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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

2010s would be my choice due to so many great debut albums.


choice of what? Confused LOLthis isn't a poll. 
De facto this is like a poll, lol. Well I think that the 2010s "wave of Prog" was better than "wave of Prog" in the 2000s and let's say equal to the 1990s, although different because in the 1990s the new bands were still looking for a record label to release their debut album officially, while in the the 2010s it was mostly self-released stuff, more alike lovely folk-art. Personally I loved it.

again, not a choice to make, the OP is trying to figure out what's happened beyond classic prog years. 
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Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

^I was simply asking whether my idea of prog history is correct.

Hi,

For all intents and purposes there is no "correct" ... and the best we can do is evaluate what we see and study and hope that it makes sense.

One of the examples I like to use is the many posts here that are totally about a "song" and a "format" that is no where near what "progressive" started out to be ... and then calling this wannabe stuff ... progressive ... when it really isn't.

Along with this is the issue with long cuts and such ... and no one in the late 60's or into the 70's before FM RADIO in America became commercial (starts in '76/'77 or so ... I don't have an exact number), thought that the music was ....meeehhhhh ... or ... boring ... and one just enjoyed the trip as it went along ... I suppose that those same folks would say that it was all the dope at the time ... and goodness gracious ... I was not even a doper! And I loved the music, and every time I hear another bootleg of Quicksilver Messenger Service at the Fillmore, I nearly cry ... that is really good stuff ... and we think a guitar thrashing guy is better!!! They obviously never heard Alvin Lee, I'm sure!

I think, that when "thinking" and "lyrics" take over the music, the whole thing is over ... now it becomes a song about this or that ... and it takes the mystery, the curiosity and the wonder out of the whole piece of music for me, and many folks ... but folks complaining about long cuts and such ... is one of the weirdest things ever in the history of music ... like no Symphony or Concerto didn't even have that ... and no one is doubting the veracity of the script for many operas and how the music illustrates that ... but today's audience has to be spoon fed their Gerber ... and not have to listen attentively!
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

^I was simply asking whether my idea of prog history is correct.

Hi,

For all intents and purposes there is no "correct" ... and the best we can do is evaluate what we see and study and hope that it makes sense.

One of the examples I like to use is the many posts here that are totally about a "song" and a "format" that is no where near what "progressive" started out to be ... and then calling this wannabe stuff ... progressive ... when it really isn't.

Along with this is the issue with long cuts and such ... and no one in the late 60's or into the 70's before FM RADIO in America became commercial (starts in '76/'77 or so ... I don't have an exact number), thought that the music was ....meeehhhhh ... or ... boring ... and one just enjoyed the trip as it went along ... I suppose that those same folks would say that it was all the dope at the time ... and goodness gracious ... I was not even a doper! And I loved the music, and every time I hear another bootleg of Quicksilver Messenger Service at the Fillmore, I nearly cry ... that is really good stuff ... and we think a guitar thrashing guy is better!!! They obviously never heard Alvin Lee, I'm sure!

I think, that when "thinking" and "lyrics" take over the music, the whole thing is over ... now it becomes a song about this or that ... and it takes the mystery, the curiosity and the wonder out of the whole piece of music for me, and many folks ... but folks complaining about long cuts and such ... is one of the weirdest things ever in the history of music ... like no Symphony or Concerto didn't even have that ... and no one is doubting the veracity of the script for many operas and how the music illustrates that ... but today's audience has to be spoon fed their Gerber ... and not have to listen attentively!

