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Prog musicians juggling music career and work?

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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog musicians juggling music career and work?
    Posted: October 22 2021 at 02:39
Very nice indeed ! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2021 at 22:36
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Hi Cstack3, I'm about 22 miles south of Manchester. ;-)

Better start swimming now. ;-)

I lived & worked in the Exeter, Devon UK region years ago, fell in love with the place!!  

One lovely day, I was strolling down high street in Exeter & saw a wee bit of a sign, "Manson's Guitar Shoppe.'

I went in and it was like Alice down the rabbit hole!  Little did I know that Hugh Manson was the luthier & repairman for Steve Howe, John Paul Jones & many others!! 

I bought this gorgeous fretless bass at his shop, please see the website:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2021 at 05:38
^ Video didn't kill the radio star. It was the internet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2021 at 15:51
The situation would be much better if it were not for the widespread theft of music by filesharing etc.  

Napster opened a Pandora's box that shall never be closed.  Once a musician records something and distributes it, it is cast into the ether for all to enjoy at no cost.  Sad. 

That is a big reason why I don't post my own music to PA, YouTube etc.  Also, other musicians were involved and I don't wish to share their music without permission. 

Someday I'll toss something out to show what I do, but working on solving climate change is my priority right now.  Please visit my company, http://neochloris.com


Edited by cstack3 - October 19 2021 at 15:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2021 at 10:23
Well, it IS easy, if you don't actually know what you're talking about. ;-) 

There will always be a few shining examples, although they're getting rarer and rarer. Proper, skilled, improvising musicians are now an incredible rarity. Anyone who's not a musician will say "there are so many good musicians about" as they've heard a few examples. 

But if you're a musician and the guitarist can't transpose a song he's learnt by rote from an album or from tab from G to F, well. 

"Right, you're in F, can you improvise that bit ?"

Simple answer in 99 percent of cases, no, they can't improvise that bit, or any other bit. 


Edited by Davesax1965 - October 19 2021 at 10:24

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2021 at 01:48
It's getting harder and harder to find quality musicians, let alone locally.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2021 at 09:25
Hi Cstack3, I'm about 22 miles south of Manchester. ;-)

Better start swimming now. ;-)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2021 at 00:12
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

How long have you been playing ? ;-)

45 years in my case, so this is knowledge and not opinion. 

The general standard has fallen through the floor. There are a few good musicians around but they're the stand out rarity. 

Some local "sax expert " said wow, Bb, Eb, that's an unusual key signature. 

Jesus. I was going to invite him around for a jam but I tend to play in harmonic minors. 

One of my mates gave up on having a bassist in his band as the last five he had just looked at their shoes if he started deviating from the tab the bassist had learnt. 

About 1-2% of musicians can improvise nowadays as well. 

Pity we don't live around the block from one another!  Arizona USA is a bit of a swim, with my gear on my back.

UK is a big place, where you be?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2021 at 08:09
How long have you been playing ? ;-)

45 years in my case, so this is knowledge and not opinion. 

The general standard has fallen through the floor. There are a few good musicians around but they're the stand out rarity. 

Some local "sax expert " said wow, Bb, Eb, that's an unusual key signature. 

Jesus. I was going to invite him around for a jam but I tend to play in harmonic minors. 

One of my mates gave up on having a bassist in his band as the last five he had just looked at their shoes if he started deviating from the tab the bassist had learnt. 

About 1-2% of musicians can improvise nowadays as well. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - October 15 2021 at 08:19

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2021 at 07:03
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Another thing which grabs me. The reason why music is dying on it's feet is that there are not as many quality musicians coming through. 

Now, at this stage, all the young whippersnappers on the site will tell me I'm wrong, but, er, sorry, I've been a musician for over 45 years and I do actually remember what the standards of music used to be like and how many musicians there were in the 70's.

Of course, there are many more distractions today but we have a generation who are convinced that someone else should play music for them and, say, learning guitar is something someone else does. The few who do actually learn an instrument seem to think that learning a three chord trick of shouting gibberish and spit into a microphone is sufficient to make them famous. 

So there's been a dilution of talent as well. There's still a lot out there, but music is not the holy grail it used to be and we live in a generation of instant gratification. No one is interested in mastering an instrument, which is the basis behind progressive rock. Prog rock won't make you rich or famous. Tell me about it. So less and less youthpersons are bothering to put the hours in.

All in all, not having venues or revenues is pretty bad. But not having competent musicians is the death knell. 
Disagree with this and I'm an older dinosaur than you. If you think the standards of musicians today are less than in the 70's you're not looking hard enough.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - October 15 2021 at 07:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2021 at 05:22
It's endemic, Chopper - it's just that there's one person here stupid enough to admit it. 

Needless to say I edited my original reply to remove the word "thief". 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 08:44
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Just went over to the "free music downloads" sticky here on PA to see what was happening. 

