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My take on "The End" by the Doors

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BaldFriede View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 15 2021 at 13:02
"The End" is one of the most famous songs ever, but I think there is more to it than most people guess.

There is the infamous moment in the song where Jim Morrison repeats the f-word several times and the music simulates sexual intercourse. But who is the sexual intercourse with?

Well, there is the line "Father, I want to kill you. Mother, I want to ...". It is not told what he wants, but we can guess.

The next line is interesting though: "Come on, baby, take a chance with us", which is repeated twice and then followed by "And meet me at the back of the blue bus doin' a blue rug, on a blue bus, doin' a come on yeah".

Now who is saying this? The father? Certainly not. So it is the mother. She meets him at the back of the blue bus where they have sexual intercourse.

So my take is: This song is not just about wishing to have sex with the mother, it actually happens


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2021 at 16:57
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

"The End" is one of the most famous songs ever, but I think there is more to it than most people guess.

There is the infamous moment in the song where Jim Morrison repeats the f-word several times and the music simulates sexual intercourse. But who is the sexual intercourse with?

Well, there is the line "Father, I want to kill you. Mother, I want to ...". It is not told what he wants, but we can guess.

The next line is interesting though: "Come on, baby, take a chance with us", which is repeated twice and then followed by "And meet me at the back of the blue bus doin' a blue rug, on a blue bus, doin' a come on yeah".

Now who is saying this? The father? Certainly not. So it is the mother. She meets him at the back of the blue bus where they have sexual intercourse.

So my take is: This song is not just about wishing to have sex with the mother, it actually happens

It's an Oedipal song. When sung live, Morrison yells: "Mother....I want to...f-u-c-k you!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2021 at 02:07
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

"The End" is one of the most famous songs ever, but I think there is more to it than most people guess.

There is the infamous moment in the song where Jim Morrison repeats the f-word several times and the music simulates sexual intercourse. But who is the sexual intercourse with?

Well, there is the line "Father, I want to kill you. Mother, I want to ...". It is not told what he wants, but we can guess.

The next line is interesting though: "Come on, baby, take a chance with us", which is repeated twice and then followed by "And meet me at the back of the blue bus doin' a blue rug, on a blue bus, doin' a come on yeah".

Now who is saying this? The father? Certainly not. So it is the mother. She meets him at the back of the blue bus where they have sexual intercourse.

So my take is: This song is not just about wishing to have sex with the mother, it actually happens

It's an Oedipal song. When sung live, Morrison yells: "Mother....I want to...f-u-c-k you!"

Yes, I know that.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ronstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2021 at 02:59
Brilliantly parodies by Frank Zappa on 'Tiny Sick Tears'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2021 at 04:38
Originally posted by Ronstein Ronstein wrote:

Brilliantly parodies by Frank Zappa on 'Tiny Sick Tears'

that's really funny LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2021 at 10:55
I remember this being discussed eons ago when I lived in Southern California, it was either KMET or KLOS that had discussion on it. Don't know about it being one of the "most famous songs ever.." but could be one of the most important songs in The Doors discography.
Being that it was released in 1967 there are a lot of thoughts on the song meanings since then, it is about death but with some twists.
Smoking 14 bowls of stuff will take you down some dark paths as you listen to the song.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 11:35
I have apparently been misunderstood. The point I was trying to make is not that the protagonist of "The End" wants to kill his father and f*** his mother; everyone knows that. My point is that after he announces this to his parents the mother says: "Alright, son; let's do it". She is the one that says "Come on, baby, take a chance with us and meet me at the back of the blue bus".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 14:54
What makes you think it's the mother? It could be a departure from the past lyric. In Robby's book, Jim supposedly told Robby how he should never tell people about the audience about the meaning of the song, and that sometimes a listener will come up with better interpretation.

"The End" is my 2nd favorite song ever. The Doors was what got me into the music I listen to, but his lyrics seem to have multiple meanings, and possibly no meaning. I could see him pulling a Lennon on "Glass Onions" where he's not concerned with what the listener understands, and possibly playing around. Not necessarily to confuse the listener, but it's possible. He was an interesting fella. And very funny, which is never mentioned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 15:05
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:

What makes you think it's the mother? It could be a departure from the past lyric. In Robby's book, Jim supposedly told Robby how he should never tell people about the audience about the meaning of the song, and that sometimes a listener will come up with better interpretation.