Yes, you are right. I ment if others felt it was correct.
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I wouldn't say waves, per se. More like puddles. Stomped through with muddy boots.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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It's kind of accurate if we're just looking at a few of the sub-genres and mostly looking at it through a more anglo-american focus.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

2010s would be my choice due to so many great debut albums.


choice of what? Confused LOLthis isn't a poll. 
De facto this is like a poll, lol. Well I think that the 2010s "wave of Prog" was better than "wave of Prog" in the 2000s and let's say equal to the 1990s, although different because in the 1990s the new bands were still looking for a record label to release their debut album officially, while in the the 2010s it was mostly self-released stuff, more alike lovely folk-art. Personally I loved it.

again, not a choice to make, the OP is trying to figure out what's happened beyond classic prog years. 
In my perception - maybe I'm wrong - this really looks like the OP actually wanted to do just another "best year in Prog" poll but that he has switched in the last minute and posted a non-poll topic.

Anyhow, I'll just repeat that I think that the 2010s "wave of Prog" was much better than "wave" in the 2000s. And in my opinion, 2010s would have been even better than the 1990s if Dream Theater had not happened in the nineties.

Edited by Boboulo - September 03 2020 at 18:32
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Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

  In my perception - maybe I'm wrong - this really looks like the OP actually wanted to do just another "best year in Prog" poll but that he has switched in the last minute and posted a non-poll topic.

Anyhow, I'll just repeat that I think that the 2010s "wave of Prog" was much better than "wave" in the 2000s. And in my opinion, 2010s would have been even better than the 1990s if Dream Theater had not happened.

You're wrong. He's discussing waves, it's not a poll.
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

  In my perception - maybe I'm wrong - this really looks like the OP actually wanted to do just another "best year in Prog" poll but that he has switched in the last minute and posted a non-poll topic.

Anyhow, I'll just repeat that I think that the 2010s "wave of Prog" was much better than "wave" in the 2000s. And in my opinion, 2010s would have been even better than the 1990s if Dream Theater had not happened.

You're wrong. He's discussing waves, it's not a poll.
Ok.
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Proto prog 66-69(not really a wave imo)
First wave 69-78
Second wave 82-89
Third wave 90- 2004
Fourth wave 2005- ?

I'm not sure about any more recent waves.
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^No one is, really. Some of the new bands from the 2010s say they're nu prog, some say new prog, some say modern prog, some say some other sub-genre, but most just say they're a prog rock band. Which is not at all helpful for classification maniacs like me. Wink

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

  In my perception - maybe I'm wrong - this really looks like the OP actually wanted to do just another "best year in Prog" poll but that he has switched in the last minute and posted a non-poll topic.

Anyhow, I'll just repeat that I think that the 2010s "wave of Prog" was much better than "wave" in the 2000s. And in my opinion, 2010s would have been even better than the 1990s if Dream Theater had not happened.

You're wrong. He's discussing waves, it's not a poll.
Ok.
Don't worry. I may be a classification maniac, but not a poll maniac. I never intended this as a poll. Smile
 

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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Honestly I think that SW is simply about pop songs ... his days of tripping and doing some really nice and neat music are gone as far as I think, which could be incorrect, of course. but he has not done anything that is remotely even close to "progressive" for a long time, and his solo efforts are all about "songs" ... nothing else. 

Some nice stuff, no doubt, but I would not even consider him progressive anymore!


I think you are wrong, whether you're using progressive as an adjective or a noun. Albums like Hand. Cannot. Erase. and The Raven That Refused to Sing lean even more heavily on traditional progressive rock influences than much of his prior material, but without being derivative. If you think an album dominated by 10+ minute songs fully of jazzy instrumental sections or a life-spanning concept album about the lonely death of a young woman aren't progressive I really don't know how to defend my case. Other than to also point out that pop and progressive aren't mutually exclusive.
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Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Honestly I think that SW is simply about pop songs ... his days of tripping and doing some really nice and neat music are gone as far as I think, which could be incorrect, of course. but he has not done anything that is remotely even close to "progressive" for a long time, and his solo efforts are all about "songs" ... nothing else. 

Some nice stuff, no doubt, but I would not even consider him progressive anymore!


