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Green Shield Stamp ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 17 2009 Location: Telford, UK Status: Offline Points: 933 |
![]() Posted: October 29 2009 at 05:16 |
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I know you all hate negative polls, but some questions just need to be asked!
I watched the documentary 'Genesis: A History' last night. I was surprised that the band (Collins, Rutherford and Banks) seemed quite dismissive of many of the albums that are highly celebrated on this website. They consistently argued that the band were getting better with each passing album. The suggested that ABACAB was a real landmark album for them, and Collins argued that one of the best and most effective songs they had written was 'Invisible Touch' (from the album of the same name). I thought it was interesting that the band's point of view was very different from the points of view of many of us who contribute to these pages.
So, which do you think is the worst album?
I think that accolade should go to 'Genesis' - Illegal Alien is in my opinion the worst song ever produced by Genesis. I don't like the plastic sounding 80s production on the album. The cover is also horrific.
Do you agree?
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Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic.... |
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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In other interviews I've heard Phil Collins say his favourite album overall was actually the Lamb. Banks has often said his favourite was Wind & Wuthering.
If the Genesis DVD you're talking about is the one I'm thinking of, then it was made around 1990. I think their perspective on Invisible Touch has changed somewhat. In more recent interviews Banks has cited it as the bands weakest album. Which of course it is, on every level apart from having been a cash cow. So for me, predictable I guess, but Invisible Touch is the worst Genesis album by far. Abacab has a few hi-lights, but to me, seems like a half arsed album. It sounds like they wrote a couple of good songs, but were pushed for time, so churned out a load of bilge quickly to make the release date. Genesis isn't so bad, although I find illegal Alien toe curling. Some would say Genesis ceased to be a prog band after Duke, some would say after Wind and Wuthering, and some would go further and say after the Lamb. Depends on your perspective. For me, everything they done between 1970 - 1980 inclusive was excellent, and they remain my top all time prog band. |
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fuxi ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: March 08 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2488 |
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I remember Tony Banks saying similar things (about the band playing better and recording their strongest material after W & W) in an interview accompanying the recent reunion concert in Rome.
I can see he's got a point. In the 1980s they became a succesful conventional rock band, a well-oiled machine, and they probably had more fun than in the 1970s. Some of their later tunes (e.g. "Jesus He Loves Me") are (almost) delightful. But you can count me in among those who believe they never did anything better than SELLING ENGLAND! |
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b_olariu ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: March 02 2007 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 5536 |
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selftitled for me 1983, the most uninspired and bad sounded album of theirs for sure, worst then Invisible or can't dance or even then calling all station, I don't know but I can't get into this release for years.
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valravennz ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: March 20 2005 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 2546 |
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Actually, for me, The Lamb was and is still the hardest Genesis album to get into. I have never really got to grips with it and in comparison with earlier and the much maligned albums of the 80's period such as "Abacab" and the s/t "Genesis", The Lamb, imo is long, ponderous and boring!! The best album they ever did and never surpassed was SEBTP.
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![]() "Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
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Roland113 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 30 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 3843 |
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Honestly, "From Genesis to Revelation" is their worst for me with Abacab coming in second.
Invisible Touch has never bothered me. I'm not going to call it a paragon of progressive rock, but it's still a great album with only a few clunkers. I find it amusing that the much maligned album (according to progressive fans) is really the one that made them comfortable for the rest of their lives. Here's something to think about, especially for the musicians out there. Would you rather be playing "Selling England" to a room of about two hundred ultra critical fellow musicians who sit in their seats for the entire show analyzing your every note OR playing "The Last Domino" to Stadiums of screaming fans who are jumping up and down obviously in love with everything that you do in front of a huge state of the art video screen? . . . and don't forget, in the second option, you're not moving your own equipment at the end of the show. Yeah, I'd play Invisible Touch without a single regret. Sorry, went on a rant . . . Worst album is "From Genesis to Revelation", best is Selling England, Invisible Touch gets an unfair rap on this site. |
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-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------
I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms. |
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Snow Dog ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
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From Genesis To Relevation and Calling All Stations.
I like the rest. Edited by Snow Dog - October 29 2009 at 07:08 |
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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As big of fan of the band as I was in the late '70's I can't really answer the question because I still haven't heard one of the studio albums yet: We Can't Dance. I basically lost interest in keeping up with them as they went commercial. I guess I'm one of the few who actually like their debut album and replaced my first CD of it with a Japan LP sleeve version no too long ago.
I have the video retrospective where the notorious three were very dismissive of their prog fans and it really pissed me off. I saw them on the Duke tour and I'm pretty sure the majority of the fans who were at the show I saw were there were prog fans. Edited by Slartibartfast - October 29 2009 at 07:25 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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catfood03 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 24 2009 Status: Offline Points: 785 |
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I think Invisible Touch is excellent, even the songs over-killed on the radio. For me I can't think of a "bad" Genesis album, but I think "ATTW3" is a bit weak (with the notable exception of "Motherlode", "Burning Rope" and a couple others)
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ExittheLemming ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Penal Colony Status: Offline Points: 11420 |
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Haven't heard most of the so called 'turkey's from the 80's but did hear 'We Can't Dance' in its entirety once at a party (which begs the question, why did the host invite me: did a flu epidemic decimate the guestlist?)
