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Flower Kings Appreciation Thread

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M27Barney View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 06:29
Mind u this doesn't sound to promising....
 
I have always been a great admirer and fan of my guitar playing compatriot Steve Hackett. I have supported his faux pas on "Highly Strung" and "Till We have Faces". Everything about this new album sounded very promising, until the cd entered my player. The booklet promised a splendid symphonic album, but I was bored to death instead. The playing on "Beyond The Shrouded Horizon" sounds dull and uninspired. The presence of great drummer names, like Simon Phillips and a bass player like Chris Squire can't prevent the music from sounding static. A drum machine sounds more alive. There are absolutely no beautiful or catchy themes to discover on this album. Being a true fan, I naturally bought the double disc version, but that turned out to be an even bigger mistake. The boredom continued on the second disc. Where have remained the sparkling and brilliant themes that keep you on the tip of your chair. On albums like "Voyage Of The Acolyte" and "Spectral Mornings" Hackett is literally reaching for the stars, but apparently everything is shrouded now. Probably "true" Hackett-fans will think my words blasphemy, but you will have to be blind (or deaf) not to notice the lack of inspiration on this album. I have so much enjoyed "Live Rails" and I was so full of expectation about this new album, but it turned out to be a cold shower. I consider this album for die-hard fans only and therefore I will grant it the obliged two stars. Whistler.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 07:37
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Mind u this doesn't sound to promising....
 
I have always been a great admirer and fan of my guitar playing compatriot Steve Hackett. I have supported his faux pas on "Highly Strung" and "Till We have Faces". Everything about this new album sounded very promising, until the cd entered my player. The booklet promised a splendid symphonic album, but I was bored to death instead. The playing on "Beyond The Shrouded Horizon" sounds dull and uninspired. The presence of great drummer names, like Simon Phillips and a bass player like Chris Squire can't prevent the music from sounding static. A drum machine sounds more alive. There are absolutely no beautiful or catchy themes to discover on this album. Being a true fan, I naturally bought the double disc version, but that turned out to be an even bigger mistake. The boredom continued on the second disc. Where have remained the sparkling and brilliant themes that keep you on the tip of your chair. On albums like "Voyage Of The Acolyte" and "Spectral Mornings" Hackett is literally reaching for the stars, but apparently everything is shrouded now. Probably "true" Hackett-fans will think my words blasphemy, but you will have to be blind (or deaf) not to notice the lack of inspiration on this album. I have so much enjoyed "Live Rails" and I was so full of expectation about this new album, but it turned out to be a cold shower. I consider this album for die-hard fans only and therefore I will grant it the obliged two stars. Whistler.
 
I take it you don't recommend it then? Wink.  Not one to sit on the fence our Barney.
 
On a change of subject my £5 each way on Italy for the euros turned out to be an inspired choice.  I won't mention the £5 win on Holland Embarrassed LOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 07:45
Yes, my icon is in fact 'The Catfish Man'.  

When I first come on here, I forgot what I used, something generic for a few months.  I wanted something unique.  In the summer of 2008 I was at the 3RP, a local Pittsburgh prog festival that lasted only two glorious years.  Nonetheless, the 2008 show had a great lie up, The Flower Kings, Neal Morse and Spock's Beard.  I actually got to see Neal sing 'The Light' with the Beard and it was amazing.

After that show, I decided that I wanted my icon to be 'The Catfish Man' so I gave a friend of mine a task 'draw what I'd look like if I was a catfish' hence the glasses, turtleneck and jacket.  Even though I'm not quite as hot and heavy on The Beard as I once was, I still love the artwork.

I will change the background at some point, it's a matter of making the time to do it and as you can see, I haven't gotten around to it as of yet.

(PS, still waiting for the Bans of Eden to arrive, I may just break down and buy the MP3's from Amazon if for no other reason than the fact that it will guarantee that the CD will arrive the same day)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infandous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 08:32
Originally posted by Roj M30 Roj M30 wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Mind u this doesn't sound to promising....
 
