Pink Floyd and the Great Labeling Wars of '20 |
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Scorpius
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 22 2016 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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Posted: September 09 2020 at 16:26 |
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I think I'm about to commit progarchives suicide...
So in my last post in this forum "So, Who Exactly is a Member of the Big Six" I sure did get a lot of responses. One of the main things being argued about was whether or not Pink Floyd is progressive/ a progressive rock band. Of course no one came to a conclusion because no one wanted to pick a uniform question and work from there.
"Is Pink Floyd progressive" and "Is Pink Floyd a progressive rock band" are very different questions, and in order to answer either we must address what we mean by progressive in both. In the first question, progressive can be defined as "Music that is influential in a way that reshapes the way the song-writing and recording processes are approached" and "Music that uses familiar instrumentation of a genre to explore and create new forms of expression". "Progressive" in this context isn't a genre of music, which is why the question "Is Pink Floyd progressive" is a bit redundant. Replace the word progressive in that question with one of the definitions I provided. "Is Pink Floyd influential in a way that reshaped the way the song-writing and recording process is approached?" "Does Pink Floyd use familiar instrumentation of the rock genre to explore and create new forms of expression?" In my opinion (not one of those!) yes. In the second question, progressive can be defined as "A genre of music that incorporates a wide array of instrumentation, complex time signatures, incredible technique and elements of genres such as jazz and classical music." Think back through their discography to albums like Atom Heart Mother, Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here and Animals and ask yourself "Is Pink Floyd a band that incorporates a wide array of instrumentation, complex time signatures, incredible technique and elements of genres such as jazz and classical music?" In my opinion (oh god not another one) yes. Was Pink Floyd always progressive? Yeah, kind of. Piper at the Gates, though not Progressive Rock, is undoubtedly progressive in the sense that it was exploratory and unique, and basically gave birth to the genre of space rock. That is what progressive music means to me, it is music that points in a direction and says "Hey that sounded pretty freaky man maybe we should explore that some more" and new ideas and genres of music are born. Even with all that being said, I still don't think I have the correct opinion. How could I? Perception is so subjective that you might think one thing is progressive that I might think sounds like Kokomo by the Beach Boys. I felt compelled to make this post because I think this entire argument is arbitrary and I wanted to shine a light on the more argumentative side of this community. My last post on the prog lounge forum got pretty nasty with people arguing about the most arbitrary and brain-dead stuff. It seems like everyone is so caught up arguing like this on this website that were avoiding the original point of the community in the first place, to celebrate and enjoy a difference of opinion. Now, instead of discussing what we like or dislike about music in a friendly and constructive way, we argue about whether or not a band is classified as "this" or "that" and completely forget why we have these opinions in the first place. So what then? Am I trying to start a conversation about what genre Pink Floyd is or am I trying to make a point about letting your opinion get in the way of a good laugh? You guys be the judge, I'll reap the consequences once they've been sewn. |
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The most dangerous man in America.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 15057 |
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"What is Prog?"
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 41381 |
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prog is what?
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20219 |
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Is prog what?
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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Scorpius
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 22 2016 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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maybe read the post, I provide several definitions. |
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The most dangerous man in America.
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Sacro_Porgo
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 15 2019 Location: Cygnus Status: Offline Points: 2052 |
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I think on the strength of Animals alone they're a prog band. They certainly influenced a lot of prog bands.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 16288 |
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That's maybe their most stereotypical prog sounding album but probably not their most progressive if you know what I mean.
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FatherChristmas
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 30 2020 Location: LandofGrey&Pink Status: Offline Points: 2457 |
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Well, if Pink Floyd aren't prog, we'd better shut down progarchives and shoot ourselves in the foot. That's what they said when I asked about Steven Wilson.
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"Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp
"I am an anti-Christ" - Johnny Rotten |
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AFlowerKingCrimson
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 02 2016 Location: Philly burbs Status: Offline Points: 16288 |
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Hmmmm. Where have I heard that before?
