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Genesis in the 80's

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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 01 2021 at 20:27
I was going to do Yes in the 80's but since I'm going to see Genesis in a couple of days I thought I would do this one first.

The 80's music of Genesis is very controversial among most prog fans primarily because it's their most commercial period and when they transitioned from more or less pure prog(how prog And there were three is is debatable though) to a more pop sound. 

I actually like much of the music from this era. I just feel that I have to turn off my prog expectations and appreciate it for what it is and that for me is very good pop-rock. I used to refer to it as pop until someone pointed out that it's more pop-rock. Some of it is still pop and not so much rock to me but I won't get caught up on particulars here. The point is the music became much more pop oriented. 

I think the main catalyst for this more pop oriented direction(at least in my opinion) was a song from the tail end of the previous decade called "follow you follow me." I believe it was their biggest hit up to that point in time(at least in the US). "I know what I like (in your wardrobe) was a minor hit in the UK(# 21) when it first came out but didn't dent the US charts(The album it's from made it to number 70 in the US though which while not great could still be a lot worse). Before "follow you follow me" Genesis apparently had a mostly male following. Most of these fans were probably fans of prog rock in general and so they probably became very critical of the band when Steve Hackett left(a similiar thing happened when Yes recorded 90125 but that's a whole other matter). 

Genesis started the 80's with Duke which made it to number 11 in the US charts. This album sort of sees a split down the middle between prog tracks (Behind the Lines, Duchess, Cul De Sac, Dukes Travels/Dukes End) and the more pop oriented songs on the album(Alone tonight, Please Don't Ask, Turn It On Again(it's in an unusual time signature but it's still very much a pop tune), and misunderstanding. Most of the others are somewhere in the middle but probably closer to pop than prog. While "man of our times" isn't really either one it does have an interesting drumming pattern to it that would probably disqualify it from being pure pop. So overall a very good album that apparently saw the band trying to throw a bone to their old fans while also trying to find a newer audience and a much larger one at that. It worked and that album was their biggest when it came out up to that point in time.

Next up we have Abacab which some people humorously refer to as "grab a cab" or maybe even "abacrap." This one follows in much the same style as Duke with pop tracks mixed in with pop. However, many people seem to think it is even a further step in the pop direction. I'm not sure I agree but if it is then it's only slightly more poppish imo. This album still had two songs that were very much prog (the title track and Dodo/lurker). The rest are either more or less pure pop(another record, like it or not, no reply at all) or somewhere in between(keep it dark). "Me and Sarah Jane" is mostly poppish but it's not as overtly pop as some of the tracks on here.

Next up we have the self titled (or "shapes") album from 1983. This one is a much more obvious transition to mostly full blown pop in my opinion although like the two before it has plenty of quirky pop songs(mama, illegal alien and just a job to do come to mind). It does however feature the two part Home By the Sea and Second Home By the Sea which is the most proggish track on the album. For a long time this was my favorite Genesis song (that changed when I heard Supper's Ready). The last song on this album(silver rainbow)is maybe my second favorite and probably the albums most underrated track. 

Finally, we have the Invisible Touch album. This was the band's biggest selling album(six times platinum in the US). In my opinion this is a slight return to a more prog sound but done in a very modern way with pop sensibilities. This album also seems to be throwing a bone to both the prog and pop fans though. If there was ever a prog pop anthem for the eighties it may very well be "tonight, tonight, tonight." A few of these songs were top 40 hits and a few were played a lot on rock radio and mtv(especially "land of confusion"). The most prog sounding track on the album was probably the two part "Domino." While those expecting "firth of fifth" or "the musical box" might be disappointed this was very much prog by 80's Genesis standards. The final track on the album which was the instrumental called "the Brazilian" was also very prog rockish. Another mixed of an album but for me it's maybe the second best combination of prog and pop the band ever did(behind Duke). 

While I still prefer 70's Genesis above anything else, I nonetheless have a soft spot for Genesis in the eighties no doubt because that's when I first discovered Genesis and prog in general. For those going to see Genesis for this current tour in 2021 you will very likely enjoy yourself and have fun as long as you don't expect a full on prog extravaganza. 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - December 01 2021 at 20:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 20:31
I think some of the records aren't terrible, Duke being the best of them all by far. But Abacrap does suck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 20:55
Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

I think some of the records aren't terrible, Duke being the best of them all by far. But Abacrap does suck.

It sucks in what way?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 21:43
I was going to point out the lamentable "We Can't Dance" album, but that was 1991. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 21:59
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

I was going to point out the lamentable "We Can't Dance" album, but that was 1991. 


