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DavinS06
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 22 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 10
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Topic: greetings & questions/Steely Dan. etc Posted: March 17 2008 at 22:16 |
Hello,
I'm a newbie here but an old progger thru and thru, having come of age in the early '70's. I look forward to delving into this website in detail and catching up on about 20 years of new music (I know nothing since Holdsworth and the 80's).
So I've been going through the lists and have made some new friends already - Echolyn, IZZ, Radiohead, Porcupine Tree to name a few. The inclusion of Jazz/Fusion here is a big plus. Through most of the '70's I divided my listening time almost equally between fusion and symphonic prog (to use your description). At one time or another, I saw most the big names in concert (I missed the old Genesis, but caught Peter Gabriel in the '90's at a WOMAD festival giving an unscheduled performance early one morning. Front row!).
Anyway, some names come to mind not included in your lists and I was wondering what the consensus was here on a) whether these artists are prog at all (or deserving to be listed) and b) what their popularity level is here.
Steeley Dan - hard to classify. Not what you would think of as prog.
Pat Martino - jazz w/fusion elements
Orchestra Luna - Boston prog band from the '70's.
David Friesen and John Stowell - if Oregon makes the list, they should
David Sancious - Solo albums. Anyone remember them?
Eberhard Weber - some symphonic tendencies in a jazz vein
Mark Isham - not rock but lots of other things
Michael Urbaniak - fusion
I was high school friends with a member of the later Orchestra Luna band. And yet, I've never heard their music, ever. Hard to find now.
Anyway - this is a great site and I am just sticking my toe in the water. More later - cheers,
DavinS06
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TheProgtologist
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: May 23 2005
Location: Baltimore,Md US
Status: Offline
Points: 27802
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Posted: March 18 2008 at 02:58 |
All the section of the Progressive Music Lounge are meant for discussion of artists that are ib the archives here.
If you are suggesting a band/bands for inclusion this belongs in the Suggest New Band/Artist section.
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DavinS06
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 22 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 10
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Posted: March 18 2008 at 10:55 |
I had paged down to see if there was a more appropriate forum, but I didn't page far enough. There are a lot more topics here that I thought.
Will post this in the greetings section and the one that you mentioned.
thanks,
DavinS06
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
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Posted: March 18 2008 at 20:14 |
welcome to the site Davin... one of those on your list.. Steely Dan has been discussed several times. If you do a search you'll find numerous threads regarding them. They are sort of doomed by the 'labels' people toss around. Could go in J-R, Crossover Prog., or Prog-Related. The fans of the group.. and there are a lot of them.. haven't really pushed their addition though. Musically... oh sure... they fit here... but they are doomed by their own fame and success. If it were possible.. to just listen to the music.. and leave stuff like labels and 'name' aside. They'd have been added here long ago. The fans here just chalk it up to... we love the band.. and love it whether it is here or not. The smart people here.... would like them regardless if they are here or not. From everything to musical complexity, lyrical intelligence to the album art itself  they appeal to any open-minded prog fan who doesn't cut prog off at being an European excursion into stretching 5 or 6 song fragments into 18 mintute epics. Prog is SO much more than that. However the cold hard truth is those open-minded enough to see their inclusion also happen to be fans of the group. That speaks volumes as to the quality of the group. Yet ... to push for addition.. you open yourself to charges of simply pushing your favorites. That is how cutthroat and also how personal some people take additions here.. as if the site has become less pure if a band that was COMPLETELY progressive.. .prog.. but not KNOWN as prog whether through geography.. or simple labels was included. sorry for the long answer... but they are a 'big' group.. and we do get people who wonder why they aren't here. Politics... simple politics.. and that is the dirty secret of the site. Some groups are judged upon the music alone.. others judged as to whether they will cause rioting and looting among the more conservative, or close minded, members here hahhahha. Pretty said for a site. and fans that should pride themselves on being the most open-minded OF music fans. As if what other people really think matters who are outside the prog universe goes anyway Damn... so much for a greeting and welcome to the site hahahhah. I do like to made speeches  as far as the rest... we'll check them out..
Edited by micky - March 18 2008 at 20:16
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 18 2008 at 20:26 |
Welcome. Davin. I find myself in a curiousely opposing situation from your own, yet no less excited about my ever-growing knowledge of music discovery; you see, I am a young prog fan who has only recently been introduced to this amazing world, and as such find myself more familiar with the modern prog guys than with the older greats. While I of course find myself enjoying the obvious giants of the past age-- Pink Floyd, Yes, Jethro Tull, etc.-- there are so many equally great artists from the same period that will take a little bit of digging on my part to discover, but I find the challenge very encouraging!
