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maani View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Back in NYC (Genesis)
    Posted: September 26 2007 at 00:26

I admit that I did not expect this to be a particularly great show, and I pretty much got what I expected.

Not entirely bad, but the band was largely uninspired, sometimes even lackluster.  Phil was obviously having some fun (as was Rutherford), and was his usual genial self, making it seem like the audience was in his living room (a living room built for 23,000).  Unfortunately, the at best taciturn Banks looked like he would rather have been anywhere else.  (I had very high-powered binoculars, which I used liberally, so I know of what I speak.)  Even Steurmer and Thompson seemed somewhat subdued.
 
As noted elsewhere, the set included mostly later Collins-era material (Home By The Sea, No Son of Mine, Invisible Touch, Throwing It All Away, Turn It On Again et al), with some gems thrown in.  The high points were Ripples (worth the price of admission), Mama (the second best I've ever heard it), Domino (also the second best I've ever heard it), and two medleys.  The first medley started with In the Cage, moved into the instrumental mid-section of Cinema Show, then through Duke's Travels, and finally into Afterglow.  Strangely, although there was double drumming in parts, Thompson did not play the second part on Cinema Show, and it was sorely missed.  The other medley started with one of the best double drum solos I have seen these two play (and I have seen them play many): they started by drumming on two soft-seated stools (!) - using both the cushions (which were miked) and the metal parts of the stools - and slowly bringing in their drum sets, building to a truly awe-inspiring crescendo which brought in the instrumental mid-section of Firth of Fith, then Wot Gorilla, and finally the instrumental ending of Los Endos (from Seconds Out).  Along with Ripples, this was worth the price of admission.  (And yet...even much of the usually exciting double drumming seemed somewhat subdued, even (dare I say it?) rote.)
 
They ended with Invisible Touch, for which the finale included flash pots and fireworks (inside MSG!).  I have to admit I was a bit unnerved, since I could not stop thinking about Great White and the tragedy in Rhode Island.  (Call me paranoid, if you must.)
 
They came back for two encores.  The first - "We Can't Dance" - was a throw-away, but was cute nonetheless.  Their final song was Carpet Crawlers.  Oddly, this was unquestionably the most inspired song of the entire night - and people started walking out!  Admittedly it was late, and much of the audience came in from NJ or LI, so they had to catch trains home.  But it was sad to see that the band waited until the very end to come close (very close) to their heyday.  Had they played like that all night (even the newer stuff), it would not simply have been a good show, but a great one.
 
The other odd thing about the show was that, despite having yet another unique and amazing lighting and effects set-up, they rarely used it to its potential.  And they certainly never aspired to create anything that approached the type of arena rock show for which they became so famous, even though they easily could have.
 
Ultimately, I am glad I saw the show, if only for the few numbers that made it worthwhile.  As noted, I didn't really expect them to be the Genesis of Seconds Out (even given Steurmer's replacement of Hackett).  But I can't say I didn't hope for it.
 
Peace.
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Tony R View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2007 at 08:05
Interesting (and excellent) review Maani - did you get the sense that they were "only doing it for the money"?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2007 at 21:09
I'm not sure.  I don't see why, since all of them are pretty well off.  But there was no question that much of it seemed "pro forma," without any real...oomph.  As noted, even much of the doubel drumming - usually a highlight, and usually quite exciting - seemed by-the-numbers.  At very least, they could have LOOKED like they were "into it," or given some reason to care.  But they didn't.  Oh, I'm sure those less familiar with Genesis (and particularly the newest fans) probably thought it was "amazing" (either never having seen them, or only having seen them in very post-Gabriel concerts).   But anyone who knew Genesis - even immediately post-Gabriel Genesis (TOTT, W&W, ATTWT) - would have been able to tell just how (dare I say it?) "bored" they seemed, despite Phil's efforts to inject some levity, etc.
 
Here is the link to the New York Times review, which I agree with 100%.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2007 at 14:16
I was at the Detroit show on Sunday and I think that Maani's review of the New York show might apply here as well.  Granted this was my first time seeing Genesis live so I don't have the reference points to comparisons of prior tours.  Mr. Banks definitely seemed to have a scowl on every time they showed him on the big screens. 
 
