Do the Beatles get too much credit.. |
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Catcher10
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You don't get it, this is like the millionth Beatles box set released in the last 10-15 years.....More will follow since the subject is release years.
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Moonshake
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No
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17547 |
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Hi, I do, however, it would be more to the benefit of the listeners and the buyers to know one of the main differences in a lot of those releases. The first wave, specially for America, waas about the stuff that had been hidden, and lowered in volume to the background in a lot of stuff, in Sgt. Peppers and MMTour. What is crazy (for me!!!) is how another edition of the same thing is going to be different. I guess that we won't hear this with that, and that with this anymore, and stuff will be so separated as to seem like the 4 guys are not together at all ... but it sounds better? I have not bought any redo by any band ... with one exception ... Solar Music Live ... which instead of redo's has a lot of different versions of the same thing, and they are all neat. I'm not sure that any redo will sound better in my inner mind and vision ... and one I heard (KC) was actually really poor in my book ... it also hid more than it showed.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14142 |
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The mainstream majors and media, before the electronic age, had the power of influencing the listeners, but they had the power of filtering out who they tought wasn't profitable enough for an investment, they were used to spend money in advertising, TV shows and whatsoever. But you can advertise Plastic Bertrand as much as you like and he won't last more than a summer. Beatles have been surely advertised and monetized, but it didn't happen with a lot of pop rubbish even if presented as the "new big". They have their merits, and as Dave Gilmour said in response to Johnny Rotten: "Make your stuff and if you can sell it, fine" What the thread asks about the Beatles can be asked about Elvis Presley, Frank Sinatra and all the other bigs of the last century.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28135 |
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This was the very second post on the thread and nailed it. Could have just closed it straight away after. I'm not entirely sure what this thread is about anymore. It would be a joke to suggest that The Beatles were great musicians but the point was that they were empowered and influential. Their songs were everywhere. They actually had personality and were able to sell their music. I believe though that there was resentment towards them for no reason whatsoever. Yeah they could have spent more time becoming better musicians but frankly what difference would it have made? Arguably they could even have been an influence on punk as the dream of the 'band of not very great musicians that made it big'. Also they were living the rock n roll lifestyle in spades and as everyone now realises they were not the cuddly mop heads that the record company was desperate to portray them as. This also weirdly became yet another cliche of rock music. Oasis have even sold millions pretending to be a version of them lol If the Beatles aren't at least the most important pop/rock band of the twentieth century then who is? Christ, even the name sucks but that didn't stop them.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17547 |
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Hi, I tend to think that the creativity was always there, and there were many albums one could get, however, they did not become "famous" or as big as The Beatles, which kinda kept things somewhat hidden. When The Beatles made it big, and a lot of reviewers were giving it some intelligent comments, instead of discussing pop music, then things made it back to the fans faster and faster, which I think helped pretty much hurt the AM Radio band in America ... my neighbor, was a DJ on the Santa Barbara AM station and to give you an idea, he loved ELP, but could not play any of it when he was on the air, until a single was released properly. But the 2 singles that showed up, were not given a touch ... because the station did not want to give the FM Radio Stations any credit or appreciation ... at that point, it was not about the music or single at all ... it was about making sure "they were not competing with that station over there ... " But the fact that "creativity" had been opened up some more, really helped ... MASSIVE SIDE NOTE: This thing about the Beatles, would likely be more important in any other country other than America or England, where sales were not a major issue, but all of a sudden in Brazil (where I was in the early 60's), it took over the radio, along with the Rolling Stones. So yes, they deserve the credit for how so many other folks reacted to it ... but the American and English media tend to make that a not so important event ... and of course, one network, made sure that Ed Sullivan was a name that we would remember forever!!! Advertising for you! Us, here in America and Great Britain, will likely think the answer is NO, because both of those countries were way far ahead in terms of media and public knowledge of things ... as their radio waves, was about to enter a new era in music fidelity ... in America FM in STEREO ... helped showcase the new albums a lot, and it did not sound crappy like the AM radio dial! I do not think that the majority of folks posting in this thread, realize the incredible change from MONO to STEREO ... 60 years ago ... it was easily (for me) the greatest artistic event in the century ... you were hearing, for the first time, the music almost like ... you were sitting next to it! The internet today, has no idea how this could possibly have been like that ... and how so many of us old folks felt when we heard the difference. And let me tell you ... it was an even bigger difference in Latin America and other places around the world ... and we wonder how it was important or not ... IT WAS ... but there were differences in many places. But, honestly, I don't think that we have studied history of rock music well enough to be able to answer the OP properly ... I find some comments very sad. Edited by moshkito - November 21 2024 at 07:11 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Steve Wyzard
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 30 2017 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 2611 |
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Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra didn't WRITE/COMPOSE the songs recorded/released under their own names.