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dougmcauliffe
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 23 2019 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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I like how everybody brings up the 4/4 argument in whether or not something can be labeled prog, but for some reason Lady Fantasy, Court of The Crimson King, Epitaph and Aqualung all get a pass yet people still give Dogs and Echoes sh*t. Just annoying people sitting up on their high prog throne armchair.
Edited by dougmcauliffe - September 09 2020 at 18:08 |
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Catcher10
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Your question technically is asking the wrong question because here on PA there is no music genre category labelled "Progressive Rock". All the categories are sub-genres of Progressive Music, they all lead up to Progressive Music, the over riding umbrella here on PA.
Its the same thing as a Family Tree, you ultimately are connected to the top family member. So being listed here the bands can be called Progressive Music or bands that make/made progressive music. Pink Floyd is labeled Psychedelic/Space Rock so that is really the only thing you can question if you want.....To answer your question YES they are considered Progressive Music, or in general terms they are a progressive rock band.
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The Dark Elf
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Let's not forget "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" is all over the place, time signature-wise: Parts II–IV and the first half of V are in 6/8. The second half of V is in 12/8, as is VI. It transitions back to 6/8 for VII. VIII and IX are both 4/4 (and IX is a 4/4 funeral march, at least that's what Gilmour said, "the parting eulogy to Syd"). Not to mention Gilmour's overt blues variations thrown in here and there. As far as Tull, many of their tunes are almost completely odd time signatures, like "Living in the Past, which is in the decidedly different 5/4 time. Or this song, which is a change of time waiting to happen.... |
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Disconnect
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 02 2007 Location: Syracuse, NY Status: Offline Points: 254 |
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It's all pop music to my ears...and I love it all.
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Sacro_Porgo
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I do know what you mean actually! I think Floyd are definitely quite progressive as well, looking to their earlier psych stuff as well as DSOTM and Meddle as evidence. They definitely pushed a lot of boundaries and also made at least some music which sits well alongside the likes of Genesis and Yes.
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Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 12410 |
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Pink Floyd is a great band, either it gets the labels of being progressive or not. I quite enjoy their music and that's all I care about.
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Boboulo
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Who can be really surprised with this David Gilmour's statement from an interview given to a journalist of "Q" magazine in 1999? David Gilmour's (great) solos are slow, bluesy, and firmly rooted in the blues-based Psychedelic rock sound of the time. Insisting on odd time signatures, what is the main feature of Progressive rock genre, is quite rare or missing in Pink Floyd music; only such song is "Money". During their "Ummagumma" era, Pink Floyd were quite experimental, but if you really look at the music, it's not Progressive rock in its true form; it is experimental, but still Psychedelic rock. Also some parts of "Animals" LP, which people often point out as an example of Pink Floyd's breakthrough towards Progressive rock, has more in common with Art Rock than Progressive Rock. On another thread I already mentioned the historical fact that in the 70's the term "Psychedelic rock" and Pink Floyd were almost synonyms. So it's not a coincidence that Progarchives' founders had classifed Pink Floyd as "Psychedelic rock" band. And who can have a problem with that? Only those who consider the tag "prog" as a badge of honor. Of course, this is deeply wrong, because the fact that Pink Floyd were the leaders of the Psychedelic rock movement does not diminish the importance of their music; on the contrary, that puts them on the eternal pedestal of the greatest band of Psychedelia as one of the most important movements of the twentieth century.
Edited by Boboulo - September 09 2020 at 23:49 |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 41381 |
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^ ok Boubulo, you believe PF is not prog rock. Noted. Good for you. Now you can stop.
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Yeah, David Gilmour hated Yes so much I heard that he tried to run over Jon Anderson with his motorcycle. ;)
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judahbenkenobi
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You think labeling Pink Floyd is controversial? Try asking which Pink Floyd is better: pre- or post-Roger Waters
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 41381 |
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does pre-Waters mean the Syd period? |
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