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King Crimson - "Islands" (1971); Thoughts?
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Machinemessiah View Drop Down
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< 
In my case Islands was one of the lasts I met.

I like it..  a lot.  Don't listen to it that often, but sure is an exotic jewel in the Crimson crown..  a fine one, and a very welcomed too (imo) ...and I think it also contributes as a great asset to the 'eclectic' part on PA's KC classification.

Agree with lazland on the last track being the highlight on the gig last October in Santiago too.  Beer

1st. track's my best..  ideal for a 'session' , outdoors.. w/friends ..or not..  (hell, all those chimes...)


And SteveG..  I like the cover too!  LOL




Edited by Machinemessiah - July 11 2020 at 20:22
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I like "Islands" more than the "Lizard" album, although it's still only a three-star album for me. "Formentera Lady" is my favourite track from the album.
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Actually, the best part of this album is what the guests are doing with and around Mel Collins (Harry Miller, Tippett, Charig, Robin Miller). The A-side is relatively good , but the flipside is reallyweak, IMHO. When a teen, I loved Prelude, but nowadays, I find it embarrassing... despite being used as the theme for the Bigas Luna film of Son De Mar .

Let's face it, the Island line-up was inferior to the Lizard line-up (that never really happened), but at least the Wallace collection line-up Wink had the merit to exist for a while. Fripp, Collins and Sinfield are equal to themselves (though I'd say that Sinfield's lyrics were even more impenetrable on Islands), but McCullough was a better drummer than Wallace and Haskell had a better voice and was a better bassist than Burrell (who had to learn it for Crimson). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I even think the band toured as a unit prior to recording the album.


Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Judging by Earthbound, this line-up veered into Jam-band territory. Very different to Islands.


Well early on in their first tours, they only had five tracks to promte (Gulls was impossible on stage)they included a fair bit of the previous albums and even a cover or two (Donovan, for ex), but as time went on, they went more for improvs


Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Well, I like the album cover..


You didn't see the original US (white) artworkShocked, thenEvil Smile. Absolutely atrociousOuchDeadCryNuke


Edited by Sean Trane - July 11 2020 at 02:10
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I've spun this record 10 times this weekend, and this is my honest thought, as of this time:

This is by far the weakest KC release for me. Tracks 1 and 2 are very solid, and I was getting excited thinking this would be another album I missed for years; nope, my intuition was unfortunately correct, lol. 

Ladies of The Road sounds like a Beatles attempt gone awry/half baked/they left it in for quantity over quality.

The use of flute all over the recording is absolutely beautiful, though.

Lizard is leaps and bounds more enjoyable for me.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I prefer "Lizard" to "Islands", mostly because of the drummer. I much prefer Andy McCulloch's style to Ian Wallace's.

Lizard is just a more interesting album (imo)
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I'm a jazz guy and I even think some of the stuff on Islands sounds half baked/filler.

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One of my top KC albums. Narry a dull moment! I love the title track as well as Ladies Of The Road the most. Sailor's Tale not far behind.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Actually, the best part of this album is what the guests are doing with and around Mel Collins (Harry Miller, Tippett, Charig, Robin Miller). The A-side is relatively good , but the flipside is reallyweak, IMHO. When a teen, I loved Prelude, but nowadays, I find it embarrassing... despite being used as the theme for the Bigas Luna film of Son De Mar .

Let's face it, the Island line-up was inferior to the Lizard line-up (that never really happened), but at least the Wallace collection line-up Wink had the merit to exist for a while. Fripp, Collins and Sinfield are equal to themselves (though I'd say that Sinfield's lyrics were even more impenetrable on Islands), but McCullough was a better drummer than Wallace and Haskell had a better voice and was a better bassist than Burrell (who had to learn it for Crimson). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I even think the band toured as a unit prior to recording the album.



Well, the difference of quality between Lizard and Islands is thin.
I like both. 

You say the second side of Islands is weak... I dont know, maybe the A-side is better but in my opinion the
A-side of Lizard is weaker than Islands' B-side. 

And Gordon Haskell had trouble singing those songs by his own admission (when he laughs, he does it out of desperation). It seems to me that Haskell's voice is a great damage for Lizard, because it is almost always out of context while Boz Burrell seems much more comfortable to me. 

