Do the Beatles get too much credit.. |
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Logan
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Posted: August 28 2010 at 14:55 |
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Undoubtedly the Beatles were hugely influential (has been incredibly popular), but do you think/feel that the Beatles commonly get too much credit and/or consideration in terms of innovation and origination?
I certainly think so. |
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 17995 |
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Maybe a little bit too much credit, especially in recent times, but really I think it's deservedly so. They were one of the groups that showed other people "hey, you know, it's alright to play whatever music we want" and from that stemmed nearly all later music, popular and less so, even if the bands in question aren't influenced in the slightest by the music of the Beatles. It was the concept of creativity for the masses that makes them so important
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 07 2008 Location: Philadelphia,PA Status: Offline Points: 7826 |
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Absolutely not. They're one of the only bands that was immensely popular but never caved in to the record industry. Their early albums are a bit overrated IMO, but the later masterpieces definitely make up for it in the end. One of the most influential, and best, bands ever.
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Logan
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I don't think many would dispute, any more than I would, that The Beatles were hugely influential and had a tremendous impact on music, but in terms of origination of musical ideas and true innovation, I think they're overrated. I don't doubt their importance at all, and I like this statement "It was the concept of creativity for the masses that makes them so important." What I do suspect is that they were being given exposure to a lot of underground music that was more innovative (asnd more musically astute associates such as George Martin helped to elevate the music). I listen to the Beatles albums, and I can think of many more, that I would think, were more musically creative/ inventive before them. They popularised such ideas, I would say, but I doubt that they were as originative as quite a few claim.
Some claim that Sgt. Peppers was the first Prog album, but I hear others from the same time and earlier that seem like much more progressive rock. It was an important album to Prog, I won't deny that. I've seen claims made that tthat The Beatles originated Psychadelic Rock and Raga Rock, which is not true. Musicians/ composers borrow ideas for music. Music is not born in a vacuum, other than the Hoover Symphony was born in a vacuum cleaner, and they adapt, that's progress, but I think that those who influenced The Beatles are not getting enough credit. |
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elder08
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I had this argument with someone the other day about who was better muscially Pink Floyd or The Beatles and I said while the beatles have inspired probably every popular artist today immensely, Pink Floyd pretty much had one kindofsortofnotreally bad album and were pretty much Omega good from the start
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"There are people who say we [Pink Floyd] should make room for younger bands. That's not the way it works. They can make their own room."- David Gilmour
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Slartibartfast
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And in the end, maybe, I don't really care...
I think they get the credit they are due. |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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jammun
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My stock answer:
Go listen the the American Graffiti soundtrack. Now go listen to the first couple of Beatles albums.
Then tell me who was innovating.
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Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
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Triceratopsoil
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and that's the key difference Edited by Triceratopsoil - August 28 2010 at 16:35 |
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UndercoverBoy
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Edited by UndercoverBoy - August 28 2010 at 16:59 |
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Chris S
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They deserve every shred of credit.........but the show must go on
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Logan
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This article is for you then, "The Beatles are the most creative band of all time": http://www.starcrost.com/entertainment/beatles.php |
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UndercoverBoy
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Logan
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Chris S
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^^^ Interesting reading, particularly referencing Macca at the most popular songwriter, not necessarily the best. Personally I would put Lennon above Macca for songwriting. They are influential beyond comprehension and hit the music scene at the best possible time. Comparing Beatles to PF would be futile IMO because they impacted different decades while in their prime.
I know this will be frowned upon but in many respects subjective opinions do carry more weight when you were actually there. For example a 20 year old gives Let It Be a three star review and he/she cannot understand all the hype about the album would have to have been around in the NOW to fully appreciate it. Yet to counter that I fully believe that The Beatles will end up being the biggest band of all time for millenia. That would be the popular belief
Now the best..... Edited by Chris S - August 28 2010 at 17:43 |
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Chris S
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, I ain't gonna read it.Too much negative energy..LOL
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caretaker
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I've never been a big Beatles fan but to answer the question I voted no. It seemed like after they did the pop thing their financial success freed them up to do more creative and innovative things which I give them credit for. And they certainly influenced quite a lot of other musicians as they were influenced by the artists of their era.
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Icarium
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Pet Sounds Pet Sounds Pet Sounds Pet Sounds Pet Sounds +++++, it is the first prog-related album and is verry inovative album, probably not the best but it is damn good, record which sadly are to overshadowed by Sg Pepper...,
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rogerthat
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I think, as with Metallica, people get carried away in the business of firsts when it comes to Beatles, but there's no denying their influence and importance. Besides, at least in my opinion, they were the best of the big bands, be it pop or rock. It takes a lot of guts to go the 'other way' when you are a successful band and to sign off with arguably your best album. Beatles did it and I can't think of any other big band who have lived up to their example or their quality.
EDIT: Oops, I voted Yes when I meant to say No. Edited by rogerthat - August 28 2010 at 20:55 |
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Floydman
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They deserve the status as being THE MOST INFLUENTIAL ROCK/POP BAND EVER.
