian! Very refreshing and exciting! Perhaps this is the way to go!


Hi,

As do I, however, if you go back to the start of the thread I was the one that asked for 30 bands, not albums.

AND THANK YOU TAP ...

I'm not one for these kinds of lists as there are too many things I love dearly that won't make it to the list ... and I find it best to respect the music, by not suggesting that one thing is better than another!

They are all great ... and I like the idea of giving other artists a lot more respect that they deserve and are not getting in a kid's like poll!


Edited by moshkito - May 31 2020 at 06:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:43
Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

... Instead too many Italian prog albums to my personal opinion, I just haven´t ever understand what´s so great in Italian prog.
...

Hi,

To my ears, a lot of "Italian" prog has its roots in classical music, if we are to look at some of the compositions as a composition, and not a rock song in three or four parts only.

And a lot of these bands did bits and pieces of classical music here and there, to show for it, and I think this was a big finger in the sky to the elder statesmen that would not hire these kids to an orchestra or did anything more original than another revival of a Verdi or Puccini opera ... sort of like NY redoing yet another revival of the poopiest musical you can think of -- and then even try to insult your intelligence by inserting a famous pop star to get more tickets sold ... and of course, it crashed ... fast!

BANCO, for example, without mentioning the words, in composition style is extremely classical, and NOT given to just doing a rock song for the radio ... this was about what they saw, not anything else, and even though many of us loved Giacomo and his wonderful operatic voice, guess what ... it was not only Giacomo ... Vittorio's version of the band in their last album is magnificent ... but won't get any kind of an ear here, because people have to have the RW keyboards, the KE pyrotechnics, the CS bass, and the poorest drumming this side of BB.

The things from Italy that try to copy the "standard" modes of music, usually do not go very far, which tells you that there is a solid appreciation for original music over there ... not a copy of the original hits with the same keyboards and bass ... reminds me of the opening to "The World Became The World" album ... when they ripped it to the max ... that would have been their sort of tip of the hat to the big 5, and then over and out ... their music and first albums were magnificent and deserved the accolades it got ... however just calling it "progressive" this and that ... takes away the most important factor of enjoying music, specially in this case ... it is totally outstanding material and beautifully written and the proof is that 45 years later we are still playing it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2020 at 06:55
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

...
after that it's a lot of keyboard/symphonic prog really that is good but not as good as ELP , Rick Wakeman, Trace and a good few others in my opinion although a lot of it is decent neverthless. 
...
Btw have you heard the Aphrodite's Child album 666?  I do feel that album is too often overlooked and for the life of my I'll never understand why.


Hi,

It is a nice list, but I think part of the problem with it is exactly what you mention ... "not as good as..." which tends to suggest that no one can create music like those folks did ... of course not ... but the instruments are pretty much the same the world over, so some sounds will also appear elsewhere! This is the main reason why I do not compare anyone to RW of KE, or any other keyboard player out there ... it doesn't say anything about the creativity that some of these other folks put together!

AC ... my sisters had been in Europe in 1968 and such, and they brought home the two AC albums, and I had already heard and knew well (even before the 666 album ... which sent me after all the Irene Pappas films I could find!!!) way before I got into the music that became known as "progressive" ... around 1972 and a half or so ... when in one day, I ended up hearing over 10 bands (mostly on the Harvest label, btw) and a year later the same label had stuff out from Europe just as good and great!

So for me, I had already seen the Beatles and Rolling Stones fame thing, and I didn't like it ... it was like they could do anything they wanted and everyone would think it was great ... and some of it wasn't, specially the RS. And when a couple of band hit it big in America ... gads ... I already had YES's first 2 albums, I already had The Nice's albums ... and the new things ... were just that ... the new things! To me, it was a natural progression for those artists ... not some sort of seminal artistic this and that ... because I could not compare a lot of this music to 40K books and history of Portuguese, Brazilian and Spanish Literature ... and its' like saying that only Don Quixote is worth it, and the rest is just merde ... and it is not true at all, and all one is saying is ... they don't know anything about the rest!

And I, don't like to use that parallel with folks here, because they have a lot of knowledge in a lot of music, that even you and I don't. But the cookie cutter thing, really hurts what "progressive music" is meant to be, specially for us elders ... we should not be saying ... sounds like ... 
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