On the other hand, the side with the Lizard suite seems to me decidedly superior to the two sides of Islands. 
Overall I consider that albums imperfect but very ambitious works, almost revolutionary, and they are both on the borderline between being considered a masterpiece. In my ranking Lizard is an almost masterpiece ("almost" because of the A side) while Islands is a small masterpiece.

 
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Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Actually, the best part of this album is what the guests are doing with and around Mel Collins (Harry Miller, Tippett, Charig, Robin Miller). The A-side is relatively good , but the flipside is reallyweak, IMHO. When a teen, I loved Prelude, but nowadays, I find it embarrassing... despite being used as the theme for the Bigas Luna film of Son De Mar .

Let's face it, the Island line-up was inferior to the Lizard line-up (that never really happened), but at least the Wallace collection line-up Wink had the merit to exist for a while. Fripp, Collins and Sinfield are equal to themselves (though I'd say that Sinfield's lyrics were even more impenetrable on Islands), but McCullough was a better drummer than Wallace and Haskell had a better voice and was a better bassist than Burrell (who had to learn it for Crimson). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I even think the band toured as a unit prior to recording the album.



Well, the difference of quality between Lizard and Islands is thin.
I like both. 

You say the second side of Islands is weak... I dont know, maybe the A-side is better but in my opinion the
A-side of Lizard is weaker than Islands' B-side. 

And Gordon Haskell had trouble singing those songs by his own admission (when he laughs, he does it out of desperation). It seems to me that Haskell's voice is a great damage for Lizard, because it is almost always out of context while Boz Burrell seems much more comfortable to me. 

On the other hand, the side with the Lizard suite seems to me decidedly superior to the two sides of Islands. 
Overall I consider that albums imperfect but very ambitious works, almost revolutionary, and they are both on the borderline between being considered a masterpiece. In my ranking Lizard is an almost masterpiece ("almost" because of the A side) while Islands is a small masterpiece.

 


Great minds think alikeWink. Gordon Haskell's voice is what prevents Lizard from being a 5-star masterpiece in my book. Musically the album is fantastic, and - as Lorenzo pointed out - a very ambitious, experimental work. However, Haskell's performance seriously impairs the whole (though I know some people love it), so much that I feel a sense of relief when Jon Anderson's voice makes its grand entrance in "Prince Rupert Awakes".

Islands, on the other hand, is probably my least favourite of all KC albums (yes, I like Beat much betterWink). Though it's not bad by any means, I find it slightly on the soporific side - the only exception being the rather controversial "Ladies of the Road".
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KC alternated between albums that offered instant gratification and those like ISLANDS that demanded more of an investment in understanding. While ISLANDS isn't my fave of the 70s bunch, it's certainly an interesting album that was an influence for many other bands to come.

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I find Haskell more interesting as a singer. His voice in Lizard doesn't quite fit at times, but I find this fascinating rather than annoying. He surely contributes his own element to the overall atmosphere of the album. Burrell sings OK but doesn't make me want to listen to him as a singer specifically.
Team "Lizard clearly over Islands" here.
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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

I've spun this record 10 times this weekend, and this is my honest thought, as of this time:

This is by far the weakest KC release for me. Tracks 1 and 2 are very solid, and I was getting excited thinking this would be another album I missed for years; nope, my intuition was unfortunately correct, lol. 

Ladies of The Road sounds like a Beatles attempt gone awry/half baked/they left it in for quantity over quality.

The use of flute all over the recording is absolutely beautiful, though.

Lizard is leaps and bounds more enjoyable for me.


Indeed tracks 1 and 2 are, for me, the best ones (though I almost like them better live, sort of stronger, but what the first one gains on strength, it looses on ambience, with those nice eerie vocals and great Tippet piano), and hardly remember most of the rest of the album. I was never much of a fan of The Letters, but the versions on the live albums by the new line-up are really great. The last one is sort of nice, too.

Edited by Dellinger - July 16 2020 at 10:19
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Actually, the best part of this album is what the guests are doing with and around Mel Collins (Harry Miller, Tippett, Charig, Robin Miller). The A-side is relatively good , but the flipside is reallyweak, IMHO. When a teen, I loved Prelude, but nowadays, I find it embarrassing... despite being used as the theme for the Bigas Luna film of Son De Mar .

Let's face it, the Island line-up was inferior to the Lizard line-up (that never really happened), but at least the Wallace collection line-up Wink had the merit to exist for a while. Fripp, Collins and Sinfield are equal to themselves (though I'd say that Sinfield's lyrics were even more impenetrable on Islands), but McCullough was a better drummer than Wallace and Haskell had a better voice and was a better bassist than Burrell (who had to learn it for Crimson). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I even think the band toured as a unit prior to recording the album.


Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Judging by Earthbound, this line-up veered into Jam-band territory. Very different to Islands.


Well early on in their first tours, they only had five tracks to promte (Gulls was impossible on stage)they included a fair bit of the previous albums and even a cover or two (Donovan, for ex), but as time went on, they went more for improvs


Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Well, I like the album cover..


You didn't see the original US (white) artworkShocked, thenEvil Smile. Absolutely atrociousOuchDeadCryNuke




Actually, for me Haskell is by far the worst singer Crimson had. Burrell may not have been particularly great, but at least he was average enough.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Well, I like the album cover..
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Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

I've spun this record 10 times this weekend, and this is my honest thought, as of this time:

This is by far the weakest KC release for me. Tracks 1 and 2 are very solid, and I was getting excited thinking this would be another album I missed for years; nope, my intuition was unfortunately correct, lol. 

Ladies of The Road sounds like a Beatles attempt gone awry/half baked/they left it in for quantity over quality.

The use of flute all over the recording is absolutely beautiful, though.

Lizard is leaps and bounds more enjoyable for me.


Indeed tracks 1 and 2 are, for me, the best ones (though I almost like them better live, sort of stronger, but what the first one gainst on strength, it looses on ambience, with those nice eerie vocals and great Tippet piano), and hardly remember most of the rest of the album. I was never much of a fan of The Letters, but the versions on the live albums by the new line-up are really great. The last one is sort of nice, too.

I have to track down some live footage/audio of said tour; I'm very keen to see how audiences take to this stuff, especially at that period. This album is like a completely different mood shift than everything both before and after it.

Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 
Well, I like the album cover..
  

Yes, the cover is stellar, to say the least Wink.

This album somehow sounds worse than it did a few days ago, lmao.

SHELVED FOR NOW.

I totally expect myself to "rediscover" this one right around winter when my mood fits the pacing.

Summertime = fast, jazzy, eclectic noises please!

In The Wake of Poseidon Does just that for me! 

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Islands is a unique album in its own. It still has some commitment to jazz/fusion, but elements of classical and minimalism show up more often. While Lizard is weird, jovial and chaotic, this one is more dreamy, spaced-out, meditative, sometimes even sad.

So if your trip across town happens to be in the wee hours of the morning (or at night), you might have a great experience then :))) Especially Side A tracks played together make for a hazy trip.

(Also, I'm in the Lizard > Islands club, especially when it comes to vocals)
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Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Actually, the best part of this album is what the guests are doing with and around Mel Collins (Harry Miller, Tippett, Charig, Robin Miller). The A-side is relatively good , but the flipside is reallyweak, IMHO. When a teen, I loved Prelude, but nowadays, I find it embarrassing... despite being used as the theme for the Bigas Luna film of Son De Mar .

Let's face it, the Island line-up was inferior to the Lizard line-up (that never really happened), but at least the Wallace collection line-up Wink had the merit to exist for a while. Fripp, Collins and Sinfield are equal to themselves (though I'd say that Sinfield's lyrics were even more impenetrable on Islands), but McCullough was a better drummer than Wallace and Haskell had a better voice and was a better bassist than Burrell (who had to learn it for Crimson). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I even think the band toured as a unit prior to recording the album.
Well, the difference of quality between Lizard and Islands is thin.
I like both.
You say the second side of Islands is weak... I dont know, maybe the A-side is better but in my opinion the
A-side of Lizard is weaker than Islands' B-side.
And Gordon Haskell had trouble singing those songs by his own admission (when he laughs, he does it out of desperation). It seems to me that Haskell's voice is a great damage for Lizard, because it is almost always out of context while Boz Burrell seems much more comfortable to me.
On the other hand, the side with the Lizard suite seems to me decidedly superior to the two sides of Islands. 
Overall I consider that albums imperfect but very ambitious works, almost revolutionary, and they are both on the borderline between being considered a masterpiece. In my ranking Lizard is an almost masterpiece ("almost" because of the A side) while Islands is a small masterpiece.

