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Which is THE Strawbs Epic?

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Poll Question: Which is THE Strawbs Epic?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [8.00%]
3 [12.00%]
3 [12.00%]
2 [8.00%]
2 [8.00%]
7 [28.00%]
6 [24.00%]
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SteveG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Which is THE Strawbs Epic?
    Posted: July 21 2020 at 09:59
Oh, I agree 100%. I don't like to beat up on Dave and the boys, naturally,  but I was disappointed with the title track of the Ferryman's Course. If it was as good or better than The Vision Of The Lady Of the Lake then the album would have been a near masterpiece, imho. It really needed a strong ending and didn't have one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2020 at 09:55
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

The latest album has at least 3 songs that easily qualify as "epic" - "The Nails from the Hands of Christ", "When the Spirit Moves", and "The Ferryman's curse"
I would go with "The Ferryman's Curse". If we put all of The Strawbs' near epics on the list the count would be up to about 30 or 40 songs!

right, Strawbs tended to the epic side of things during what is generally regarded as their peak period, but even the backsliding years had epics like "Beside the Rio Grande", "Burning for me" or "Words of Wisdom".  Beginning with "The Broken Hearted Bride" in 2008, they returned to the epic ideal with force.  BHB had 2 distinct epics ("A Call to Action" and "Through Aphrodite's Eyes"), "Dancing to the Devil's Beat" had one major one ("pro Patria Suite") and a smaller one ("When Silent Shadows Fall"), and the latest has 1-3 as we discussed.

TBH (and I think you agree Steve), the title cut to "Ferryman's Curse" doesn't quite do it for me. Lyrically yes, and at times musically as well, but the meter and melody are just meh for me,. especially when compared to its prequel "The Vision of the Lady of the Lake".  If that track could have lived up to its billing, it would be a 5 star album, but it costs the album a star and a bit for me unfortunately


Edited by kenethlevine - July 21 2020 at 09:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2020 at 08:12
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

The latest album has at least 3 songs that easily qualify as "epic" - "The Nails from the Hands of Christ", "When the Spirit Moves", and "The Ferryman's curse"
I would go with "The Ferryman's Curse". If we put all of The Strawbs' near epics on the list the count would be up to about 30 or 40 songs!

Edited by SteveG - July 21 2020 at 08:41
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2020 at 14:57
The latest album has at least 3 songs that easily qualify as "epic" - "The Nails from the Hands of Christ", "When the Spirit Moves", and "The Ferryman's curse"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2020 at 05:33
Autumn is just 1 vote ahead of Ghosts. I myself could not pick one over the other form this list so I'm impressed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Snicolette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 10:33
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

^ A few nice licks by R.C.Wakeman do not an epic make! Extend the hammond organ intro out by 10 mins and add mellotron and moog plus a five minute guitar solo and you may have your epic....otherwise MEH...
And cockney rebel's proper epic (live version) blows all these tracks out of the water...


You refuse (on purpose, I suppose) to see that "epic" means more "heroic" than "lengthy"

And the grandeur/poetry (that is implied in an "epic") is really present in the poignant text (the Orangists hanging the catholics on NI, while claiming they're "loyal")

An epic sends shiver down the spine, and never has Dave Cousins' voice and words been more poignant than on that track.
  Every one of these songs has an epic feel to me.  This is a particularly epic story, so well sung.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 09:54
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

^ A few nice licks by R.C.Wakeman do not an epic make! Extend the hammond organ intro out by 10 mins and add mellotron and moog plus a five minute guitar solo and you may have your epic....otherwise MEH...
And cockney rebel's proper epic (live version) blows all these tracks out of the water...


You refuse (on purpose, I suppose) to see that "epic" means more "heroic" than "lengthy"

And the grandeur/poetry (that is implied in an "epic") is really present in the poignant text (the Orangists hanging the catholics on NI, while claiming they're "loyal")

An epic sends shiver down the spine, and never has Dave Cousins' voice and words been more poignant than on that track.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 05:50
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

I don't claim to know anything of DC's radio adventures except that I do know he was relieved to leave the Strawbs for it 1978 and was successful at whatever his function was. I do know that the Strawbs were resurrected in the 80s to keep his friends like Brian Willoughby, Tony Hooper and Richard Hudson employed, so the band never had DC's undivided attention and it shows in the few albums that version of the group made.

Hi,

His book is not clear in a lot of things ... the ending of the band in 1978, seems to coincide with the chance to make some money back at where he came from in radio which he had been involved with even in the earlier days with STRAWBS, and he might have stopped because STRAWBS was not bringing in enough money ... and I think his bills were mounting for house, child, etc ... 