I think you are wrong, whether you're using progressive as an adjective or a noun. Albums like Hand. Cannot. Erase. and The Raven That Refused to Sing lean even more heavily on traditional progressive rock influences than much of his prior material, but without being derivative. If you think an album dominated by 10+ minute songs fully of jazzy instrumental sections or a life-spanning concept album about the lonely death of a young woman aren't progressive I really don't know how to defend my case. Other than to also point out that pop and progressive aren't mutually exclusive.

This is why Steve Wilson is classed as Crossover Prog. Though the dominant genre is prog rock in Wilson's music, he takes influence from many different genres, including jazz, pschedelic, and indeed pop.
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Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Honestly I think that SW is simply about pop songs ... his days of tripping and doing some really nice and neat music are gone as far as I think, which could be incorrect, of course. but he has not done anything that is remotely even close to "progressive" for a long time, and his solo efforts are all about "songs" ... nothing else. 

Some nice stuff, no doubt, but I would not even consider him progressive anymore!


I think you are wrong, whether you're using progressive as an adjective or a noun. Albums like Hand. Cannot. Erase. and The Raven That Refused to Sing lean even more heavily on traditional progressive rock influences than much of his prior material, but without being derivative. If you think an album dominated by 10+ minute songs fully of jazzy instrumental sections or a life-spanning concept album about the lonely death of a young woman aren't progressive I really don't know how to defend my case. Other than to also point out that pop and progressive aren't mutually exclusive.

This is why Steve Wilson is classed as Crossover Prog. Though the dominant genre is prog rock in Wilson's music, he takes influence from many different genres, including jazz, pschedelic, and indeed pop.
A dominant genre in Wilson's music is Alternative rock, actually. Personally I don't like Alternative rock and that's the reason why I don't like him either, regardless of his "proggy" songs.
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Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

...
I think you are wrong, whether you're using progressive as an adjective or a noun. Albums like Hand. Cannot. Erase. and The Raven That Refused to Sing lean even more heavily on traditional progressive rock influences than much of his prior material, but without being derivative. If you think an album dominated by 10+ minute songs fully of jazzy instrumental sections or a life-spanning concept album about the lonely death of a young woman aren't progressive I really don't know how to defend my case. Other than to also point out that pop and progressive aren't mutually exclusive.

Hi,

It doesn't have anything to do with a 10+ minute song or a 4 minute song ... The Edgar Broughton Band, used a lot of small material, but it was always explosive and strong, and they even had a few pieces of music that were "hits", although at least one of them was kinda censored.

To me, SW, is about his fame ... and name ... and I think the music is becoming second rate ... so "crossover" is probably a good place for him ... but "progressive" is not a very good denomination for most of his work, specially when compared to the stuff form the 60's and then 70's ... it makes his material sound down right boring and poor!

Mind you, I don't dislike his work altogether ... but I get tired of his words ... and then spreading his fame ... like Uncle Elton is going to make him more progressive, when all it is doing is ... having some fun at your expense and mine, and I would not be surprised if that part be taken out or changed when the rest of the album comes out ... it was all little songs, and I think he got called on that! An album with 12, o3 13 pieces, all of them 4 or 5 minutes, I'm willing to bet you is not gonna sell and he is going to get trashed silly ... already not many people liked what he showed ... and I thought it was OK, but I would rather he used someone that meant a lot more as a person, than Uncle Elton! I think SW just wanted to have a bit of fun, and don't be surprised if that song is removed!
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Originally posted by Boboulo Boboulo wrote:

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Honestly I think that SW is simply about pop songs ... his days of tripping and doing some really nice and neat music are gone as far as I think, which could be incorrect, of course. but he has not done anything that is remotely even close to "progressive" for a long time, and his solo efforts are all about "songs" ... nothing else. 

Some nice stuff, no doubt, but I would not even consider him progressive anymore!


I think you are wrong, whether you're using progressive as an adjective or a noun. Albums like Hand. Cannot. Erase. and The Raven That Refused to Sing lean even more heavily on traditional progressive rock influences than much of his prior material, but without being derivative. If you think an album dominated by 10+ minute songs fully of jazzy instrumental sections or a life-spanning concept album about the lonely death of a young woman aren't progressive I really don't know how to defend my case. Other than to also point out that pop and progressive aren't mutually exclusive.

