Joined: November 22 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 1955
Posted: June 18 2009 at 17:27
AlexUC wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
Jake Kobrin wrote:
angelmk wrote:
Turbo wrote:
Jake Kobrin wrote:
KingCrimson250 wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
el dingo wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
el dingo wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
AlexUC wrote:
AlexUC wrote:
~Rael~ wrote:
The T wrote:
crimson87 wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
HolyMoly wrote:
The T wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
~Rael~ wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
his/her
their
Actually Walter is right (something I thought I'd never say). He used artist as a singular so the pronoun should be singular as well.
'His/her' or 'his or her' are very clumsy ways of circumventing problems with gender in pronouns though. Enter the plural form, convenient and accepted as an alternative, despite its conflict with the singular form of 'artist'. And it's logical, too. Walter really means the totality of pre-'89 artists here, not just a single one.
Actually, it is not acceptable to match a singular pronoun with a plural counterpart, or vice versa. The best alternative would have been to write "you're neglecting a pre-1989 artist and that artist's masterpieces." Less clunky than "his or her" or "his/her." And I do not think Walter meant the totality of pre-'89 artists, because all of Walter's grammar seems competent, so his use of "his/her" was obviously intentional. Plus, "his/her" or "his or her" is perfectly accpetable. And grammatical correctness always supersedes style.
Using "they" after a singular pronoun is starting to become okay in writing, but it still has a couple decades to integrate itself fully into the English language and become truly acceptable. And even then, it won't be correct to everyone.
And the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary agrees with me too - though it does admit that the use of 'they/their/etc." after a singular noun or pronoun is considered erroneous by some.
Isn't language fun?
It is fun, that's why I'm such a grammar nazi. But a plural pronoun taking the place of a singular noun is just plain wrong no matter how many people mess it up.
I think we all agree that one word can have many meanings. Personally I see 'their' as used in my suggestion as a singular pronoun with the same form as a plural one. Is it a perfect use? No, but his/her looks like crap in mine, and at least some authorities' opinion, and so 'their' is preferable. And until a better alternative shows up (unlikely), it stands.
Well actually like I mentioned earlier, the idea of gender neutral pronouns is starting to form but probably won't be in mainstream usage for some time. For example, the word that could be used in this scenario would be "hir." But for now, we just have his/her or one's or there is the alternative of just using the noun itself instead of a pronoun.
Copperud considered this usage established (though still somewhat controversial) as far back as the early '80s. Ditto Quirk, Greenbaum et al. , and they say it was American English that was the fastest in adopting it I can see there is some resistance to it, but unless it was first gaining ground since the early '80s, only to be almost unanimously rejected somewhere in the mid-to-late '90s probably and is being slowly brought back now.... what you and Rael say is somewhat at odds with the sources I provide.
'Hir' sounds and looks dreadful, BTW. I can see it being rejected only because it looks so artificial.
At my school we learned gender neutral pronouns during orientation so we could use them in regards to a person who did not want to be associated with either end of the gender binary. Yes, I do go to a liberal arts school.
Interesting.
Umm, they did not teach you to use 'hir', did they...?
The pyramid game!
As opposed to Ivan's colour game
I just want to see how big a pyramid we can create...
It's like Ummagumma!
I think the discussion was over when someone said Walter has no style. Never use his/her, use ones.
Pyramid
A pyramid is a building where the outer surfaces are triangular and converge at a point. The base of a pyramid is usually trilateral or quadrilateral (but may be of any polygon shape), meaning that a pyramid usually has four or five faces. A pyramid's design, with the majority of the weight closer to the ground,[1]means that less material higher up on the pyramid will be pushing down from above: this allowed early civilizations to create stable monumental structures.
and ours pyramid i would call WalterDigsTunesandpyramids
This pyramid is still being excavated...
Teodigspyramidstoo
C'mon are the decemberists that uninteresting that you have to make giant pyramids in order to keep the thread going??
You are either with us or against us!!
Don't forget the apostrophe in "one's" to signal the possessive, lol.
And, Visitor13, are you a professor, English major, etc? It just seems like you would have to be. Also, do you live in the US?
Right now I am studying for a secondary education English degree, and right now plan on teaching the plural/singular agreement the traditional way, because it will be safer for my students when the enter college.
