PA the only site to recognize J-R Fusion as Prog? |
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BrufordFreak
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I can see and appreciate the value of having an album-by-album categorization system. My favorite case in point: Miles Davis. (Yeah that's right, Freak: beat it to death!) |
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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17274 |
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Yes / No |
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poseído del alba
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I think of it as prog friendly. However, as progressive music inherently tends to blend different genres, I think it's a plus to include jr fusion and others "in the outer realms of prog", as somebody said
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cstack3
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Oh God yes!! King Crimson is a crossover of J-R Fusion and Symphonic, and JRF has influenced all of the main symphonic acts including Yes, ELP, Genesis etc. I love the virtuosity that many J-R Fusion players including John McLaughlin (aka "God"), the late/great John Goodsall, Chick Corea etc. If anything, I'd wish for more generous interaction between JRF and other prog categories. Here, watch his playing, ye mighty, and despair!! I mean, Steve Howe is fast, but this guy is sick!! |
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15254 |
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It's kind of a spectrum. When does red stop being red and become another color? There's a transition through various wavelengths. Same goes with music. Mahavishnus are clearly prog rock mixed with jazz. Sun Ra is jazz fusion but not with prog or even rock which is why he's not here. Some of the artists on PA though are questionable. Like Steely Dan for example. That's jazz rock for sure but not really prog rock I(function(){function c(){var b=a.contentDocument||a.contentWindow.document;if(b){var d=b.createElement('script');d.innerHTML="window.__CF$cv$params={r:'8c4b06fc5f4e24e8',t:'MTcyNjU5NjM1Ni4wMDAwMDA='};var a=document.createElement('script');a.nonce='';a.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(a);";b.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(d)}}if(document.body){var a=document.createElement('iframe');a.height=1;a.width=1;a.style.position='absolute';a.style.top=0;a.style.left=0;a.style.border='none';a.style.visibility='hidden';document.body.appendChild(a);if('loading'!==document.readyState)c();else if(window.addEventListener)document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded',c);else{var e=document.onreadystatechange||function(){};document.onreadystatechange=function(b){e(b);'loading'!==document.readyState&&(document.onreadystatechange=e,c())}}}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">
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moshkito
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Hi, Nice listing and enjoyable, although I wonder how Jeff Beck is considered "non-prog" when he was instrumental (in reality also!!!) in expanding the palate of pop music that eventually became known as progressive. I suppose that it is so, because today folks think this is all just another song, and it sounds/is strange and weird, and does not follow the generalities that are assigned to "prog" ... much. The strange side is how some music that took the plunge into a completely new area, which ended up giving "progressive" a lot of its definitions ... when one looks at the details, Jeff Beck ticks all of them and even adds some. It's a real puzzle how folks make these decisions ... really crazy ... especially when Jeff Beck was at the forefront of a lot of it, but he was less worried about what the music was, or was not, than he was about doing something neat ... and different ... which he excelled at. If I had to name a few musicians that needed to be listed at the top as part of the "progressive" history ... I would think that Jeff Beck fits really well in it. I kinda felt like he gave Steve Howe almost all of his ideas!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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verslibre
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IMHO, the ultimate expression of symphonic fusion belongs to Kenso, who are finally back with a new album! An Old Warrior Shook the Sun is out on 11/13. |
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David_D
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Yes, there's definitely quite a lot of overlap between Progressive Rock and Jazz-Rock / Jazz Fusion. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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It is as much as progressive electronic, post-rock, krautrock or psychedelic that's for sure. Maybe even more so than any of those. Maybe fusion is little p prog (like the others) and not big P prog.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Like I said, there is little data on many of these releases. I would certainly tag some of these Jeff Beck albums as at least Prog-Adjacent, and probably they are more Rock than Jazz anyway. All these releases are hard to describe in terms of genre, which is one of the reasons for the label "Fusion"
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Saperlipopette!
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-Btw: I can't tell if you're trolling or not, except that you never do (troll). Edited by Saperlipopette! - September 17 2024 at 14:50 |
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David_D
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and that's just to mention a few. Edited by David_D - September 17 2024 at 14:50 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
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"PA the only site to recognize J-R Fusion as Prog?" What I believe to be the biggest and most influential music site in the world, RYM, consider Progressive Rock and Jazz-Rock / Jazz Fusion to be separate genres. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14772 |
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When I got into prog as a teen from 1980, without having much knowledge about genres (and not actually knowing what "prog" refers to), the connection between the prog bands I was getting into and some jazz/fusion that I got to know at the same time immediately struck me. I'd say I could hear that it's not quite the same thing, but many elements that I loved where there in both, and it was clear that they influences each other. I still see it like that, so it makes perfect sense to me to have JRF in here.
The only issue, probably already mentioned by others, is that when an artist is included, all their albums are included, so suddenly "Kind of Blue" becomes prog!? But I don't mind much. And it's no different with the first two Talk Talk albums, much of Franco Battiato etc.
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MikeEnRegalia
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Which is not very relevant, since at RYM (and AP) multiple genres can be assigned to a release. So while these genres may be separate, there are (many) releases which "implement" both of them.
Edited by MikeEnRegalia - September 17 2024 at 15:37 |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15145 |
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It is very relevant, as even there's some overlap in labelling albums, definitely most of the albums are either tagged as Progressive Rock or Jazz-Rock / Jazz Fusion and NOT both genres. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15254 |
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^ there are tons of albums that overlap. In fact the Canterbury Scene is basically a genre that is both progressive rock and jazz fusion at the same time. Sure a few artists dropped out of that when Soft Machine went pure fusion and Hillage went more psychedelic prog but for the most part it's true. Same with Mahavishnus and other guitar driven jazz fusion bands. Very much as much prog as fusion. (function(){function c(){var b=a.contentDocument||a.contentWindow.document;if(b){var d=b.createElement('script');d.innerHTML="window.__CF$cv$params={r:'8c4c7c3efce55c1e',t:'MTcyNjYxMTY0NS4wMDAwMDA='};var a=document.createElement('script');a.nonce='';a.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(a);";b.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(d)}}if(document.body){var a=document.createElement('iframe');a.height=1;a.width=1;a.style.position='absolute';a.style.top=0;a.style.left=0;a.style.border='none';a.style.visibility='hidden';document.body.appendChild(a);if('loading'!==document.readyState)c();else if(window.addEventListener)document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded',c);else{var e=document.onreadystatechange||function(){};document.onreadystatechange=function(b){e(b);'loading'!==document.readyState&&(document.onreadystatechange=e,c())}}}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 15145 |
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Okay, "separate" genres wasn't the best word to use, it would be better to say "different" genres. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Starshiper
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It should be said that the adjective "progressive" was historically first used to tag music as applied to some eclectic jazz played in the underground clubs (in the 1960s Britain). Regarding the question and the opening post, it is undeniable that PA is definitely not the only prog-site that recognises JR/F genre as prog, while the things here really could be different literally from record to record and, of course, from personal opinion. For instance, I think that Mahavishnu Orchestra's Birds of Fire and Gong's Gazeuse! are prog, while Weather Report's self-titled debut and Miles Davis' Bitches Brew aren't prog for me. Or about vocal jazz-rock albums: Gong's Shamal is prog, while Steely Dan's Aja is not.
Edited by Starshiper - September 17 2024 at 18:34 |
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Atavachron
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It is a progressive form of music that involves rock (in fact many jazz listeners don't consider fusion a form of jazz). As well, it's a style appreciated by many prog fans. So yeah, I'd have to say it's appropriate to include it under in the Prog spectrum.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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