His book is a bit strange for me, because his divided attentions, seems to make a case that the band just did not cut it to make things easier for him, even if/when the music was excellent all around, which at least in Santa Barbara, all the albums from 1974 to when I left in 1982 ... were all played senseless by Guy Guden on his shows regularly ... but I have a feeling that the American sales is what hurt the most ... they probably did not generate numbers that helped, and were too close to breaking even or losing some money.

I can't even decide how to do a review of the book, and I have read it twice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2020 at 02:46
^ A few nice licks by R.C.Wakeman do not an epic make! Extend the hammond organ intro out by 10 mins and add mellotron and moog plus a five minute guitar solo and you may have your epic....otherwise MEH...
And cockney rebel's proper epic (live version) blows all these tracks out of the water...

Edited by M27Barney - July 17 2020 at 02:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 16:52
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Ok. I've done farts longer than all those tracks...epics? Suppose to the popsters everything over three minutes is an epic boring prog dinosaur noodle fest....😎


Barney,
Stop being a twit and a tw@t!! Stern Smile
does it get more epic than this?? Smile



Edited by Sean Trane - July 16 2020 at 16:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 12:20
Very well, just keep your eye on the thread title and wait for it to change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 12:12
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Not really, as your definition only applies to long poems.

Ok. Then change the topic title. As none of these are poems obviously. You may as well apply the word elephantine to this set of tracks...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 10:35
Not really, as your definition only applies to long poems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 10:29
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Ok. I've done farts longer than all those tracks...epics? Suppose to the popsters everything over three minutes is an epic boring prog dinosaur noodle fest....😎

Barney, some times you come up with some real winners of opinion. What makes a song an epic is it's sense of grandiosity and dare I say it, it's sense of pretention. But to satisfy your definition of an epic, the song running times are as follows, with only New World being close to your three minute pop formula: The Battle 6:28, The Antique Suite 12:13, Blue Angel 9:45, New World 4:08, The River/Down By The Sea 8:37, Autumn 8:26 and Ghosts 8:30.  Cool

Epic is used primarily to define the longer (chronologically defined) peices of music. I reckon the cutoff time for arbitrary purposes is 15+ minutes. Again, people could say, I think A is the best ergo A is EPIC....thus it just becomes another synonym for favorite....again every track a band does could be defined as EPIC....we have this argument ad nauseum....

Edited by M27Barney - July 16 2020 at 10:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 09:18
I don't claim to know anything of DC's radio adventures except that I do know he was relieved to leave the Strawbs for it 1978 and was successful at whatever his function was. I do know that the Strawbs were resurrected in the 80s to keep his friends like Brian Willoughby, Tony Hooper and Richard Hudson employed, so the band never had DC's undivided attention and it shows in the few albums that version of the group made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 08:48
HI,

I don't know that I think of one of my favorite bands as having "epic" songs, and they have too many albums that I love dearly.

Just great music, but I'm not sure that DC can come up with something longer than his nice words and poems, that could be enlarged by the music as is the case in a couple of examples ... but they were always good and I wish they had better luck and a better chance ... DC and the group, deserve it for the fine amount of music right from the start.

My only sad comment? That DC had to quit music to work in the development of the FM radio in England, and apparently got known really well for his proposals to add a station in various places. So he had an effect, in terms of adding something ... but none of that is reflected too well in the albums, although I have not done a listing side by side of dates for the albums and the rest of his life.

For all the good he did on the radio thing, he did not push his own band, at least as far as his words are concerned in the book, and I think he should have done it a couple more times, but with the BBC and other folks with knives and guns in their had, I think he played it safe to not hurt any investors, Something like that, although my understanding of radio "history" in England is nothing compared to the one in America, that I was very close to!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 16 2020 at 05:12
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Ok. I've done farts longer than all those tracks...epics? Suppose to the popsters everything over three minutes is an epic boring prog dinosaur noodle fest....😎
Barney, some times you come up with some real winners of opinion. What makes a song an epic is it's sense of grandiosity and dare I say it, it's sense of pretention. But to satisfy your definition of an epic, the song running times are as follows, with only New World being close to your three minute pop formula: The Battle 6:28, The Antique Suite 12:13, Blue Angel 9:45, New World 4:08, The River/Down By The Sea 8:37, Autumn 8:26 and Ghosts 8:30.  Cool

Edited by SteveG - July 16 2020 at 05:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote geekfreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2020 at 23:39
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I don't know any of those songs, but I do know that Hero & Heroine is my favourite Strawbs album. Smile
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iluvmarillion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2020 at 20:14
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Ok. I've done farts longer than all those tracks...epics? Suppose to the popsters everything over three minutes is an epic boring prog dinosaur noodle fest....😎

Prefer three minutes of euphoric well constructed music than 20 minutes of boredom. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2020 at 13:17
Ok. I've done farts longer than all those tracks...epics? Suppose to the popsters everything over three minutes is an epic boring prog dinosaur noodle fest....😎

Edited by M27Barney - July 15 2020 at 13:19
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