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akajazzman 
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 Topic: What was the first Prog Album?
Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:00 |
OK, I'm sure this question has been beat to death around here before, but I don't come here often so please don't beat me up about that. Also, please don't beat me up over what a stupid question you might think it is, I actually think its an interesting question.
The question is, what was the first Prog Rock album? I mean "Prog" in the King Crimson, Yes, ELP, Genesis sense of the term. Not pysch, or proto-prog,space rock, or pre-prog.
I have a friend that is nuts over King Crimson. He thinks they are ground zero for everything and the greatest thing ever. I actually love KC a lot too (have almost all their albums/CDs). As a kick I'd like to prove him wrong that In the Court of the Crimson King wasn't the first Prog Rock album. But I can't seem to find another album that came earlier.
Yes, there were earlier albums like Soft Machine's I and II, or Pink Floyd's first couple of albums, or even the first Caravan album, or early Tull. But they don't count for this discussion, they're realy "proto-Prog" or experimental, or art, or psych. Moody Blues and Procol Harum also don't count for this discussion.
I'm talking about that "you know it when you hear it" Gentle Giant, National Heath, Kahn, U.K., PFM, VDGG style Prog that is more than just psych, arty or jazzy. The sort of stuff you hear on KC's first album. Composed Rock, different sections or even songs strung together, played with virtuosity, with some long instrumental passages and long trade-offs and some improv breaks. Prog Rock!
Please give me an example of this type of album that came before KC's "In the Court of the Crimson King"
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thellama73
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:04 |
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In The Court of the Crimosn King.
/thread
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Snow Dog
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:07 |
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Ars Longa Vita Brevis - The Nice
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thellama73
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:10 |
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Okay, to be a little more constructive (although I do believe ITCotCKis the first) The Crazy World of Arthur Brown came out in 1968, and is pretty proggy in my opinion, although I suppose it could be dismissed as mere psych. Frank Zappa's Freak Out! is from 1966. The second half of that might qualify. I'll let you know if I think of others.
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lazland
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:11 |
Hi and welcome to the forum. If you look through previous threads, you will realise that this is the sort of question that gets people tied up in knots, endlessly debating what is prog and not prog. For example, you want to discount proto prog bands, but many of us on the site would regard such bands as being genuinely prog. It's the sort of subject where you will never really get a definitive answer  It's actually, though, a fair question. Most people regard ITCOTCK as being the archetypal first "proper" prog LP, in the sense that most people understand prog. However, others, and I include myself here, would point to Procol Harum's first three, for example, or The Moody Blues Days of Future Passed and the subsequent four albums. The Who's Tommy is a glorious example of concept album meeting sixties rock. I would regard it as pure prog, although others, probably including Townsend, would argue. In conclusion, how long is a piece of string? How large is the universe? Cleverer people than me have to answer these and the question you pose 
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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Vibrationbaby
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:15 |
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Dutch Masters by Focus. Love the fast version of Hocus Pocus.
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VanVanVan
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:16 |
I know you sort of dismissed Procol Harum, but I think that their epic In Held Twas In I could be considered the first prog epic in the modern sense, in that it was through composed and structural throughout unlike some of the jazz and free-form "epics" that had been released before. I don't think the rest of that album is all that proggy, but that song is huge in the development of prog and you could make an argument for it being the first appearance of "prog" in the modern sense.
If you want a full LP, though, I think it has to be ITCOTCK. Sorry.  |
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"The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen
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Anthony H.
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:17 |
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In the Court of the Crimson King.
I don't think very many people would dispute that.
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lazland
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:21 |
 Anthony H. wrote:
In the Court of the Crimson King.
I don't think very many people would dispute that.
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Just wait, Anthony, just wait.... 
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
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Vibrationbaby
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 14:26 |
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I really didn't get into Crimson until about '78. Was more interested in European bands like Guru Guru, Brainticket & Nue!.
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apps79
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 16:17 |
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What about EAST OF EDEN's ''Mercator projected''?Very experimental album to my ears,pure progressive rock which blends elements from folk,jazz rock,psychedelia,blues and classic music...but is there anyone who knows the exact date the album was released....I think ITCOTCK was released in October 69'.
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cannon
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 16:22 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Ars Longa Vita Brevis - The Nice |
I would have to agree.
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cannon
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 16:23 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Ars Longa Vita Brevis - The Nice |
I would have to agree.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 16:38 |
You agree so much.,..you agreed twice!
Edited by Snow Dog - July 23 2010 at 16:38
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akajazzman
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 16:39 |
Wow, I step away from my desk and a few hours later this fantastic discussion.
Everyone, thanks so much, some thoughtful feedback. I don't have "Ars Longa Vita Brevis" and will want to check that out; same with East of Eden.
Lazland, thanks for your post. I do love all the pre-KC bands too. I may discount their pre-1969/70 albums for this discussion, but I'll enjoy early Soft Machine, Procol, Moody's, Floyd, A. Brown, etc any day.
Can't wait to see what others say. I too am of the opinion that ground zero for what I'm talking about is ITCOTCK, but I seriously want to find something "just" as modern Prog sounding so I can shut my friend up. He's driving me nuts on this. Its like because In the Court of the Crimson King is probably "the first", he ranks them above all others that came after. Obviously they deserve kudos for it, but it shouldn't be that "oh Genesis we're great, BUT THEY WEREN"T THE FIRST". Even when he doesn't say it, I know thats what he's thinking.
I just want a snappy answer to say something like "actually, "Ars Longa Vita Brevis" I believe to be the first! " ;-)
Don't get me wrong, he's one of my best friends, this is all in good fun.
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Kojak
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 16:50 |
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Why don't you just punch him? That'd shut him up.
Nah, just messing with ya. Ars Longa Vita Brevis is not a bad album to check out anyway. But, I'm thinking ITCOTCK......
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aprusso
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 16:53 |
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THE BEACH BOYS - Pet Sounds (early 1966)
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moshkito
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 17:25 |
Hi,
The Beatles - Sgt Pepper's
The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds
Frank Zappa - Freak Out
Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde
The rest is not as innovative as most seem to think. These broke major grounds in the music business, where as a lot of the other stuff listed here is ... all talk, by comparison. And KC's first is not a "prog" album ... it's a band in search of a chord/song, albeit it one that was very well rehearsed and defined, which was getting kinda ... lost in the name of rock'n'roll, or some other idiotic concept!
Edited by moshkito - July 23 2010 at 19:57
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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moshkito
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 17:28 |
akajazzman wrote:
Obviously they deserve kudos for it, but it shouldn't be that "oh Genesis we're great, BUT THEY WEREN"T THE FIRST". Even when he doesn't say it, I know thats what he's thinking.
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With this group here ... I think you are better off asking which came first, the chicken or the egg, because the only answers you are going to have are going to be favorites and not historical. Naming KC the first is akin to saying that ... you have never heard music prior to the day that you heard that album ... and even then, you still not listening to "music" ... and saddest thing here ... even Robert wouldn't be amused. He has said many times that it isn't "progressive" or "prog" ... it's just music done by a few people together ... and we still tell him where to stuff it!
We can't even do him some credit and remove it from the top ten!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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The Truth
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Posted: July 23 2010 at 17:42 |
Bob Dylan's Highway 61 Revisited
Hey! It was progressive at the time!
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What was the first Prog Album?