I like all eras of Genesis and being a first timer I pretty much enjoyed the entire show.  I didn't particularly like the In the Cage medley too much but that isn't one of my favorites from that era.  Given their dilemma of pleasing the pop fans and the prog fans I think that they did a decent job of covering both arenas.  However, I think that the pop fans might not have been too thrilled with the amount of old material that was played.  The crowd was definitely more into it with the hits; whenever they played an older song the streams of people heading out for beer and restrooms was quite excessive.  I think that they are the type of band that would have to do the two shows per city tour, where they play their prog one night and their pop the next.  Of course, the pop would be played at the arena, and the prog would be played in a smoky barroom.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2007 at 14:28

I think the last time I saw the guys was the Duke tour.  They put in an autographing appearance at Turtles (a local Atlanta record store chain at the time).  I've got an autographed Duke LP.  For some strange reason my brother brought along Brand X Moroccan Roll which Tony signed on auto pilot.  I do remember a couple of the guys looking at the back cover, which shows that band passing around a joint and having a little chuckle.  It's a shame they don't want to try their hands at some more prog.  As this site shows there is a market for it.

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2007 at 14:36

By the way, has anyone here tasted all the strongest meats and layed them down in colored (coloured) sheets any layed them down in colored (coloured) sheets? LOL

Churrascaria anyone? Big%20smile


Edited by Slartibartfast - October 02 2007 at 14:42
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2007 at 18:16
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

I think the last time I saw the guys was the Duke tour.  They put in an autographing appearance at Turtles (a local Atlanta record store chain at the time).  I've got an autographed Duke LP.  For some strange reason my brother brought along Brand X Moroccan Roll which Tony signed on auto pilot.  I do remember a couple of the guys looking at the back cover, which shows that band passing around a joint and having a little chuckle.  It's a shame they don't want to try their hands at some more prog.  As this site shows there is a market for it.


I think they could pull it off. But for them it would be a no-win situation. Their current base of fans tends towards the "pop" side of music. And so, they would probably not be interested in music that was out & out prog. On the other side, let's face it, without Gabriel & Hackett, there is a large contingent that would just be waiting to plunge the Knife in & revel with "I told you so"s.
But you never know. With Radiohead's new album & its' internet distribution, it might be of interest to the group to produce two "albums" worth of music for download & let the fans choose the ones they want.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2007 at 11:53
I think the general, overwhelming consensus in almost all the reviews I've read of this tour (which have all been generally positive, even in the UK) was that the prog material has stood the test of time far better than their pop material.
 
I've discovered that I really am an all-era fan after re-assessing their 80s and 90s albums of late, so I didn't really have a problem with the later stuff being in the set. For example, 'Mama', 'Home By The Sea' and 'Domino' were all definite highlights for me. But the amount of fan accounts I've read from the European tour (the American one seems a little different) that say they, or other people, went for a toilet break during 'Hold On My Heart' (and I don't really mind this song that much, it's harmless enough, IMHO) is quite amusing! In the 'cinema show' I saw, it was the segue from the drum solo into 'Los Endos' that brought down the house, not the pop material. I heard some nods of approval from some student types sat next to me about 'Home By The Sea', as well.
 
Whilst prog is not considered a cool genre by any stretch, I think its critical standing of late due to its slight re-emergence in the mainstream is still far better than that of 80s adult contemporary/AOR. And I've also discovered that a compilation released in Starbucks of Genesis had lots of prog material on it.
 
As for the subject of new material? Phil was very adamant in interviews just before the tour that it wouldn't happen, but on the recently released SACD/DVD-A of 'We Can't Dance' he says 'if we do something again', and Tony Banks said all three were enthusiastic about it after the reception to the tour. I'd love a new album, but I do genuinely think it should be a bit more musically ambitious with less reliance on mid-tempo ballads that both 'We Can't Dance' and the later 'Calling All Stations' with Ray Wilson had.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2007 at 21:25
Thanks for that review.  Like some of you mentionned, the prog.material of Genesis did stand the test of time like The Cage, or Carpet Crawler, while their pop rock materiels reminded us too much the eighties and did not really stand the test of time. 
 
Anyway, this show was worthed to be seen.  
C'est la vie
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2007 at 15:53
I am seeing it next weekend at the second to the last show of the American Tour at the Hollywood Bowl.  Really, I am looking forward to it.  I haven't seen them since 1980 and I have missed them.  It will be like visiting old friends I think. This tour's set list sounds better than the late 80s/early 90s sets.  As for Tony Banks I have seen Genesis 6 times during the 76-80 period and I have never seen the man smile once (I dont' think he can) so I don't think that is an issue. 
 
Speaking of Old Friends I am seeing Jethro Tull the day after tomorrow for the first time since 1978 (and DVD's)  It will be my GF first time ever with both bands so I am anxious to see her reaction to both of these bands and contrast it with my own memories.
   


"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2007 at 16:14
Have good time to these shows Garion 
C'est la vie
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