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progaardvark
Collaborator Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 51140 |
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I Am the Walrus pretty much sums up the influence the Beatles have had on me. Without hearing that one song, my musical output (strange as it is) may never had happened.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17547 |
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Hi, Which ... btw ... is very important ... but we have to remember that not many of the hit songs on radio at the time, let's say early 60's (but keep it generalized please) were exactly written by the members of the band, and this changed big time with The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Kinks and many others. Heck go back to The Monkees and realize how much was written by Tommy Boyce and Bobby Hart ... and they had been writing a lot of stuff going back to 1961. Your comment, btw, is one of the great changes in radio (especially in America with FM in the 60's) ... that helped bring out the new sounds and the new music, and kinda took the controls away from the recording groups and companies that were owned by the movie studios, who tried to get their stars hits to keep the money in house. They were the ones that defined the "copyrights" and how they were finally interpreted by Congress for the FCC, to take it away from a handful of megalomaniacs. One listen to American FM radio in 1971, would more than likely get you a good 90/95% of material done by the band singing it. But there still were many different folks writing stuff for others ... Kris Kristofferson was one of them, for example ... as were many others!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Jacob Schoolcraft
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 22 2021 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 1085 |
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Obviously starting with Revolver and continuing till the end of the Beatles time together...I always got the impression that they were allowed to be creative. The Beatles and George Martin together seemed to have a lot of relaxed freedom.
Having the opportunity to experiment and try new things without a record executive sticking their 2 cents worth in. Or generally having contrived pointless ideas which are not from a creative standpoint...but more about making crap up. Thoughtless actually. The Beatles became a band for the industry to exploit and were probably not as overrated as they were overplayed...or perhaps a combination of the two: Radio, television and selling their albums in America was quite a monopoly. Their songwriting was unusual in the late 60s. It differed from other people in life except for those who outright copied the Beatles or were influenced by them. In one particular case you had a band that sounded a bit like Beatles but were interesting and worthwhile and that band was BADFINGER!! Regarding the earlier Beatles songwriting style ...it seemed to filter throughout the 1970s with bands like The Raspberries and Cheap Trick...where bands like Heart and 10CC contained that element of Beatle-esq writing. The impact they had was ridiculously insane! The sound and style of the late 1960s Beatles was yet another extended influence on bands. Many bands were trying to emulate it. The first time I heard "Strawberry Fields Forever" was when it was first released as a single in America. Hearing then...was unusual! It was very different for those times and it was exciting and greatly enjoyable to play the 45rpm as you'd be thinking while placing the tonearm down: Here's something completely different and in a world of its own" Years later it didn't feel that way because the radio played it everyday . Then it was smothering. Whatever? That's subjective to degrees...but by the 1980s radio made me sick of Beatles music. I have always owned their entire discography but for years I couldn't force myself to listen to them and often changed the station. Radio took away the enjoyment for me 😆 |
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 36063 |
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^ Nice post. By the way, when I made this topic those years ago, I was thinking back many years prior to some classes I had in Philosophy dealing with ontology and epistemology and wanting to angle at it from that perspective (the nature of being, the nature of knowing, what is true, what can be known, issues of justified true belief) as well as thinking it might be a bit of fun. I originally had prepared a much longer opening post to start it out and then just went with something of less substance). Turned out to me to be a very entertaining discussion with many interesting perspectives approaching this from different angles and side-discussions.