And, I know you mean well, but the professors I have had are very smart, I do not question their knowledge of the English language, and with all due respect, will take their advice on the issue. I actually think "their" is perfectly acceptable after a singular pronoun, but where I live (Midwest USA, near St. Louis) it is not yet widely accepted, if at all.
I don't know what's going on here, but please take my two cents for this wonderful pyramid. Hope this will inspire more and more people to take care of our planet
Oh, and we're helping M@X with some load testing here too. I just want to see how many levels do we need here before seeing some strange server error
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck would?
If we're going for the biggest pyramid in the history of PA, I am going to dedicate it to Rameses II
You should dedicate it to Ramases, which is almost the same thing except tastefully proggy.
After a quick listen that's by me - as if anyone needs my permission
Visitor13 wrote:
The previous page is totally ruined now, completely unreadable.
who cares, only things matter is keep the spirit of The Decemberists ..build this lovely pyramid .. grammar lessons .. as long as servers work
The objective here is to find out if the pyramids were built by egyptians alone, by egyptians with help of extraterrestrial beings, or by People Fooled by the December People
People who love December people , hardworking ones .. built and are still building this monster of pyramid
The OP has to be proud... his observance of Foolproof methods have given birth to one of the most trascendental moments in PA's history: the time when we stop being a forum and turn intoa civilization.
we are building a history ..
...AND a building...
Now that we've evolved into a civilization, we ought to divide into factions and have a power struggle
My first exposure to them was watching the ATT webcast from Bonnarooo last weekend.
Halfway through the first song I thought "this is interesting". By the end of the second song I thought "kind of reminds me of Jethro Tull". By the end of their set I decided that there was still some really interesting things happening in progressive rock.
Fool that I am...
welcome to the fools garden
We're all fools here... can you believe some people consider Jethro Tull progressive??? Pah!
p.s. new pyramid here!
just to add a brick in the new pyramid . and someone consider Camel progressive .. what a fools
Sorry people but I had to move your little pyramid to the mother of all pyramids...
News came from Argentina - A friend just told me they're starting to see the pyramid's top from there. And I'm starting to hear admin footsteps from here.
PD: Useful info for the Mozilla guys, this page is not opening anymore on Firefox.
PD2: U2 is so progressive! What a name!!!??
take Google Chrome , i am using it and page perfectly opens there. and yeah , our pyramid is huge .. we can reach the sun now ..
Joined: November 22 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 1955
Posted: June 18 2009 at 17:45
angelmk wrote:
AlexUC wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
Jake Kobrin wrote:
angelmk wrote:
Turbo wrote:
Jake Kobrin wrote:
KingCrimson250 wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
el dingo wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
el dingo wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
AlexUC wrote:
AlexUC wrote:
~Rael~ wrote:
The T wrote:
crimson87 wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
HolyMoly wrote:
The T wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
~Rael~ wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
his/her
their
Actually Walter is right (something I thought I'd never say). He used artist as a singular so the pronoun should be singular as well.
'His/her' or 'his or her' are very clumsy ways of circumventing problems with gender in pronouns though. Enter the plural form, convenient and accepted as an alternative, despite its conflict with the singular form of 'artist'. And it's logical, too. Walter really means the totality of pre-'89 artists here, not just a single one.
Actually, it is not acceptable to match a singular pronoun with a plural counterpart, or vice versa. The best alternative would have been to write "you're neglecting a pre-1989 artist and that artist's masterpieces." Less clunky than "his or her" or "his/her." And I do not think Walter meant the totality of pre-'89 artists, because all of Walter's grammar seems competent, so his use of "his/her" was obviously intentional. Plus, "his/her" or "his or her" is perfectly accpetable. And grammatical correctness always supersedes style.
Using "they" after a singular pronoun is starting to become okay in writing, but it still has a couple decades to integrate itself fully into the English language and become truly acceptable. And even then, it won't be correct to everyone.
And the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary agrees with me too - though it does admit that the use of 'they/their/etc." after a singular noun or pronoun is considered erroneous by some.
Isn't language fun?
It is fun, that's why I'm such a grammar nazi. But a plural pronoun taking the place of a singular noun is just plain wrong no matter how many people mess it up.