Yep. It sort of belongs but it came out in the 1990's. 

People can criticize these albums but they are still better than calling all stations. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 01 2021 at 22:42
Unlike many of the haters, i actually am quite fond of the self-titled album, Abacab and Invisible Touch.

Even though i'm the hugest progger, i actually prefer them to Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme!

Just my preferences :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 00:34
Duke is excellent.

The other three though are uneven, the self-titled being the best out of those. 

I still listen to 80s Genesis every once in a while, sure I skip the songs that don't do much for me anymore and those I've never liked anyway like Whodunnit or Anything She Does. 

Interesting to listen to the Genesis Archives to see songs that did not make the cut on the albums or were B-sides. Some of those songs were really good - Submarime, Evidence of Autumn, Feeding the Fire, Naminanu, Do the Neurotic. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 02:04
I picked up on Genesis around late 1984. I was 15 at the time.

After hearing Dance on a Volcano and the 1978 Knebworth set on a late night rock show in the UK, I set about investigating this band, in the way we all went about acquainting ourselves with an interesting band in the pre internet era. Although tracks like Mama caught me my ear at the time, it soon became obvious that my favourite era of the band was 1970 - 1980.

My feelings about 80's Genesis are mixed.
Duke is a great album; their last truly 'great' album IMO. Despite a few lows (Misunderstanding and Please Don't Ask) the album has some fantastic prog sections, and has the feel of a confident band, finding it's signature sound for the time.

Abacab is weak in comparison, and to me, despite some relative high points (Sarah Jane & Dodo/Lurker) sounds like a collection of 'ideas' and studio out takes. Experiments with drum machines, and a cold stripped down sound, and that of a band that had long passed their creative peak.

Genesis despite being an overall pop album, and arguably less experimental than Abacab, is a much superior album, yielding only one turkey of a song in Illegal Alien. Mama is dark and atmospheric and really not very commercial, although ironically it hit the number 2 spot in the UK singles charts. The Home by the Sea tracks became exciting and tense live staples in subsequent tours and overall the songwriting on this album was ticking many boxes for me.

Invisible Touch was really the end artistically. I can still enjoy Domino, but overall this is an out and out pop album, with some of the ballads really being more suitable for a Collins solo album, and having no place on a Genesis release IMO.

I persevered, and bought We Can't Dance when it was released (although this was 1991, I still regard this album as being part of the 80's Genesis story). I liked No son of Mine, but again the album was a deep dive into banality. By the time of IT & WCD, the band were selling out stadiums night after night, and shifting albums in their millions. Good luck to them. They'd more than earned their stripes, it's just a shame what they had to let go of to achieve that commercial recognition and success.

Fading Lights closed this era. Ironically my favourite song of the whole Duke to WCD era, but it was clear that 'The Day the Lights went out' had long passed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 02:11
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:



Invisible Touch was really the end artistically. I can still enjoy Domino, but overall this is an out and out pop album, with some of the ballads really being more suitable for a Collins solo album, and having no place on a Genesis release IMO.

.

The two ballads on IT were not written by Collins. Throwing It All away is a Mike Rutherford song and In Too Deep is a Tony Banks song. 

If anyone wants to bash Phil, as far as I remember (I could check again if you prove me wrong), he wrote Please Don't Ask Me and Misunderstanding on Duke and Man on a Corner on Abacab. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 02:40
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:



Invisible Touch was really the end artistically. I can still enjoy Domino, but overall this is an out and out pop album, with some of the ballads really being more suitable for a Collins solo album, and having no place on a Genesis release IMO.

.


The two ballads on IT were not written by Collins. Throwing It All away is a Mike Rutherford song and In Too Deep is a Tony Banks song. 

If anyone wants to bash Phil, as far as I remember (I could check again if you prove me wrong), he wrote Please Don't Ask Me and Misunderstanding on Duke and Man on a Corner on Abacab. 


Yes that's true, but they just sound better suited to a Collins effort.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 02:46
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:



Invisible Touch was really the end artistically. I can still enjoy Domino, but overall this is an out and out pop album, with some of the ballads really being more suitable for a Collins solo album, and having no place on a Genesis release IMO.

.


The two ballads on IT were not written by Collins. Throwing It All away is a Mike Rutherford song and In Too Deep is a Tony Banks song. 

If anyone wants to bash Phil, as far as I remember (I could check again if you prove me wrong), he wrote Please Don't Ask Me and Misunderstanding on Duke and Man on a Corner on Abacab. 