Great minds think alikeWink. Gordon Haskell's voice is what prevents Lizard from being a 5-star masterpiece in my book. Musically the album is fantastic, and - as Lorenzo pointed out - a very ambitious, experimental work. However, Haskell's performance seriously impairs the whole (though I know some people love it), so much that I feel a sense of relief when Jon Anderson's voice makes its grand entrance in "Prince Rupert Awakes".
Islands, on the other hand, is probably my least favourite of all KC albums (yes, I like Beat much betterWink). Though it's not bad by any means, I find it slightly on the soporific side - the only exception being the rather controversial "Ladies of the Road".


Can't really trust Haskell because of his dislike for the music he recorded with Crimson, and most likely with his dislike of Frippy. As far as I can hear it, I can't see Burrell, Wetton or Ade singing any of the stuff on Lizard. Maybe Lake, though. Haskell's voice is perfect (no matter what he's saying) on Lizard (as is Jon's) and Poseidon (strange he doesn't diss his own performance in that album, even if smaller)

Yes, Gordon's solo stuff (drivel I might be tempted to say) is quite different than the Crimson sonics, but if you listen to his song Earth Worm on Stackridge's Extravaganza, it's quite Crimsoney, so his Crimson tenure did leave something.
I don't remember Gordon having an incredible career before or after his Crimson days , and it was 20 years before his real career took a noteworthy start. 

Reading his early 70's solo album track titles, I don't think he wrote & sang stuff half as intelligent as on Lizard or Poseidon.  As far as I know, I've never seen any 70's lyrics of his ever printed anywhere on one of his releases, which is certainly not Sinfield's case.


OK, I'm not Haskell's lawyer, so I'll stop defending his sorry case. Evil SmileLOL
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The main difference between the two albums, is I can happily listen to Islands any day of the week. I have to be in a pretty strange mood to really enjoy Lizard. It is an 'interesting' album, and I struggle with the vocals a bit, but overall the songs appeal.

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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

I've spun this record 10 times this weekend, and this is my honest thought, as of this time:

This is by far the weakest KC release for me. Tracks 1 and 2 are very solid, and I was getting excited thinking this would be another album I missed for years; nope, my intuition was unfortunately correct, lol. 

Ladies of The Road sounds like a Beatles attempt gone awry/half baked/they left it in for quantity over quality.

The use of flute all over the recording is absolutely beautiful, though.

Lizard is leaps and bounds more enjoyable for me.


Indeed tracks 1 and 2 are, for me, the best ones (though I almost like them better live, sort of stronger, but what the first one gains on strength, it looses on ambience, with those nice eerie vocals and great Tippet piano), and hardly remember most of the rest of the album. I was never much of a fan of The Letters, but the versions on the live albums by the new line-up are really great. The last one is sort of nice, too.


I have to track down some live footage/audio of said tour; I'm very keen to see how audiences take to this stuff, especially at that period. This album is like a completely different mood shift than everything both before and after it.

<span style="line-height: 16.5455px;">
Originally posted by HackettFan HackettFan wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

 </span><br style="line-height: 16.5455px;"><span style="line-height: 16.5455px;">Well, I like the album cover..
 </span><span style="line-height: 16.5455px;"> 
</span><div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">Yes, the cover is stellar, to say the least Wink.<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;"><span style="line-height: 16.5455px;">This album somehow sounds worse than it did a few days ago, lmao.</span><div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">SHELVED FOR NOW.<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">I totally expect myself to "rediscover" this one right around winter when my mood fits the pacing.<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">Summertime = fast, jazzy, eclectic noises please!<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">
<div style="line-height: 16.5455px;">In The Wake of Poseidon Does just that for me! 


Well, I guess the live one to go for is Ladies of the Road. That's the one I got, though I haven't heard anything else live from that line-up (I went for ratings... or perhaps that was the only one released, at least by that time).
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Very patchy album for me. I adore Sailor's Tale (Ian Wallace's sulphurous 6/8 groove under Fripp's febrile probings are an unbridled joy) Ladies of the Road mimics very well the dissolution it is attempting to illustrate but the chorus is lifted straight out of Mary Poppins' Chim Chim Cheree. The title track is pretty good (but really doesn't have enough musical ideas to warrant 12 minutes of your time) The music for the Letters isn't too shabby but Burrell's delivery of some portentous Sinfield poetry is overwrought Gothic slapstick while Prelude: Song Of The Gulls comes across as a rather short-handed attempt by the Lower School Fiddle Ensemble to premiere their first composition on Parents Night during a particularly virulent strain of flu.

Edited by ExittheLemming - July 17 2020 at 03:17
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