"The End" is my 2nd favorite song ever. The Doors was what got me into the music I listen to, but his lyrics seem to have multiple meanings, and possibly no meaning. I could see him pulling a Lennon on "Glass Onions" where he's not concerned with what the listener understands, and possibly playing around. Not necessarily to confuse the listener, but it's possible. He was an interesting fella. And very funny, which is never mentioned.

The line "Come on, baby, take a chance with us and meet me at the back of the blue bus doin' a blue rug" follows immediately after the protagonist utters "Father, I want to kill you. Mother, I want to...", and who but father, mother and the protagonist are there at that moment? And "Come on, baby, take a chance with us" definitely is a reply to the intentions the protagonist declared.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 17:56
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The line "Come on, baby, take a chance with us and meet me at the back of the blue bus doin' a blue rug" follows immediately after the protagonist utters "Father, I want to kill you. Mother, I want to...", and who but father, mother and the protagonist are there at that moment? And "Come on, baby, take a chance with us" definitely is a reply to the intentions the protagonist declared.
 
Why do you think it's a reply to the protagonist, and not the protagonist himself saying this?
 
I listened to the track immediately before writing this post and I couldn't establish that it's a reply. Why would the mother say "Come on, baby, take a chance with us" after the protagonist had already declared his intentions?
 
However, in the recording I listened to, the protagonist didn't actually say what he wanted to do to his mother, nor what he did to his sister, nor brother, nor whether he actually killed his father. But it does seem clear that he had sex with his mother.
 



Edited by I prophesy disaster - November 21 2021 at 17:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 18:44
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The line "Come on, baby, take a chance with us and meet me at the back of the blue bus doin' a blue rug" follows immediately after the protagonist utters "Father, I want to kill you. Mother, I want to...", and who but father, mother and the protagonist are there at that moment? And "Come on, baby, take a chance with us" definitely is a reply to the intentions the protagonist declared.
 
Why do you think it's a reply to the protagonist, and not the protagonist himself saying this?
 
I listened to the track immediately before writing this post and I couldn't establish that it's a reply. Why would the mother say "Come on, baby, take a chance with us" after the protagonist had already declared his intentions?
 
However, in the recording I listened to, the protagonist didn't actually say what he wanted to do to his mother, nor what he did to his sister, nor brother, nor whether he actually killed his father. But it does seem clear that he had sex with his mother.
 


Why would the protagonist say "Come on, baby, take a chance with us"? Only the mother could say this. It is her son; she does not want him to kill the father.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 18:57
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

The line "Come on, baby, take a chance with us and meet me at the back of the blue bus doin' a blue rug" follows immediately after the protagonist utters "Father, I want to kill you. Mother, I want to...", and who but father, mother and the protagonist are there at that moment? And "Come on, baby, take a chance with us" definitely is a reply to the intentions the protagonist declared.
 
Why do you think it's a reply to the protagonist, and not the protagonist himself saying this?
 
I listened to the track immediately before writing this post and I couldn't establish that it's a reply. Why would the mother say "Come on, baby, take a chance with us" after the protagonist had already declared his intentions?
 
However, in the recording I listened to, the protagonist didn't actually say what he wanted to do to his mother, nor what he did to his sister, nor brother, nor whether he actually killed his father. But it does seem clear that he had sex with his mother.
 


Why would the protagonist say "Come on, baby, take a chance with us"? Only the mother could say this. It is her son; she does not want him to kill the father.

The fact Morrison refers to the protagonist as "The killer (awoke before dawn)" infers that he is relating the murder of his father in the past tense. Dude died.

Also, not connected but interesting in regards to the term "blue rug":

The Meaning of Blue in Persian Rugs
Blue Persian rug stands for power, but also solitude – an allusion to the afterlife. Therefore, it is very often paired with the motifs expressing hope for life after death, like the tree of life or cypresses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 19:17
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Why would the protagonist say "Come on, baby, take a chance with us"?
 
To convince his mother to willingly have sex with him.
 
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Only the mother could say this. It is her son
 
The way I see it, "baby" can refer either to a child (including an adult child), or a woman. Thus, the use of this word doesn't itself indicate who's talking.
 
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

she does not want him to kill the father
 
That is a fair point and one I did consider. But if that is why she said "Come on, baby, take a chance with us", then it changes her motivation from wanting to have sex with her son to merely complying with his intentions in order to protect the father. Then the whole incest thing rests squarely with the protagonist.
 



