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hegelec 
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Joined: July 24 2005
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 Topic: Ummagumma, Pink Floyd's most controversia
Posted: April 29 2006 at 10:05 |
I'd like to admit first of all that I have always had my reservations about the Pink Floyd. A certain group of my friends have tried hard to convince me that albums like Dark Side and Wish You Were Here are, not just the Floyd's best albums, but the best "prog" albums, period. I would always heartily disagree, citing any number of Genesis, Van der Graaf, or Gentle Giant albums I would consider far more interesting musically. The Floyd has just never engaged me on the same level as the bands just mentioned. (Am I alone amongst prog fans?)
However, I have recently come across an old vinyl edition of this classic double, live/studio set. And the live disc blew me out of the water. On it I found four lengthy tunes as carefully constructed and executed as anything on, say, a King Crimson album - which is saying much! Yes, it's "psychedelic"; but I find it to be psych with prog sensibilities way ahead of its time. And music is far more complex than on many later, "officially" progressive offerings. And the studio disc, though certainly very uneven, is not nearly as bad as some say.
For me, Ummagumma is probably the best album by Pink Floyd in my collection. So why is not so heartily embraced by other Floyd fans? Is the album really an "either you like it or you loathe it" affair? Let's hear from some defenders of this work of genius!
Edited by hegelec - April 29 2006 at 19:32
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Cheers!
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man@arms
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Joined: March 31 2006
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Points: 238
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 10:23 |
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I happen to love Ummagumma and believe it to be one of Pink Floyd's finest albums. Yes, the studio side is a bit uneven but that is part of the charm. This is a work of a young, experimental band who doesn't give a damn about the "Top 40". This doesn't sound remotely like the band that 10 years later would give us "the Wall" with all it's radio hits included. Pre-Dark Side era Floyd is my favorite Floyd. A very experimental band with lots of ambition.
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Ricochet
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 10:25 |
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Controversial by what?! by its thick psychedelic movement? absolutely
not...by its context...on the contrary,innovating...Ummagumma is an
important achivement of Pink Floyd,one not to be regarded with shallow
looks...
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DeepPhreeze
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Joined: April 02 2006
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Points: 261
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 10:44 |
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They used some awesome, unheard of devices (both physical and musical) on that album.
It was one of the first times they toyed with the dark, looming sound that would make DSoTM and Animals famous in later years.
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Dirk
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Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Netherlands
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Points: 1043
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 10:44 |
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The live side is great with the brilliant "Careful with that axe Eugene" and "Saucerful of secrets" on it. Studio side is weird and boring though.
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borussia
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 15 2006
Location: Italy
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Points: 36
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 10:45 |
FOR ME UMMAGUMMA IS ONE OF THE BEST PINK FLOYD'S ALBUM:
THE LIVE SET IS WONDERFUL: THE VERSION OF SAUCERFUL OF SECRETS IS BETTER THAN LIVE AT POMPEI, AND THE BEST OF THE OFFICIAL PINK'S RELEASES (THERE ARE SOME 20 MINUTES LONG VERSION IN VARIOUS BOOTLEGS). THIS WAS THE SONG THAT MADE ME LOVE PINK FLOYD
AND ALSO THE STUDIO CD IS VERY INTERESTING (WE MUST CONSIDER THAT IT WAS RECORDED IN 1969!!!!!!), ESPECIALY THE NICK MASON'S TRACKS.
UMMAGUMMA IS AND UNDERRATED ALBUM AS THE PREVIOUS "MORE"
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chamberry
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 11:19 |
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I find it the best album produced by them. The live part is top notch
with all of them being great songs and the studio part one of the most
experimentals/wierd/psychadelic things I've ever heard.
I think is controversial because is a love or hate relation. Most of
the people don't quite get or like the experimentalism that's going on
in the studio part mayorly because it isn't their cup of tea. But for
some who dig this kind of wierdness love Ummagumma (like me or The
Miracle).
"A masterpiece not ment to be heard by everyone" is a title I would put on this album and it shows.
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Ghandi 2
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Joined: February 17 2006
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 11:24 |
Although I do slightly prefer WYWH and Animals over their earlier material, I agree that Ummagumma is treated very unfairly.
I think that the studio CD is not more widely acknowledged because I think a lot of Floyd fans are not all that musically adventerous; most of them dismiss it as too weird or sometimes even just plain dull. I think that if it's listened to carefully, you will find that it's not all that weird; besides, it's nothing compared to some of the crap that other people were doing at that time, like Captain Beefheart.
BTW that's not an insult to Floyd fans; Floyd is my favorite band.
Edited by Ghandi 2 - April 29 2006 at 11:26
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chamberry
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 13:36 |
 Ghandi 2 wrote:
Although I do slightly prefer WYWH and
Animals over their earlier material, I agree that Ummagumma is treated
very unfairly.
I think that the studio CD is not more widely acknowledged
because I think a lot of Floyd fans are not all that
musically adventerous; most of them dismiss it as too weird or sometimes even just plain dull. I think that if it's listened to carefully, you will find that it's not all that weird; besides, it's nothing compared to some of the crap that other people were doing at that time, like Captain Beefheart.
BTW that's not an insult to Floyd fans; Floyd is my favorite band. |
The same goes to Captain Beefheart. I only have Trout mask replica and
its a really good album and a really pain in the a** on the first
listenings.