This is why Steve Wilson is classed as Crossover Prog. Though the dominant genre is prog rock in Wilson's music, he takes influence from many different genres, including jazz, pschedelic, and indeed pop.
A dominant genre in Wilson's music is Alternative rock, actually. Personally I don't like Alternative rock and that's the reason why I don't like him either, regardless of his "proggy" songs.
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Forgotten Son Forgotten Son wrote:

...
I think you are wrong, whether you're using progressive as an adjective or a noun. Albums like Hand. Cannot. Erase. and The Raven That Refused to Sing lean even more heavily on traditional progressive rock influences than much of his prior material, but without being derivative. If you think an album dominated by 10+ minute songs fully of jazzy instrumental sections or a life-spanning concept album about the lonely death of a young woman aren't progressive I really don't know how to defend my case. Other than to also point out that pop and progressive aren't mutually exclusive.

Hi,

It doesn't have anything to do with a 10+ minute song or a 4 minute song ... The Edgar Broughton Band, used a lot of small material, but it was always explosive and strong, and they even had a few pieces of music that were "hits", although at least one of them was kinda censored.

To me, SW, is about his fame ... and name ... and I think the music is becoming second rate ... so "crossover" is probably a good place for him ... but "progressive" is not a very good denomination for most of his work, specially when compared to the stuff form the 60's and then 70's ... it makes his material sound down right boring and poor!

Mind you, I don't dislike his work altogether ... but I get tired of his words ... and then spreading his fame ... like Uncle Elton is going to make him more progressive, when all it is doing is ... having some fun at your expense and mine, and I would not be surprised if that part be taken out or changed when the rest of the album comes out ... it was all little songs, and I think he got called on that! An album with 12, o3 13 pieces, all of them 4 or 5 minutes, I'm willing to bet you is not gonna sell and he is going to get trashed silly ... already not many people liked what he showed ... and I thought it was OK, but I would rather he used someone that meant a lot more as a person, than Uncle Elton! I think SW just wanted to have a bit of fun, and don't be surprised if that song is removed!




 
This, clearly, is a very debatable subject. And when in doubt, make a poll...
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There was definitely a third wave in the 90's. After that it's somewhat debatable if there was another one but I think there was. To me the fourth wave happened when the Mars Volta made the album charts and then Porcupine Tree soon after. That was in the mid 2000's.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

There was definitely a third wave in the 90's. After that it's somewhat debatable if there was another one but I think there was. To me the fourth wave happened when the Mars Volta made the album charts and then Porcupine Tree soon after. That was in the mid 2000's.
I classed the 90s and 00s as the same wave - for example, Porcupine Tree was active in both the 90s and 00s. I've called this era the general term "post-prog".
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Not to be confused with post-progressive. Which was an early 80s thing. Whereas Neo Prog recontextualized the romanticism of many of the symph/eclectic/cross groups of the previous decade in a synth-pop (or generalized 80s pop) way, post-progressive was typified by more of an influence from post-punk/new wave and minimalism. Many of Eno and Fripp's works at the time exemplify this. The 80s trio of KC albums are the perfect examples. 

This is why I think these waves we're talking about are kind of narrow and mostly focus on Anglo-American symph/neo/cross groups (and some eclectic and heavy).
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Only 3 waves for me. The last was the 90's prog revival which also included bands like Radiohead and Mansun as well as Angalgard and Spocks Beard. I would also include prog metal bands as well. What is called prog rock is now very diversified stylistically and can even draw from punk and new wave as well as classic. To call anything a 'wave' suggests there is a common mentality , I don't believe there is. the 90's revival of rock music (not just prog) was to a certain extent a reaction against the plastic production MTV dominated music of the 80's and prog benefited greatly from that.
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Tend to agree with you, the current scene is so diverse you can't really group them at all.
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