Edited by I prophesy disaster - November 21 2021 at 19:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 19:24
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

"The killer (awoke before dawn)"
 
I assumed that he was saying that in way similar to the way Peter Hammill is singing "A killer (lives inside me)" in Man-Erg.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BaldFriede Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 20:36
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Why would the protagonist say "Come on, baby, take a chance with us"?
 
To convince his mother to willingly have sex with him.
 
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Only the mother could say this. It is her son
 
The way I see it, "baby" can refer either to a child (including an adult child), or a woman. Thus, the use of this word doesn't itself indicate who's talking.
 
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

she does not want him to kill the father
 
That is a fair point and one I did consider. But if that is why she said "Come on, baby, take a chance with us", then it changes her motivation from wanting to have sex with her son to merely complying with his intentions in order to protect the father. Then the whole incest thing rests squarely with the protagonist.
 


I did not want to imply the mother wanted to have sex with her son; it is the other way round. The motivation for the mother is unclear; perhaps she only complies to protect the father.

As to using the word "baby": This does in my opinion not make any sense when coming from the son. He called the mother "mother" just a moment ago and now is supposed to call her "baby"? Highly improbable.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 22:06
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

As to using the word "baby": This does in my opinion not make any sense when coming from the son. He called the mother "mother" just a moment ago and now is supposed to call her "baby"? Highly improbable.
 
Good point. However, the difference is that when he called her "mother", he was referring to her as his mother, but when he called her "baby" (assuming he did so), he was referring to her as a sex object.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2021 at 22:19
Hi,

Reading about this piece of music, and how much trouble it got the band into on the book "No One Here Gets Out Alive" ... I am not sure that this is an Oedipal thing, although it could be knowing how literary and educated members of The Doors were, and being in a well known school that only accepts the better students around!

The thing that makes this song important for me, is not the string of thoughts that we see here ... it is that the band got thrown out of the Whiskey, and basically "fired" for extending and doing this song ... and I honestly think that this was an analogy for folks to get behind the band, not the Whiskey or anything else ... in that this was the event that got noticed in all the rock press and immediately the band shot out to be known for its incredible stuff, and specially this piece, although according to the book there were many versions and some were longer and had more poetry right in the middle of it.

I don't know for sure that the lyrics of this song were/should be taken literally. Jim did not have a good time with his dad according to the book, but when his father was given a massive this and that, and there was a party, Jim's mother asked him to shave and cut his hair and Jim said no, and never went or showed up. The book suggests it was the last time he talked to his mother. Even though the book makes it clear that her husband becoming a big name in the military world, had a total opposite in the son in the rock world ... but the father had already "disowned" his son!

So, in the personal sense, the lyrics are on par with the reality except that I see one thing that might be weird ... the opposite of death is life, and we symbolize life with sex ... thus the two opposites in this example, and I am not sure that there was any kind of feeling in the song about the idea that we suggest here. 

But I tend to hold to the thought that the lyrics were made that way to get attention, and to rip apart the folks that were owning the clubs and specially the turkey at the Whiskey, who ended up taking quite a beating when The Doors made it huge, right on his doorstep and he could not see it! 

But the fact of the matter was, that it was Jim's presentation of the words that got the audience so into the whole thing that you could hear a pin drop!

I don't think that we will find a single band these days that can even hold a match to this kind of attention and performance. Mostly, these days, the rock fans, do not appreciate the importance of words and how they are used, because they want their thrash, solo and scream ... and nothing else. But in those days, when The Doors played, many of us, were stone quiet ... it was like going to church, I guess you could say!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MortSahlFan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2021 at 04:13
Jim's sister Anne said she they talked about the lyric, and that Jim mentioned the book, "In Cold Blood".... It could be true, but it could also have been to protect the family, but they seemed to have a good relationship (Andy, too, as adults) for her to lie about her dead brother's legacy.

And in response to Oedipus, I thought the son was unaware they were his parents, those he killed and f**ked.

I'd add one more thing. There are no rules for writing. I don't think Jim was thinking, "I better make this clear, especially for future fans".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 23 2021 at 04:17
Originally posted by MortSahlFan MortSahlFan wrote:


And in response to Oedipus, I thought the son was unaware they were his parents, those he killed and f**ked.


yes, that's true. Didn't he cut his eyes out as self punishment when he realized what he did? 
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