I have always been a great admirer and fan of my guitar playing compatriot Steve Hackett. I have supported his faux pas on "Highly Strung" and "Till We have Faces". Everything about this new album sounded very promising, until the cd entered my player. The booklet promised a splendid symphonic album, but I was bored to death instead. The playing on "Beyond The Shrouded Horizon" sounds dull and uninspired. The presence of great drummer names, like Simon Phillips and a bass player like Chris Squire can't prevent the music from sounding static. A drum machine sounds more alive. There are absolutely no beautiful or catchy themes to discover on this album. Being a true fan, I naturally bought the double disc version, but that turned out to be an even bigger mistake. The boredom continued on the second disc. Where have remained the sparkling and brilliant themes that keep you on the tip of your chair. On albums like "Voyage Of The Acolyte" and "Spectral Mornings" Hackett is literally reaching for the stars, but apparently everything is shrouded now. Probably "true" Hackett-fans will think my words blasphemy, but you will have to be blind (or deaf) not to notice the lack of inspiration on this album. I have so much enjoyed "Live Rails" and I was so full of expectation about this new album, but it turned out to be a cold shower. I consider this album for die-hard fans only and therefore I will grant it the obliged two stars. Whistler.
 
I take it you don't recommend it then? Wink.  Not one to sit on the fence our Barney.
 
On a change of subject my £5 each way on Italy for the euros turned out to be an inspired choice.  I won't mention the £5 win on Holland Embarrassed LOL.



That's not his review, but one on the album page here at the archives.  Personally, I think it's a good album, possibly his best since the early ones.  I don't think he'll ever top Spectral Mornings and the first solo album, but this one is very good.  "Boring"?  I guess that depends on what you find boring.  I find the album quite beautiful and filled with incredible guitar parts.  The bonus CD is less interesting, but still pretty good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infandous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 08:38
I've listened to the new album a couple times now, and gave it a serious listen last night.  I think it's great so far.  Probably the best since Unfold.  I still need to spend time digesting it but the music is just pure Flower Kings in all their glory.  Roine's lyrics surprise me a little, in that they are so dark and negative, every single song.  Wonder what's going on with him that produced that?  There have been lyrics like that before, but usually only a song or two on each album, rather than every one.  Jonas' lyrics, on the other hand, are quite positive and uplifting.

The bonus tracks don't do much for me, though I like the Illuminati instrumental and think it would make a good coda to the album.  I like how the main album decreases in intensity gradually, finishing with the mellowest song (relatively speaking).  Roine plays some excellent guitar solos, some of his best.

I think the thing for me is that I wasn't really expecting much from this album, believe it or not.  Based on the last few Flower Kings albums, and the side project stuff, I really didn't have high expectations at all, not that any of that stuff is bad, far from it, only that I've missed a certain something in Flower Kings music since before Unfold.  I can't say for sure that magic is back, but so far it seems to be as close as they've come for me.  No rating just yet, as I said I need more time with it, but so far I'm loving it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 14:03
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:


I know you can stream The Light on Spock's PA page. As someone who has X, and 4 Neal-era albums, I think X is the weakest, but still good. 3 stars on that one. But I think all the Neal-era albums are at least 4 stars. V is the best one, not my favorite, but it is the best.
It's funny. i bought  transatlantic  SMTPe because i really liked Spock's Beard (especially) V.
then tried The flower Kings on the back of Transatlantic.
Now its safe to say I prefer TFK over SB and Transatlantic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 14:44
So, some controversy has arisen over at other forums over the ratings of TFK albums on the database. Particularly, mentions of Sean Trane's reviews. I have to agree to some extent, as his reviews for TFK albums do nothing but hate on the band. And his reviews are from when the site was young, so for many TFK albums, his review is the first one seen, and he gives terrible reviews/ratings.

The members of the other forums preferred to remain anonymous:

Originally posted by Forum User A Forum User A wrote:


It's been getting some pretty favorable reviews online, even at ProgArchives who are usually pretty critical when it comes to a new TFK album. Even people who don't listen to TFK have been checking out BoE.