I would like to comment on some of the bands you have discovered thus far:
Echolyn is absolutely amazing, and as far as I am concerned produced one of the greatest albums of the past twenty years (As The World)
Porcupine Tree is my second favorite modern prog band at this point. You have chosen an amzing band to discover modern prog with. I would like to suggest the album "In Absentia" to get a good idea of what they are all about; it seems to contain the best mixture of all their elements, from the Space-Rock influence, to the Hard Rock vibe and even the more crossover elements. Read my review of the album if you want, but I'm not sure how familair with PT you already are, so I'll leave that decision up to you.
Anyway, welcome to the archives! If you want to expand your knowledge of this beautiful genre, you couldn't have chosen a better place!
Edited by p0mt3 - March 18 2008 at 20:27
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DavinS06
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 22 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 10
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Posted: March 18 2008 at 22:32 |
Thanks for the welcome, Micky and p0mt3 - you've made me feel at home already.
The only thing I enjoy more than talking and thinking about prog music is listening to it. Here I get to do both, and by your replies you've both shown me to be similarly minded. Thats exciting!
I'll get back in a bit. I might change my user name eventually, though - to something that honors "Tarkus", the ELP album that started it all for me. I damn near flunked some courses in college thanks to Keith Emerson!
You know, I came into this with the attitude that there wasn't likely to be much modern prog out there for me. Boy, was I wrong! It didn't take long to find it. And if there had been a website like this when I was in college, I WOULD have flunked out!!
regards,
DavinS06
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
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Posted: March 18 2008 at 23:22 |
hahhahha.. awesome... we could always use more ELP fans around here..... Welcome again and look forward to seeing you around the forum.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: March 19 2008 at 01:02 |
Davin: you are welcome, and I hope that you stick around, as you will find so many great ways of keeping yourself occupied here.  (Although I wouldn't suggest taking the same road as I; I tend to get into rows on the forum more often than most, lol)
I can totally see why this website's existance could lead to several broken hearts on the behalf of collage kids' parents, and I must admit that I myself find it very difficult sometimes to stay off of the archives, despite my GED studies looming over my head, 
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The Rock
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 746
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Posted: March 21 2008 at 19:05 |
micky wrote:
welcome to the site Davin... one of those on your list.. Steely Dan has been discussed several times. If you do a search you'll find numerous threads regarding them. They are sort of doomed by the 'labels' people toss around. Could go in J-R, Crossover Prog., or Prog-Related. The fans of the group.. and there are a lot of them.. haven't really pushed their addition though. Musically... oh sure... they fit here... but they are doomed by their own fame and success. If it were possible.. to just listen to the music.. and leave stuff like labels and 'name' aside. They'd have been added here long ago. The fans here just chalk it up to... we love the band.. and love it whether it is here or not. The smart people here.... would like them regardless if they are here or not. From everything to musical complexity, lyrical intelligence to the album art itself they appeal to any open-minded prog fan who doesn't cut prog off at being an European excursion into stretching 5 or 6 song fragments into 18 mintute epics. Prog is SO much more than that. However the cold hard truth is those open-minded enough to see their inclusion also happen to be fans of the group. That speaks volumes as to the quality of the group. Yet ... to push for addition.. you open yourself to charges of simply pushing your favorites. That is how cutthroat and also how personal some people take additions here.. as if the site has become less pure if a band that was COMPLETELY progressive.. .prog.. but not KNOWN as prog whether through geography.. or simple labels was included.
sorry for the long answer... but they are a 'big' group.. and we do get people who wonder why they aren't here. Politics... simple politics.. and that is the dirty secret of the site. Some groups are judged upon the music alone.. others judged as to whether they will cause rioting and looting among the more conservative, or close minded, members here hahhahha. Pretty said for a site. and fans that should pride themselves on being the most open-minded OF music fans. As if what other people really think matters who are outside the prog universe goes anyway
Damn... so much for a greeting and welcome to the site hahahhah. I do like to made speeches 
as far as the rest... we'll check them out.. 
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Hey there micky,
Your posts sums up all of what ai think about this site and some of their collaborators.Sad but true,some here are so controlling,it'a almost a dictatorship and they take it upon themselves to decide whter a band is prog enough for ''their'' section of this board.
Case in hand,I suggested 4 bands a month ago;Demon Fuzz,Dillinger,Elder Kindered and The New Age(Jordan Oliver).Out of the four,I thought that New Age were the most obvious for inclusion.Boy was I ever wrong.They got squashed and ripped to shred by some of the dictators here on PA.It was the first time ever that I saw someone qualify them as light jazz,new agey,latin,ect...This act(The New Age) are commonly referred to as true bonafide Ameriprog,onr of the best from the early 80,s.All of my friends acknowledge that fact and none have ever qualified them as light jazz.
So far none of the bands I've submitted have been included and I fear none will ever be.Due to the long and slooooooowwwww process it takes to have them evaluate,I guess.