I think we all agree that one word can have many meanings. Personally I see 'their' as used in my suggestion as a singular pronoun with the same form as a plural one. Is it a perfect use? No, but his/her looks like crap in mine, and at least some authorities' opinion, and so 'their' is preferable. And until a better alternative shows up (unlikely), it stands.
Well actually like I mentioned earlier, the idea of gender neutral pronouns is starting to form but probably won't be in mainstream usage for some time. For example, the word that could be used in this scenario would be "hir." But for now, we just have his/her or one's or there is the alternative of just using the noun itself instead of a pronoun.
Copperud considered this usage established (though still somewhat controversial) as far back as the early '80s. Ditto Quirk, Greenbaum et al. , and they say it was American English that was the fastest in adopting it I can see there is some resistance to it, but unless it was first gaining ground since the early '80s, only to be almost unanimously rejected somewhere in the mid-to-late '90s probably and is being slowly brought back now.... what you and Rael say is somewhat at odds with the sources I provide.
'Hir' sounds and looks dreadful, BTW. I can see it being rejected only because it looks so artificial.
At my school we learned gender neutral pronouns during orientation so we could use them in regards to a person who did not want to be associated with either end of the gender binary. Yes, I do go to a liberal arts school.
Interesting.
Umm, they did not teach you to use 'hir', did they...?
The pyramid game!
As opposed to Ivan's colour game
I just want to see how big a pyramid we can create...
It's like Ummagumma!
I think the discussion was over when someone said Walter has no style. Never use his/her, use ones.
Pyramid
A pyramid is a building where the outer surfaces are triangular and converge at a point. The base of a pyramid is usually trilateral or quadrilateral (but may be of any polygon shape), meaning that a pyramid usually has four or five faces. A pyramid's design, with the majority of the weight closer to the ground,[1]means that less material higher up on the pyramid will be pushing down from above: this allowed early civilizations to create stable monumental structures.
and ours pyramid i would call WalterDigsTunesandpyramids
This pyramid is still being excavated...
Teodigspyramidstoo
C'mon are the decemberists that uninteresting that you have to make giant pyramids in order to keep the thread going??
You are either with us or against us!!
Don't forget the apostrophe in "one's" to signal the possessive, lol.
And, Visitor13, are you a professor, English major, etc? It just seems like you would have to be. Also, do you live in the US?
Right now I am studying for a secondary education English degree, and right now plan on teaching the plural/singular agreement the traditional way, because it will be safer for my students when the enter college.
And, I know you mean well, but the professors I have had are very smart, I do not question their knowledge of the English language, and with all due respect, will take their advice on the issue. I actually think "their" is perfectly acceptable after a singular pronoun, but where I live (Midwest USA, near St. Louis) it is not yet widely accepted, if at all.
I don't know what's going on here, but please take my two cents for this wonderful pyramid. Hope this will inspire more and more people to take care of our planet
Oh, and we're helping M@X with some load testing here too. I just want to see how many levels do we need here before seeing some strange server error
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck would?
If we're going for the biggest pyramid in the history of PA, I am going to dedicate it to Rameses II
You should dedicate it to Ramases, which is almost the same thing except tastefully proggy.
After a quick listen that's by me - as if anyone needs my permission
Visitor13 wrote:
The previous page is totally ruined now, completely unreadable.
who cares, only things matter is keep the spirit of The Decemberists ..build this lovely pyramid .. grammar lessons .. as long as servers work
The objective here is to find out if the pyramids were built by egyptians alone, by egyptians with help of extraterrestrial beings, or by People Fooled by the December People
People who love December people , hardworking ones .. built and are still building this monster of pyramid
The OP has to be proud... his observance of Foolproof methods have given birth to one of the most trascendental moments in PA's history: the time when we stop being a forum and turn intoa civilization.
we are building a history ..
...AND a building...
Now that we've evolved into a civilization, we ought to divide into factions and have a power struggle
My first exposure to them was watching the ATT webcast from Bonnarooo last weekend.
Halfway through the first song I thought "this is interesting". By the end of the second song I thought "kind of reminds me of Jethro Tull". By the end of their set I decided that there was still some really interesting things happening in progressive rock.