Here's a quote from a PA member.
"I am looking for a legal way to get Harbour of Tears by Camel for free. It is nowhere on Youtube save for Watching for the Bobbins and a few others. It is not on Spotify, but if I pirate it at the Pirates Bay, then I feel that I will not get caught, because Camel is fairly obscure save for us(the progheads) where it is mainstream."
 

that is just unbelieveable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 08:21
Just went over to the "free music downloads" sticky here on PA to see what was happening. 

Here's a quote from a PA member.
"I am looking for a legal way to get Harbour of Tears by Camel for free. It is nowhere on Youtube save for Watching for the Bobbins and a few others. It is not on Spotify, but if I pirate it at the Pirates Bay, then I feel that I will not get caught, because Camel is fairly obscure save for us(the progheads) where it is mainstream."

Here's my answer.

"Pay for it, there's a legal way". 

So there you have it. You might note that there are one or two people still giving music away for free but the thread is essentially static. (I was last on it on 24th May 2020 giving some music away, it's one page back. It's effectively been dead for a year.)

So do you all have an adequate answer why music is dying ? 

Yep. It's the fans. Or lack of them. 

Should I say "fans" instead ? 

And that includes a lot of PA members, as my website stats show. So stop whining and start supporting, whilst you still have some music left. 


Edited by Davesax1965 - October 14 2021 at 08:31

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 07:43
I think the point when he was telling me all about modular synths when I'd spent four years building one from scratch was possibly one of the more blood pressure inducing ones I've had in recent years. 

He'd got a free VST or something which conferred expert status on him. 

I just know some of the top synth designers in the world. So that's me told. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - October 14 2021 at 07:44

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 07:42
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ And that's the bottom line. In the digital download world, there is no longer a supply and demand system in the music business. But I must say, leaving site because of mosh is surprising. I kind of view him as furniture. 


Well, it was mainly the ad hominem attacks and digs. It's a pity you can't block or throw people off the site, but I got quite sick of him saying exactly what he wanted, even if it was socially unacceptable. 

I've found the best way to deal with him is to ignore his posts. Most of them are long, rambling and complete b*ll*cks anyway.


All of them. ;-) 

"Hi
<complete unconnected rant>"
<ignores all contrary opinion, even if it's from more qualified people>

 - and I am too much of a gentleman to say what I really think of that kind of attitude here. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 07:40
Another thing which grabs me. The reason why music is dying on it's feet is that there are not as many quality musicians coming through. 

Now, at this stage, all the young whippersnappers on the site will tell me I'm wrong, but, er, sorry, I've been a musician for over 45 years and I do actually remember what the standards of music used to be like and how many musicians there were in the 70's.

Of course, there are many more distractions today but we have a generation who are convinced that someone else should play music for them and, say, learning guitar is something someone else does. The few who do actually learn an instrument seem to think that learning a three chord trick of shouting gibberish and spit into a microphone is sufficient to make them famous. 

So there's been a dilution of talent as well. There's still a lot out there, but music is not the holy grail it used to be and we live in a generation of instant gratification. No one is interested in mastering an instrument, which is the basis behind progressive rock. Prog rock won't make you rich or famous. Tell me about it. So less and less youthpersons are bothering to put the hours in.

All in all, not having venues or revenues is pretty bad. But not having competent musicians is the death knell. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 07:39
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ And that's the bottom line. In the digital download world, there is no longer a supply and demand system in the music business. But I must say, leaving site because of mosh is surprising. I kind of view him as furniture. 


Well, it was mainly the ad hominem attacks and digs. It's a pity you can't block or throw people off the site, but I got quite sick of him saying exactly what he wanted, even if it was socially unacceptable. 

I've found the best way to deal with him is to ignore his posts. Most of them are long, rambling and complete b*ll*cks anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 07:34
I see that now Covid is beginning to fade into the background, ticket prices are going up at venues. We were going to go to a gig in early January but the prices were just eye watering. 

So there's another effect of not paying for music. The few bands left who can afford to tour can charge through the nose for it. Of course, part of this is down to greedy music venues, but if you can only put one show on on a Saturday, you put on the one which makes you the most money. 

So it's a cycle of rip offs at all levels, to be honest. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davesax1965 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2021 at 07:31
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ And that's the bottom line. In the digital download world, there is no longer a supply and demand system in the music business. But I must say, leaving site because of mosh is surprising. I kind of view him as furniture. 


Well, it was mainly the ad hominem attacks and digs. It's a pity you can't block or throw people off the site, but I got quite sick of him saying exactly what he wanted, even if it was socially unacceptable. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2021 at 18:27
Wilson wrote the epitaph a long time ago and was dead right about this, sadly:

"One of the wonders of the world is going down/It's going down/I know
 It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares/No-one cares enough"
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