Originally posted by Forum User B Forum User B wrote:


To touch on this, check out these reviews by Sean Trane at Prog Archives:

Of Flower Power:

Quote
As they keep putting out important (the understatement of the century , let alone the millenium) quantities of music (the previous and following will be double CD also) , one wonders what the point is to putting one hour numbers going in all direction (especially when this goes nowhere),mindless soloing and doubtful concept .
I rented out this album , and to my great distress was simply unable to go through the entirity of it as almost every single note appears to be either redundant or lifted from a classic album.

As with most of TFK albums, this is for people who have yet to built discernement . Youger progheards will likely not agree with me, but once you have heard thousands of prog albums and put them in the historical perspective, you should see this relatively easily.

Of Stardust We Are:
Quote
Some of my friends rated this along with the Lamb on Broadway when it came out and I told to listen better and most of them never play this anymore , of course this only applies to the crusty old timers that we are , as most other young people did make this their Holy Grail. I sometimes wonder if the FK was not setting the goal at making the lengthiest tracks possible . In the following years they will put out many other fully filled double Cds full of fillers , lenghty directionless "jams "( lack of more precise word as this were not jams per se) , making for an incredible output in quantity but not quality. This is only an opinion and is not aimed at hurting anybody, artist or fans.

Of Space Revolver:
Quote
Read my other F K critics as I don't like to repeat myself. But I will have to find something to write if my opinion (which nobody cares for anyway ;-) is to be seen - are we at fifty words yet?
Again , with this album TFK repeats their musical props without changing much of their previous formula. There is of course a solid dose of hard work that going into such an album , (which are finely crafted too and have many positive qualities to their works) >> but I am afraid it is all lost on me. Every single note appears to have been heard in different albums scattered through the prog giants of the 70's.

All kidding aside and not wanting to hurt anybody's feelings but my opinion is: spend your hard earned cash on other Swedish groups that are more worthy of your support.

Shall I go on? :lol

And that guy is a COLLABORATOR on that site, meaning his reviews carry the most weight (twice as much as the average reviewers) when it comes to ratings and such.  What a joke that is. The guy doesn't even review the albums; he takes a new TFK album as an excuse to rip the band and give them 1 star.  I'll bet he doesn't even really listen to them.  And they let that guy be a collaborator!


Originally posted by Forum User C Forum User C wrote:


Of all the things he's said that is actually something I don't take as much issue with. When you've experienced more it can give you a better perspective. Having heard 5 albums and calling 1 of them the greatest album ever doesn't mean jack sh*t to me, as the sampling size is too small.

That said I don't agree with how he has chosen to wield the weapon of experience in this instance, and simply having experience certainly does not make you automatically correct, as this case demonstrates.



How does everyone feel about this? I personally think we should, politely, petition that Sean Trane edit (or delete) his reviews for The Flower Kings albums he's reviewed. Going by the rules on PA, if those reviews came out now, they'd be reported and deleted. I like Sean Trane, and his reviews are usually good, but a lot of good points were made at the other forums.


Edited by darkshade - June 29 2012 at 14:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 15:06
Darkshade . . . before you go any further, go here:


It got ugly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 15:10
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

So, some controversy has arisen over at other forums over the ratings of TFK albums on the database. Particularly, mentions of Sean Trane's reviews. I have to agree to some extent, as his reviews for TFK albums do nothing but hate on the band. And his reviews are from when the site was young, so for many TFK albums, his review is the first one seen, and he gives terrible reviews/ratings.

The members of the other forums preferred to remain anonymous:

Originally posted by Forum User A Forum User A wrote:


It's been getting some pretty favorable reviews online, even at ProgArchives who are usually pretty critical when it comes to a new TFK album. Even people who don't listen to TFK have been checking out BoE.


Originally posted by Forum User B Forum User B wrote:


To touch on this, check out these reviews by Sean Trane at Prog Archives:

Of Flower Power:

Quote
As they keep putting out important (the understatement of the century , let alone the millenium) quantities of music (the previous and following will be double CD also) , one wonders what the point is to putting one hour numbers going in all direction (especially when this goes nowhere),mindless soloing and doubtful concept .
I rented out this album , and to my great distress was simply unable to go through the entirity of it as almost every single note appears to be either redundant or lifted from a classic album.