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Jacob Schoolcraft
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Fascinating! |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17547 |
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Hi, I'm glad that since 1974 I had Space Pirate Radio, and Guy Guden as a roommate and friend, and heard a lot of stuff that since then has become "progressive music". Radio was, already in the mid 70's, not very good, if Guy's first years in Santa Barbara radio were an issue ... and how he was treated was not nice, and bad, and he was getting paid, what he jokingly stated ... Mexican Wages! Radio, specially the FM brand, was OK until the end of the 70's when almost all of the FM stations were bought out by various corporations and taken off the INDEPENDENT ownership, which allowed so much new music to be heard ... and since then, it has been all "classic" and no one gives a damn, and the FCC has changed rules so that us, the public, has no say in it, and can not return the stations to the local level that they had way back when! Today, no station anywhere in America serves them (the locality!)... they are all "corporate" sellers, and the majority of their advertising is all national accounts, and no local anything ... besides the fact that a local anything could not even buy a 15 second spot on their advertisements! The price was ridiculous and way above and beyond any company in town! The main issue is/was ... that the Beatles did not need radio anymore ... and the Internet made radio even more stupid and ridiculous ... specially it still doing exactly the same thing it did 60 years ago ... that's progress, I suppose! But it is sad, that people think that the Beatles were just another bruhaha song band, like so much of the really poor stuff being sold nowadays, and specified to be number 1 ... and supposedly selling. The Beatles (not the only ones) had a major effect on all things ... and check some things out ... some of the listing for the worst business decisions EVER ... and the Beatles and Rolling Stones, are in the top ten list ... with some folks being really out of it ... until some others opened up to the missions that could be made!
Edited by moshkito - November 22 2024 at 03:47 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Starshiper
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 08 2024 Location: Englantic Status: Offline Points: 666 |
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The Fab Four, with their unparalleled knack for melody and innovation, have not only shaped the landscape of popular music but have also influenced culture at large. To argue they receive “too much” credit is rather like claiming Shakespeare was just a chap who wrote a few plays; it simply doesn't hold water.
The Beatles' contributions span from pioneering studio techniques to introducing new genres, including shaping psychedelic rock with "Tomorrow Never Knows" and sowing seeds of progressive music in "Sgt Pepper" and "Magical Mistery Tour," as well as forerunnering the 70s art rock with "Abbey Road," all while crafting timeless tunes that still resonate even today and will resonate for good. |
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siLLy puPPy
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I would imagine that as gazillionaires that their credit is golden with platinum cards up the wazoo!
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Starshiper
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Psychedelic Paul
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The four apostles were named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but Beatles fans know them better as John, Paul, George and Ringo, and when an American tourist was asked if he'd heard of Ringo Starr, he said "The name rings a bell."
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siLLy puPPy
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Starshiper
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As for the dig about her singing style, well, let's just say art is in the eye of the beholder. What one person interprets as an unpolished vocal delivery another may find profoundly touching. For instance, The Shaggs' "Philosophy of the World" was praised by Kurt Cobain; "Trout Mask Replica" is a well-regarded record by many; Damo Suzuki's free-flowing vocals embellished some of the 1970s’ most open-minded rock music, et cetera. Ono's innovative musical style has been both celebrated and panned, but it certainly pushes the envelope. Maybe instead of hoping she had "bought" a different sound, we should celebrate the fact that she's game to buck a world that usually clings to its comfort zones. Rather
than criticise Yoko Ono for her shopping sprees or vocal deliverance,
let's applaud her singular contributions to art and culture. After all,
if we were to be bound by conventional notions of talent and conduct,
from where would progress arise? So, the next time you hear of someone
engaging in a bit of shopping therapy—or some experimentation with the
voice—just know they may well be standing at the threshold of greatness. Yoko Ono – No, No, No, from "Season of Glass" (1981) |
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Cristi
Special Collaborator Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 43873 |
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it's mind boggling how you do not see Mike was joking. 😐
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