As for Steely Dan I,m all for it.Let the f****ing politics out of it and have them on PA!
Btw I have a list of bands up for inclusion that I'm holding back for obvious reasons.
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What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: March 22 2008 at 13:40 |
The Rock wrote:
Hey there micky,
Your posts sums up all of what ai think about this site and some of their collaborators.Sad but true,some here are so controlling,it'a almost a dictatorship and they take it upon themselves to decide whter a band is prog enough for ''their'' section of this board.
I’m getting toired of your accusations The Rock, nobody acts as a dictator here, the teams are formed by 3 or 5 persons each, they process each and every band, some are accepted and some are not.
But all teams need agreement of the majority of their members to accept a band, the only one trying to teach us what is Prog and what is not are you.
Case in hand,I suggested 4 bands a month ago;Demon Fuzz,Dillinger,Elder Kindered and The New Age(Jordan Oliver).Out of the four,I thought that New Age were the most obvious for inclusion.Boy was I ever wrong.They got squashed and ripped to shred by some of the dictators here on PA.It was the first time ever that I saw someone qualify them as light jazz,new agey,latin,ect...This act(The New Age) are commonly referred to as true bonafide Ameriprog,onr of the best from the early 80,s.All of my friends acknowledge that fact and none have ever qualified them as light jazz.
Don’t you find that if all your bands have been rejected is for some reason?
While you presented your bands the Symphonic and Neo Team have accepted at least 30 bands, but no team has added your bands…..Don’t you think that maybe your conception of Prog is wrong and not the rest of the world’s??????
So far none of the bands I've submitted have been included and I fear none will ever be.Due to the long and slooooooowwwww process it takes to have them evaluate,I guess.
You are lie again, Jordan Oliver was checked in less than 3 days and rejected in less than a day more, it passed to Eclectic and Eclectic rejected them in a short time also.
Maybe if instead of complaining so much you spent 5 or 6 hours a day here working on additions for nothing except the love for Prog, you would think twice before accusing.
We are three guys for two teams, we have 169 Neo Prog bios to re-write, we have our Symphonic Schools to work that are waiting for more than a year, we have the Neo Prog and Symphonic additions to work on…..But we have to work and spent some time with our families, because nobody pays us to be here, we are here because we want
We did all this in a few months, while you took almost 3 years to make a few posts and nothing mope for the site.
I’m sure you don’t have the slightest idea how much work this requires, because you do nothing except complain because the rest of the world doesn’t agree with you.
As for Steely Dan I,m all for it.Let the f****ing politics out of it and have them on PA!
This I don’t say a word, that’s not our call, but it has nothing to do with politics, Steely Dan has been debated already and more than once, but rejected all the time, in my Team HT is a fan of Steely Dan, but he believes Steely Dan is not Prog, so it’s not lack of interest, by the contrary, it’s interest.
It’s much easier to be the popular guy and say yes to everything, but we take what we do seriously, we won’t add a band to make you happy if we think it’s not Prog.
Btw I have a list of bands up for inclusion that I'm holding back for obvious reasons.
If they are as Prog as Jordan Oliver I can guess why.
Iván
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The Rock
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 746
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Posted: March 22 2008 at 14:02 |
Last time I,ve checked,the bans I added haven't been rejected.At least not officially.As a matter of fact,they did received brief but positive feedback,especially Demon Fuzz and Dillinger.
You are the one beign obsessed with what is or isn't prog.As for my attitude,I did contribute more than a few complaints,as a matter of fact I'm in constant communications with a few members here as well as a collaborator, exchanging ideas and the such.Said collaborator showed lots of enthusiasthm towards my suggestions and urge me to suggest some more.So I suppose my perception progressive rock isn't that different from most as you might think it is.
The prog world dosen't start and ends with what you and your team considers prog.Like I said in another thread there are many bands out there,for some reasons,most of the times extreme obscurity,that aren't include on any prog sites,yet are no less proggier than many bands who are.
A few more examples;Will-O the Wisp,Hunger,Nyl,Cheval Fou,Inistekar,Starglow Energy,Michel Séguin,ect...
Have a nice day
Alain
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What's gonna come out of my mouth is gonna come out of my soul."Skip Prokop"
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46843
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Posted: March 22 2008 at 14:10 |
hey guys... isn't polite to hijack another man's thread... I sure wouldn't appreciate it.. take it somewhere else you two
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: March 22 2008 at 14:14 |
Enough.
Our genre teams work with sincerity and diligence. People will always disagree with some decisions that are taken, this is not an exact science. Such disagreement must always take the form of constructive debate though, not accusations of "dictarorships", "personal interests taking precedence etc."
In order to take the heat out of this thread, I'll close it meanwhile. It may or may not reopen.
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