As with most of TFK albums, this is for people who have yet to built discernement . Youger progheards will likely not agree with me, but once you have heard thousands of prog albums and put them in the historical perspective, you should see this relatively easily.

Of Stardust We Are:
Quote
Some of my friends rated this along with the Lamb on Broadway when it came out and I told to listen better and most of them never play this anymore , of course this only applies to the crusty old timers that we are , as most other young people did make this their Holy Grail. I sometimes wonder if the FK was not setting the goal at making the lengthiest tracks possible . In the following years they will put out many other fully filled double Cds full of fillers , lenghty directionless "jams "( lack of more precise word as this were not jams per se) , making for an incredible output in quantity but not quality. This is only an opinion and is not aimed at hurting anybody, artist or fans.

Of Space Revolver:
Quote
Read my other F K critics as I don't like to repeat myself. But I will have to find something to write if my opinion (which nobody cares for anyway ;-) is to be seen - are we at fifty words yet?
Again , with this album TFK repeats their musical props without changing much of their previous formula. There is of course a solid dose of hard work that going into such an album , (which are finely crafted too and have many positive qualities to their works) >> but I am afraid it is all lost on me. Every single note appears to have been heard in different albums scattered through the prog giants of the 70's.

All kidding aside and not wanting to hurt anybody's feelings but my opinion is: spend your hard earned cash on other Swedish groups that are more worthy of your support.

Shall I go on? :lol

And that guy is a COLLABORATOR on that site, meaning his reviews carry the most weight (twice as much as the average reviewers) when it comes to ratings and such.  What a joke that is. The guy doesn't even review the albums; he takes a new TFK album as an excuse to rip the band and give them 1 star.  I'll bet he doesn't even really listen to them.  And they let that guy be a collaborator!


Originally posted by Forum User C Forum User C wrote:


Of all the things he's said that is actually something I don't take as much issue with. When you've experienced more it can give you a better perspective. Having heard 5 albums and calling 1 of them the greatest album ever doesn't mean jack sh*t to me, as the sampling size is too small.

That said I don't agree with how he has chosen to wield the weapon of experience in this instance, and simply having experience certainly does not make you automatically correct, as this case demonstrates.



How does everyone feel about this? I personally think we should, politely, petition that Sean Trane edit (or delete) his reviews for The Flower Kings albums he's reviewed. Going by the rules on PA, if those reviews came out now, they'd be reported and deleted. I like Sean Trane, and his reviews are usually good, but a lot of good points were made at the other forums.
Aye I'd second that - And why should a collaborators rating be worth more than anybody else's???? I bloody hate cliques...PSA shouldn't have one!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 15:11
it's just an opinion . There are plenty of positive reviews  to balance out the negativity. 

that said... I have one of my own Smile

The problem with harking back to the giants of the 70s is that it doesn't matter. It's like saying so-and-so ripped of Edgar Rice Burroughs or Michael Moorcock. So what - if they tread the same themes or retell the same basic 'musical'  stories. It's the 'telling' that matters.
Is the Magnificent Seven a sh*t film because it mirrors "seven samurai"? Is the throne of blood a sh*t film because it rips off macbeth? (answer No btw)

The Flower Kings albums all sound like flower Kings albums. sure there are moment s that remind me of Yes but they are touchpoints, reminiscences and motifs, not rip-offs.
Anyone who thinks that the recycling and reinterpretation of sounds and themes is peculiar to this generation of prog artists clearly knows feck all about art.

(Sorry - feeling a bit ranty - its been a hard week)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 15:14
I think I read that once when I used to lurk this thread.

Originally posted by progrules progrules wrote:

I hesitated for a long time to post this but I feel he had this coming: what do you guys think of Mr.Trane  and his reviews of our great fav band ? I think they are a disgrace for our site and can't believe they haven't been erased yet.
I mean I can accept if someone has a different taste and doesn't like them but at least write a respectable review about the albums and REALLY explain why you have such a problem with them.
Another possibility could be for him: write one or two reviews of a band you hate and leave them alone for the rest. But this guy really felt the urge to bash (almost) all TFK albums and thus is partly responsable big time for their relatively low averages.