Yes that's true, but they just sound better suited to a Collins effort.

Phil's solo albums are very hit and miss with me, but pop Genesis, that I can take, with minor exceptions. 

Genesis pop ballads are better than any ballad Phil did on his own. That's because of the other two guys in Genesis. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ronstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 02:50
They lost me after Steve Hackett left. Just found their music much less interesting and involving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 02:55
Nice introduction/presentation, Mike! For me too, these were the albums that got me acquainted with Genesis. I've always found Duke a bit dull, but Abacab is still one of the Genesis albums I play most often (with The Lamb...) - I like it very much, including the more humorous tracks. The self titled album is a nice listen too, with a couple of splendid tracks (with Second Home by the Sea the volume always goes up...). I never found any interest in Invisible Touch, though; maybe a bit too poppy for me.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 09:58
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

Nice introduction/presentation, Mike! For me too, these were the albums that got me acquainted with Genesis. I've always found Duke a bit dull, but Abacab is still one of the Genesis albums I play most often (with The Lamb...) - I like it very much, including the more humorous tracks. The self titled album is a nice listen too, with a couple of splendid tracks (with Second Home by the Sea the volume always goes up...). I never found any interest in Invisible Touch, though; maybe a bit too poppy for me.


Thanks. I don't really post as much as I used to so for now my focus will be on writing reviews and blogs(not too many blogs though). I like to share my experiences about the music and since I'm seeing them tomorrow thought I would write a bit about their most successful period. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 10:05
I like all the Genesis albums from the 80's. They get a bad rap on PA. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 10:32
Duke is a masterful album, but it runs too long. "Heathaze" and "Please Don't Ask" belong on solo albums.

Abacab is my very favorite Genesis album, but I'm biased because it was also my first Genesis album. I bought it after hearing the extended title track on the radio. I've been a fan ever since.

Genesis aka Shapes is also a masterful album. Even the obvious hit singles/video opportunities are tolerable.

Invisible Touch...let's just say that I still own this album, but it's been a long long LONG time since I've listened to it. Very much of its time rather than timeless, it's the Genesis album I would miss least if it suddenly vanished from the face of the earth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 10:50
My introduction to Genesis was through their "Shapes" album, an impulse purchase I made in 1984. From there I travelled back through their catalog. So the 1980s period is sentimental for me and Genesis made music that was more interesting than a lot of other stuff released during the same time given my limited knowledge of what was actually out at the time when I was a teenager. For instance, I was completely ignorant of what was going on in avant-prog circles during this time period, a discovery I wouldn't make for about another 30 years.

I agree with Cristi that their albums are uneven and there was some really great unreleased stuff (B sides, etc.) that would have made some of these albums better than they were. 

Having said that, I think another improvement would be replacing the electronic drums with an acoustic kit on some of the songs. I actually like the Roland CR-78 drum machine they use on Duchess and the Linn LM-1 on Mama, However, songs like The Last Domino and Second Home by the Sea would have sounded better with an acoustic kit in my uninformed opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Catcher10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2021 at 11:35
I am biased as Genesis is my #2 band behind Rush. I love all Genesis, although I find CAS tough to call a Genesis album Big smile
It's all great music, all of it. I first heard Genesis when Seconds Out was released in 1977, some of it was played on the FM by the great LA station KMET 94.7, they spun a lot of prog and obscure stuff. Plus I have always been a live album lover. That album started my love for Genesis, honestly the earlier albums were a tough listen for a teenager in SoCal, I did not get the English meanings. But I grew to love the artistry and massive musicianship, Phil is an amazing drummer. 
Hackett leaving really did not bother me much, I do enjoy his playing but the band were clearly on another path by then, and for me Hackett's solo material is pretty boring, although I enjoy the first two albums quite alot. His recent material is what is boring he, Ritchie Blackmore and Uli Jon Roth drink from the same fountain.....

Genesis as a whole cannot be ignored in any discussion, that discography is amazing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King of Loss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2021 at 21:52
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by King of Loss King of Loss wrote:

I think some of the records aren't terrible, Duke being the best of them all by far. But Abacrap does suck.

It sucks in what way?

Sorry for the late response. It's just one of the worst records I've ever heard, especially from a band that made Foxtrot, Selling England by the Pound, Nursery Cryme and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2021 at 02:45
Duke is my favourite 1980's Genesis album. All the other albums are uneven: they have some fine moments, some filler and some crap. Abacab is just mediocre, with the half-unfinished title track, Keep it Dark and the excellent Dodo/Lurker as highlights.
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