Get back to me when you can find evidence of a rock group—any rock group in 1966, but, perhaps even more notably, using multitrack recording to produce something like "Tomorrow Never Knows" and then using their platform as the Most Popular Band in the world to expose millions of listeners to those new sounds
If anything the Beatles were the biggest influence overall on early progressive rockers and psychedelic rock.
The Beatles had influences like everyone else but they came in sounding like no one else "A Hard Day's Night", "I Want to Hold Your Hand", "If I Fell" etc,. The early Kinks, Yardbirds, and The Rolling Stones all sounded like blues wannabees.
The fact the Beatles were the main cog in the British Invasion and George Harrison use of the Ricky12 string guitar really launched folk-rock. The chord usage on songs like "If I Fell" floored people like Bob Dylan and The Byrds and was miles ahead of people like the Rolling Stones and the blues based peers. People like Brian Wilson thought Rubber Soul was the first album that was a complete statement.
Are you kidding me - from a pop music song structure to recording engineering standpoint - you're hard pressed to NOT hear the Beatles influence everywhere in modern pop recordings. Music progresses and people create different styles and techniques. The psychedelic use as a studio instrument for example like loops, varispeeding, backward tape was already a different style than say Brian Wilson or Phil Spector. Strawberry Fields Forever" was constructed uniquely.. There are edits of three sections taken from two different takes. 0:00 to 0:55 is take 7, 0:55 to 1:00 is another section of take 7, and 1:00 to end is take 26. It is fairly well known that take 26 was really faster and in a higher key, and that slowing it down to match the tempo also brought into the same key. The idea of the edit is credited to the songwriter, John Lennon, while its execution, involving the manipulation of tape speed and the use of the 5-second bridge segment, is credited to the producer, George Martin. It's unlikely that many (or any) recordings done prior to 1962 featured splicing of tape to combine takes or bouncing of tracks. 2 track tape machines (later 4, 8, 16, 24 and on) were not widely available until Studer and Telefunken devloped them their versions in the late 50's/early 60's. Prior to that recordings were mainly made direct to disc - making combining takes impossible. Later in the 60's, some of those direct to disc performances were transferred to tape and performances could then be edited/combined after that. It's a fact that The Beatles' ideas and demands pushed engineers like Norman Smith, Geoff Emerick, Chris Thomas, Glynn Johns, Alan Parsons etc. to develop new techniques that formed the groundwork for modern digital editing we see today with Protools, etc. Knowing an recording engineer. I promise you that if you read up on Beatles recording techniques you'll be astounded at how many things their engineers did for the first time as crazy, rule-breaking ideas, experiments, etc. that have since become common practice in modern day recording and editing. Necessity was the mother of invention in their case. Are you kidding me - from a pop music song structure to recording engineering standpoint - you're hard pressed to NOT hear the Beatles influence everywhere in modern pop recordings. Let's see: some of these not of course invented by the Beatles but certainly invented new ways in using these techniques in creating a rock sound. Use of heavy limiting on drums and guitar (pioneered on Revolver, rarely if ever used before by anyone) - everywhere these days High use of treble and equalization of guitars and vocals (rare before Beatles Rubber Soul) - everywhere afterwards Key changes in middle 8/bridges of songs - everywhere Use of weird/experimental guitar chords in pop songs (VERY IN ROCK MUSIC before the Beatles) - now everywhere Artificial Double Tracking - invented by Beatles Engineer Ken Townsend, now used in one form or another on almost every song by anyone Guitar fuzz box/distortion pedal on bass used by the Beatles "Think For Yourself" during Rubber Soul sessions. You might hear these nowadays too Pioneering use of vocal effects like phasing/revolving Leslie/etc. - pioneered by the Beatles on Revolver, used extensively on Sgt Peppers - used everywhere you hear any slightly psychedelic sounding song Direct Injection (DI) bass and guitar rock recordings - used by Beatles engineers on Revolver and later. Prominent on distorted guitar on Revolution - used by virtually everyone nowadays Use of editing - Used by the Beatles first to combine multiple takes of songs into one - nowadays this is done on virtually every modern pop recording using computer technology like Pro-tools Varispeed recording (speeding up or slowing down recordings to alter the characteristics of instruments or voice) - used extensively by the Beatles first on Revolver and afterwards - now used commonly The list could go on an on. Edited by Floydman - August 28 2010 at 21:28 |
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thellama73
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I think they get a bit too much credit. They were undeniably one of the most groundbreaking and influential bands ever, but people act like they did it in a vacuum, with no help from their contemporaries. Pet Sounds was almost as influential as anything the Beatles did, but the Beach Boys are commonly dismissed as a one trick surf rock pony. The Velvet Underground arguably had even more influence on the music of the late seventies and eighties, and their debut came out the same year as Sgt. Pepper, showing little debt to the Beatles.
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