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eddietrooper
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Joined: February 27 2006
Location: Spain
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 13:58 |
We all agree that the live CD is very good. But IMO the studio CD is really crappy. Yes, it's "experimental", but that is not equal to good. Rick Wright's part is weird for the sake of being wierd, and very boring. Nick Mason's part is even more boring. I'm sure that most people who say they like it would consider it crap if they didn't know that it is music from a Pink Floyd album. Roger Waters' Grandchester Meadows is good, but I've heard live versions of the same song, sung by David Gilmour, and it sounds much better than this version. "Several Species..." is funny, but nothing more. David Gilmour's The Narrow Way is the best of this CD but it pales when compared with other Pink Floyd tracks from other albums.
So I don't see the greatness of the studio album. That's my opinion.
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hegelec
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Joined: July 24 2005
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 14:22 |
So, is the studio disc the only thing bringing down UMMAGUMMA's rating on the archives? I tend to view it kind of like a bonus LP, like the improvisation side of VdGG's Present.
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Cheers!
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The Miracle
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 29 2005
Location: hell
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 14:24 |
I absolutely love it, it's my favorite PF album  Many people do indeed think it's weak (see the PF ratings thread), but that's just because they don't understand it  Avant prog fans usually love it, while most mainstream prog fans think Dark Side(which I think is nothing special) and The Wall(which I hate) are their best albums... oh well. I think that not hing can top the perfection of Saucerful - Meddle period.
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Tomodachi
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Joined: April 10 2006
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 14:32 |
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IMO the live CD is absolutely amazing (5 stars) but the studio one is below Floyd average, only The Narrow Way is great.
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Bj-1
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 18:34 |
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Ummagumma have slowely but surely grown on me over the years. When I bought it about 4 years ago I didn't quite like it, but now I think it very good! It was my 2nd PF purchase, right after Animals.
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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!
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Bern
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Joined: September 22 2005
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 18:51 |
hegelec wrote:
I'd like to admit first of all that I have always had my reservations about the Pink Floyd. A certain group of my friends have tried hard to convince me that albums like Dark Side and Wish You Were Here to be, not just the Floyd's best albums, but the best "prog" albums, period. Being an ardent follower of the classic, symphonic school of prog, I would heartily disagree, citing any number of Genesis, Van der Graaf, or Gentle Giant albums I would consider far more interesting musically. The Floyd has just never engaged me on the same level as the bands just mentioned. (Am I alone amongst prog fans?) |
You are certainly not alone my friend. IMO Pink Floyd post-experimental-phase will always sound pretty boring compared to almost any other prog band that I love. Early Pink Floyd sounds fresh and exciting but from DSTOM and on, they started to be quite boring... at least to me.
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RIP in bossa nova heaven.
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chamberry
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 24 2005
Location: Puerto Rico
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Points: 9008
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 19:08 |
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bhikkhu
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 23:26 |
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Ummagumma was actually one of the first Floyd albums I ever heard. I used to like the studio stuff just because it was wierd. I went many years without hearing it again, and then picked it up again. I have to say that the studio tracks have lost their appeal. There are moments that I enjoy, but not enough to play the whole thing. Some of the pieces drag on, and go nowhere. I appreciate what they were doing, and these experiments would pay off later on. It's just not concieved well enough to hold my attention.
And yes, DSotM, and WYWH are two of the best albums (not just prog) of all time. I am a huge Genesis fan too, and also love Gentle Giant. You just can't compare Floyd to them (or anyone else really), because their style is too unique. Zappa is like that also.
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Meddler
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Posted: April 29 2006 at 23:51 |
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I love this CD so much. The psych-ness is just great. I really love it when its played live on The Man And The Journey (only a few tracks, but many others from the same Floyd era). Anyone who likes Ummagumma should hear this live recording.
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Abstrakt
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Posted: April 30 2006 at 06:15 |
In 1969-1971 the floyd had a psychedelic/experimental period... Just look at the setlists!!! all thease song were not played in the same setlist... the last ones in 1971, the others in 1969-1970
Set the controls... (6-17 mins... Diffrent Structure... A Fast Builup with loud guitars and pounding drums and psychedelic keyboards... then it breaks down and becomes a almost scary, spacey journey through space!)
Astronomy Dominé (around 5-10 mins... 5 minutes extended improvisation with effects)
Fat Old Sun (10-17 mins... 6-11 mins of improvised solos, extra verse and experimentation)
Green is The colour (about 5 mins... none extended... just the regular song)
Careful with That Axe Eugene (10-20 mins... about 5-15 mins extended experiments)
Atom Heart Mother (15-30 mins... sometimes without orchestra, then it's shortened... with orchestra, it comes out like a mystic rock/symfonic suite with loads of effects!)
Cymbaline (5-15 mins... a few minutes of sound fx in the middle, extended solos)
The Embryo (Regular around 10-15 mins... then it has child crying and guitar effects near the end of the song...)
Saucerful of Secrets (Around 15 mins usually... Sometimes 20-30 mins!!! it's extended to max with even more strange voices and fx... also the chord sequence in the end is way extended, roger sings the melody :P)
One Of Thease Days (around 6-10 mins... extended middle section with guitar jams and effects..)
Echoes (20-30 mins... Extended intro, jam and middle section... I RECOMEND YOU TO LISTEN TO IT LIVE!!!)
Thanks if you can be arsed to read it
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Ummagumma, Pink Floyd's most controversia