Fool that I am...
welcome to the fools garden
We're all fools here... can you believe some people consider Jethro Tull progressive??? Pah!
p.s. new pyramid here!
just to add a brick in the new pyramid . and someone consider Camel progressive .. what a fools
Sorry people but I had to move your little pyramid to the mother of all pyramids...
News came from Argentina - A friend just told me they're starting to see the pyramid's top from there. And I'm starting to hear admin footsteps from here.
PD: Useful info for the Mozilla guys, this page is not opening anymore on Firefox.
PD2: U2 is so progressive! What a name!!!??
take Google Chrome , i am using it and page perfectly opens there. and yeah , our pyramid is huge .. we can reach the sun now ..
Snow Dog wrote:
I like the apex of the pyramid...it just says his/her.
yeah indeed .. all started with that magic words his/her ..those were the foundations of the pyramid
Joined: April 11 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 247
Posted: June 19 2009 at 00:08
@ Visitor13
Sorry, haven't been on in a while.
When I say professor, I mean people who have PhD's, and people who I trust to be very knowledgeable.
I'm sure there is a lot of literature on your side, but I don't really see the relevance. Just because it has been written down in a bunch of books doesn't mean it is (or should) be accepted by society (general society or academia)..
I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress, I repeat myself when under stress . . .
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Posted: June 19 2009 at 03:26
angelmk wrote:
angelmk wrote:
AlexUC wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
Jake Kobrin wrote:
angelmk wrote:
Turbo wrote:
Jake Kobrin wrote:
KingCrimson250 wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
el dingo wrote:
ClemofNazareth wrote:
el dingo wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
AlexUC wrote:
AlexUC wrote:
~Rael~ wrote:
The T wrote:
crimson87 wrote:
The T wrote:
angelmk wrote:
mr.cub wrote:
HolyMoly wrote:
The T wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
~Rael~ wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
moreitsythanyou wrote:
Visitor13 wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
his/her
their
Actually Walter is right (something I thought I'd never say). He used artist as a singular so the pronoun should be singular as well.
'His/her' or 'his or her' are very clumsy ways of circumventing problems with gender in pronouns though. Enter the plural form, convenient and accepted as an alternative, despite its conflict with the singular form of 'artist'. And it's logical, too. Walter really means the totality of pre-'89 artists here, not just a single one.
Actually, it is not acceptable to match a singular pronoun with a plural counterpart, or vice versa. The best alternative would have been to write "you're neglecting a pre-1989 artist and that artist's masterpieces." Less clunky than "his or her" or "his/her." And I do not think Walter meant the totality of pre-'89 artists, because all of Walter's grammar seems competent, so his use of "his/her" was obviously intentional. Plus, "his/her" or "his or her" is perfectly accpetable. And grammatical correctness always supersedes style.
Using "they" after a singular pronoun is starting to become okay in writing, but it still has a couple decades to integrate itself fully into the English language and become truly acceptable. And even then, it won't be correct to everyone.
And the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary agrees with me too - though it does admit that the use of 'they/their/etc." after a singular noun or pronoun is considered erroneous by some.
Isn't language fun?
It is fun, that's why I'm such a grammar nazi. But a plural pronoun taking the place of a singular noun is just plain wrong no matter how many people mess it up.
I think we all agree that one word can have many meanings. Personally I see 'their' as used in my suggestion as a singular pronoun with the same form as a plural one. Is it a perfect use? No, but his/her looks like crap in mine, and at least some authorities' opinion, and so 'their' is preferable. And until a better alternative shows up (unlikely), it stands.
Well actually like I mentioned earlier, the idea of gender neutral pronouns is starting to form but probably won't be in mainstream usage for some time. For example, the word that could be used in this scenario would be "hir." But for now, we just have his/her or one's or there is the alternative of just using the noun itself instead of a pronoun.
Copperud considered this usage established (though still somewhat controversial) as far back as the early '80s. Ditto Quirk, Greenbaum et al. , and they say it was American English that was the fastest in adopting it I can see there is some resistance to it, but unless it was first gaining ground since the early '80s, only to be almost unanimously rejected somewhere in the mid-to-late '90s probably and is being slowly brought back now.... what you and Rael say is somewhat at odds with the sources I provide.
'Hir' sounds and looks dreadful, BTW. I can see it being rejected only because it looks so artificial.
