PA the only site to recognize J-R Fusion as Prog? |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7305 |
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I don't care what other sites say, I really enjoy the intelligence and banter among everyone on PA!! I've learned a great deal, have been introduced to many bands I never would have found on my own, and feel as though I've contributed.
The Prog Music journey, for musicians (I'm one), fans and family, is a very personal experience involving discovery, excitement and, yes, a bit of risk on occasion. I like being here, where the boundaries can be pushed and definitions have some "give." "Yes, Virginia, Jazz-Rock Fusion is Prog."
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Online Points: 15171 |
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I understand indeed what you're saying, as it's also very personal for not so few of us what to consider as being Progressive Rock.
Edited by David_D - September 20 2024 at 05:16 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7305 |
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Do you then consider JRF as a part of prog? |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20610 |
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Sure. Everything is prog now, including the Archies.
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Online Points: 15171 |
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I consider JRF as a part of progressive music - even I've always loved not so little of Jazz-Rock/Fusion, and today, JRF may be my second most favourite sub-genre of progressive music, next after Symphonic Prog (including RPI). Edited by David_D - September 20 2024 at 08:47 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21206 |
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JRF and Prog intersect, and because of that it makes sense to include JRF. But obviously not all JRF releases are Prog.
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bardberic
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 02 2021 Location: PA, USA/Israel Status: Offline Points: 871 |
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I agree with its inclusion here.
Incidentally, I'm building a genre tree and have jazz fusion under progressive music, and jazz rock under jazz fusion and rock. Not always (nor typically) "true" progressive rock, but is an expression of more artistic popular forms of music in a general sense (eg, progressive music, the umbrella for prog rock, prog metal, prog pop, etc.) Edited by bardberic - September 20 2024 at 07:58 |
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MikeEnRegalia
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^ If it's an actual tree (where all elements have only one parent), I'd like to see how you square rock/metal and prog/non-prog ... I think it's a major challenge
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Online Points: 15171 |
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It'd be interesting for me to see which genres you'll include as progressive music, as I certainly find it to be something of a challenge to define this umbrella - even I have some ideas.
Edited by David_D - September 20 2024 at 09:39 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 36104 |
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I think most any genre can have progressive music within it, and of course genres can overlap and fuse with other genres, which in itself can be very progressive.
I commonly include "art", "experimental" and "progressive" music together. A little digression... I had wanted to make a site years ago that focused on modern (say 1950 up) art, experimental and progressive music. This would include modern classical, art music, electronic, folkly, rocky, art pop..., post-punk jazz and jazzy music and more, more, more.. Sun Ra would be there, so would Stockhausen, so would King Crimson, Laurie Anderson, Velvet Underground etc. etc. If it weren't for this forum, I would find PA too limited in scope, despite its great variety, to maintain my interest for all of these years. By the way, and I am expressing myself badly, the fusion of genres is such a common characteristic of Progressive Rock that including Jazz-Rock Fusion especially seems a good fit (but not all need apply). Already taking jazz qualities if common in well recognised and more stereotypical in style symph rock bands. And many jazz bands took a similar route by incorporating rock and other genres. Basically as Mike said, I say that Prog and JRF intersect, and they overlap. It all is or all isn't presents a false dichotomy. There's a spectrum etc. |
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Starshiper
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 36104 |
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I've never been on the JR/T team nor have I seen it said what the derivation was, but I see it as denoting a separation, and I see it as related, and overlapping. Of course PA does it with a few categories that have relations. Jazz Fusion that incorporates rock and Jazz-Rock are commonly treated as different entities and that category includes both.
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7305 |
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I could agree with that, BUT the actual definition of "prog" still evades me. Is it musical virtuosity, above & beyond what conventional, blues-based rock employs? If that were the case, then the blazing guitar solo in "Rock Around the Clock" would qualify!! I really must confess that the definition of "prog" continues to evade me. However, I know what I like.
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MikeEnRegalia
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^ Ok, here's yet another attempt to define "prog" in a short paragraph:
"prog takes conventional music of a given genre and expands on it in terms of musical prowess, experimentation, grandeur, complexity, improvisation, lyrical depth etc.. usually in more than one of these dimensions."
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17361 |
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I can think of a few neo bands that totally missed the mark on "usually (in) more than one of these dimensions." |
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cstack3
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But what about electronic prog, which created new musical forms out of nothing? I'm thinking of Tangerine Dream specifically. I suppose one could quibble whether it should be called "rock," but the use of rock instrumentation would seem to allow for it.
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Nogbad_The_Bad
Forum & Site Admin Group RIO/Avant/Zeuhl & Eclectic Team Joined: March 16 2007 Location: Boston Status: Offline Points: 20912 |
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Doesn't capture a lot of avant / zeuhl euther.
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Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
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MikeEnRegalia
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^ I was only taking a casual swing at the definition, feel free to expand
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17361 |
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Experimentation, first and foremostly! That was a completely new thing. Then grandeur and complexity followed, though some of the fandom still prefer the earlier spaced-out Dream. |
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Hrychu
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5386 |
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Prog, and especially prog rock imo isn't just that. What for me separates prog rock from any other kind of experimental rock music is that in addition to the complex and unconventional elements, in has to in some way also reference the progressive rock classics. |
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