It's a decent pop album which to be fair doesn't pretend to be anything other but in comparison with their rich and enduring legacy, We Can't Dance gives squeaky toys a bad name... |
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Dick Heath ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12818 |
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As ever, thisbegs the question: what would have Kevin Gilbert bought to the party with the possibility of fresh and invigorating ideas, if he had not died just before an audition to replace Collins
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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HolyMoly ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26138 |
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Calling All Stations, definitely. Couldn't bear to hear it more than once. I was so disappointed with that one. Maybe it just sounded so unlike Genesis without Phil in there, but the music itself also completely failed to be compelling in any way to me.
Invisible Touch is a top-notch pop album, as is the s/t Genesis album, and particularly the latter. I have no problem with either of those. We Can't Dance has its weak spots, even from a pop music perspecitve, but overall it's not bad. I've seen FGTR mentioned here too - that also has some weak spots (e.g. Window, In Limbo, Fireside Song), but the strong numbers are excellent (e.g. In the Wilderness, In the Beginning, Am I Very Wrong).
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
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The Quiet One ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 16 2008 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 15745 |
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Invisible Touch is the worst Genesis album, from the point of view of a Prog fan. Edited by The Quiet One - October 29 2009 at 08:46 |
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Roland113 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 30 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 3843 |
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Seconded, I would have loved to see that. |
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-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------
I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms. |
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Moogtron III ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: April 26 2005 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 10616 |
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Like Blacksword, I love everything they have done from 1970 - 1980.
Like Snow Dog, for many years Genesis' first and last studio albums were my least favourite, though in the past few years my opinion towards From Genesis To Revelation has changed a bit : I start to like it a bit after all. Abacab: I admire them for making something really fresh, but I don't like it as much as I did anymore. It's not a bad album at all, though, and every song is good. Just not brilliant. I'm not a big fan of Genesis ("Shapes" / The Yellow album), though when it came out back in 1983 I was absolutely crazy about it. I still like Mama and Home By The Sea / Second Home By The Sea a lot, but the rest is a big weak for Genesis standards. Still not a bad album, with no bad song on it. I remember Tony Banks saying in an old interview that he really liked side one, and thought that side two (from "Illegal Alien" on) was easily the worst they had ever done. Invisible Touch: they invested in a modern production, and modern drum and synth sounds, which is nice. Once again, I used to be crazy about it when it came out. I remember Rutherford saying that it was their best album since A Trick Of The Tail. It's interesting to see that their opinions have changed about the album. Once again, decent album, but somehow something is missing. Substance? Depth? Well, maybe it's simply prog that is missing, though on a pop level it is quite a good album. And Domino is still a nice epic. So is Tonight, Tonight, Tonight, but it has the worst Genesis lyric ever done ("Tonight tonight tonight we're gonna make it right"). But it's not like the old stuff anymore. We Can't Dance: decent, and never a bad song, like with all the '80's albums, but it sounds even more 'flat' than Invisible Touch. The drums sound a bit tame. Where's the adventurous Collins? Still, even that one is not a bad album. But it's certainly one of my least favourite albums. They were good craftsmen at that time, but the artistic level has dropped immensely. I don't blame them, but I'm just not happy with it. I admire Banks and Rutherford in their effort to make a 'darker' Genesis with Calling All Stations, but I have the feeling that somehow the album doesn't work out. Not for me, but I guess neither for many other Genesis fans. I think the compositions are not so good (except for "Calling All Stations" and "Congo", though the latter song needed to be abbreviated ). Objectively, I'd say that the worst album is Genesis, because there it seems that the did the least trouble to make a great album. As it comes to personal taste, I choose Calling All Stations. Edited by Moogtron III - October 29 2009 at 09:47 |
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splyu ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() Joined: September 06 2008 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 316 |
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Whatever it is, it's not the self-titled. Indeed, I'd go as far as saying that's the best album from the three-man era. Don't care that much for Illegal Alien either (though it's OK) but the rest of the second side is very good, too, especially Just A Job To Do and Silver Rainbow, really good stuff IMO. And the first side is monstrous.
I don't feel like naming a worst album, in fact every album has at least a few tracks I really like. For example, what's not to like about The Dividing Line and Alien Afternoon? Fading Lights and Living Forever? Domino and The Brazilian? etc... |
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crimhead ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: October 10 2006 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 19236 |
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I think that a little slack needs to be given seeing that From Genesis to ....is their first album. Most bands don't come out of the gate with a great album or an album that people migrate to. I think that Genesis didn't hit their stride till SEBTP. Something else to consider would you rather put out a great album as your first then have mediocre albums to follow or slowly refine your songwriting skills and be more successful in the long run. Case in point PF had a great first album then some lesser ones till they got to Meddle/DSOTM. |
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I think 'FGTR' was not bad as a debut album, when you consider they were about 18 and trying to please Jonathan King. It was a 'foot in the door' album and not really representative of what they would become. I guess this is why most people regard Trespass as their true debut.
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Roland113 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 30 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 3843 |
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Crimhead, I think both of your points are certainly valid, I wouldn't expect any band's first album to be their best. If it is, the band will be plagued by questions of 'what happened' for the rest of their career which is kind of what you were getting at in your second point (if i understand that correctly). Regardless of whether or not I give it slack, it remains the only Genesis album that I don't listen to with any kind of regularity and thus for me, it's their worst. Tom |
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-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------
I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms. |
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Finnforest ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 17607 |
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The Gabriel stuff is all that excites me.
The Box Set #1 is all I need for my desert island
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