At my school we learned gender neutral pronouns during orientation so we could use them in regards to a person who did not want to be associated with either end of the gender binary. Yes, I do go to a liberal arts school.
Interesting.
Umm, they did not teach you to use 'hir', did they...?
The pyramid game!
As opposed to Ivan's colour game
I just want to see how big a pyramid we can create...
It's like Ummagumma!
I think the discussion was over when someone said Walter has no style. Never use his/her, use ones.
Pyramid
A pyramid is a building where the outer surfaces are triangular and converge at a point. The base of a pyramid is usually trilateral or quadrilateral (but may be of any polygon shape), meaning that a pyramid usually has four or five faces. A pyramid's design, with the majority of the weight closer to the ground,[1]means that less material higher up on the pyramid will be pushing down from above: this allowed early civilizations to create stable monumental structures.
and ours pyramid i would call WalterDigsTunesandpyramids
This pyramid is still being excavated...
Teodigspyramidstoo
C'mon are the decemberists that uninteresting that you have to make giant pyramids in order to keep the thread going??
You are either with us or against us!!
Don't forget the apostrophe in "one's" to signal the possessive, lol.
And, Visitor13, are you a professor, English major, etc? It just seems like you would have to be. Also, do you live in the US?
Right now I am studying for a secondary education English degree, and right now plan on teaching the plural/singular agreement the traditional way, because it will be safer for my students when the enter college.
And, I know you mean well, but the professors I have had are very smart, I do not question their knowledge of the English language, and with all due respect, will take their advice on the issue. I actually think "their" is perfectly acceptable after a singular pronoun, but where I live (Midwest USA, near St. Louis) it is not yet widely accepted, if at all.
I don't know what's going on here, but please take my two cents for this wonderful pyramid. Hope this will inspire more and more people to take care of our planet
Oh, and we're helping M@X with some load testing here too. I just want to see how many levels do we need here before seeing some strange server error
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck would?
If we're going for the biggest pyramid in the history of PA, I am going to dedicate it to Rameses II
You should dedicate it to Ramases, which is almost the same thing except tastefully proggy.
After a quick listen that's by me - as if anyone needs my permission
Visitor13 wrote:
The previous page is totally ruined now, completely unreadable.
who cares, only things matter is keep the spirit of The Decemberists ..build this lovely pyramid .. grammar lessons .. as long as servers work
The objective here is to find out if the pyramids were built by egyptians alone, by egyptians with help of extraterrestrial beings, or by People Fooled by the December People
People who love December people , hardworking ones .. built and are still building this monster of pyramid
The OP has to be proud... his observance of Foolproof methods have given birth to one of the most trascendental moments in PA's history: the time when we stop being a forum and turn intoa civilization.
we are building a history ..
...AND a building...
Now that we've evolved into a civilization, we ought to divide into factions and have a power struggle
My first exposure to them was watching the ATT webcast from Bonnarooo last weekend.
Halfway through the first song I thought "this is interesting". By the end of the second song I thought "kind of reminds me of Jethro Tull". By the end of their set I decided that there was still some really interesting things happening in progressive rock.
Fool that I am...
welcome to the fools garden
We're all fools here... can you believe some people consider Jethro Tull progressive??? Pah!
p.s. new pyramid here!
just to add a brick in the new pyramid . and someone consider Camel progressive .. what a fools
Sorry people but I had to move your little pyramid to the mother of all pyramids...
News came from Argentina - A friend just told me they're starting to see the pyramid's top from there. And I'm starting to hear admin footsteps from here.
PD: Useful info for the Mozilla guys, this page is not opening anymore on Firefox.
PD2: U2 is so progressive! What a name!!!??
take Google Chrome , i am using it and page perfectly opens there. and yeah , our pyramid is huge .. we can reach the sun now ..
Snow Dog wrote:
I like the apex of the pyramid...it just says his/her.
yeah indeed .. all started with that magic words his/her ..those were the foundations of the pyramid
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Posted: June 18 2009 at 17:27
yeah indeed .. all started with that magic words his/her ..those were the foundations of the pyramid 
Do The Decemberists have people fooled?
Topic Options
AlexUC wrote:
by me - as if anyone needs my permission