He's got a good point on the bolded part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 15:16
Originally posted by Roj M30 Roj M30 wrote:



I've felt that from day one.  It REALLY hacks me off.  One star, one star, one star.  So given his weighting it takes a hell of a lot of good reviews to get TFK's back where they should be.

Now I'm not keen on Jethro Tull.  Do I review all their albums? sl*g them all off, give them all one star? No, if I can be bothered to review Tull I'll review one, slate it, and then leave 'em alone.

Really, what was the point of all that?  It's not exactly the nicest thing to see right at the top of the TFK page. 


All of this too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roland113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 15:32
Just as a side note, I went back and reviewed the initial argument, as I said, it did get ugly, make sure that you read all the way up to page 38, it really did turn into an argument with an eventual request for peace.  When you think it dies down on about page 30, you're missing a lot of the drama.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 15:46
Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

,,, Zoltan of course...

His playing on Unfold the Future and Who's The Boss in the Factory is outstanding, love his jazz sensibilites.
Well, I learned something new today.
hadn't clocked that Zoltan was the drummer of WTBitF.
Fantastic album and great drumming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 15:48
Originally posted by wjohnd wjohnd wrote:

Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

,,, Zoltan of course...

His playing on Unfold the Future and Who's The Boss in the Factory is outstanding, love his jazz sensibilites.
Well, I learned something new today.
hadn't clocked that Zoltan was the drummer of WTBitF.
Fantastic album and great drumming.


Zoltan is the drummer for the first 3 Karmakanic albums, the first 2 Tangent albums, the first Agents of Mercy album, 3rd World Electric (along with Dave Weckl on a few tracks), Tomas Bodin's 2nd and 3rd album, and of course for The Flower Kings - UtF, A&E, MTFK, and TSONE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 16:01
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Originally posted by wjohnd wjohnd wrote:

Originally posted by The Quiet One The Quiet One wrote:

,,, Zoltan of course...

His playing on Unfold the Future and Who's The Boss in the Factory is outstanding, love his jazz sensibilites.
Well, I learned something new today.
hadn't clocked that Zoltan was the drummer of WTBitF.
Fantastic album and great drumming.


Zoltan is the drummer for the first 3 Karmakanic albums, the first 2 Tangent albums, the first Agents of Mercy album, 3rd World Electric (along with Dave Weckl on a few tracks), Tomas Bodin's 2nd and 3rd album, and of course for The Flower Kings - UtF, A&E, MTFK, and TSONE
thanks.
Love Karmakanic- especially who's the Boos (the latest one is ok - but i suspect i just haven't played it often enough yet) .
However, despite a few goes I really haven't managed to find the lovefor The Tangent or AoM. I've bought a few tracks and listened on spotify so can say hand on heart that while they're not bad - they just haven't grabbed me enough to make me want to invest any more time/money on them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 16:03
I listened to Dramarama by Agents of Mercy on Spotify, and found it to be more enjoyable than The Black Forest *shrug*. AoM is still my least favorite TFK-family project as of right now.

But wait! We need to rally against Sean trane's terrible TFK reviews!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 16:07
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:



But wait! We need to rally against Sean trane's terrible TFK reviews!!!!!!!!!!!
Why bother..we know the truth and it  will set us free :-)


btw Is it wrong to be posting on PA (and indeed on the Flower Kings appreciation thread) while quietly head-banging to the new Slash album ?
Embarrassed

which has slipped into the Alter Bridge ABIII without me noticing too much.  Damn Miles Kennedy has a good voice though.


Edited by wjohnd - June 29 2012 at 16:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkshade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 16:09
Originally posted by wjohnd wjohnd wrote:

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:



But wait! We need to rally against Sean trane's terrible TFK reviews!!!!!!!!!!!
Why bother..we know the truth and it  will set us free :-)


btw Is it wrong to be posting on PA (and indeed on the Flower Kings appreciation thread) while quietly head-banging to the new Slash album ?
Embarrassed


I don't see a problem. I listen to lots of non-prog music while posting on PA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2012 at 16:32
Yeah I can go from listening to The Flower Kings to listening to Napalm Death in a split second. No problemTongue
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