Forum Home Forum Home > Other music related lounges > Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Do the Beatles get too much credit..
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Do the Beatles get too much credit..

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1920212223 28>
Poll Question: See opening post for question.
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
54 [31.40%]
115 [66.86%]
3 [1.74%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
Message
Meltdowner View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 25 2013
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 10238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meltdowner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 12:38
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

I prefer onion Ringos.
Onion Ringos and a glass of Lennonade.
Back to Top
Mortte View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 12:37
Lots of funny posts here, I am going to go serious again, so everybody who is already bored to this issue, just don`t read this.

I have said this many times before, but some people seem to mix facts & their opinions, specially with the Beatles. Fact is before Beatles became, popular music was going into really boring direction. Rock`n`Roll and Blues were really down at the moment. Beatles haters are saying that if Beatles wasnīt happened, there would have been some other. But thatīs impossible to know. There might been difficult to say artists of these days directly influenced by the Beatles, but if Beatles had never happened, itīs possible we would have then 2000`s versions of Pat Boone & Petula Clark at the moment. I donīt say theyīre absolutely horrible, but I really understand why teens of that time really got into Beatles.

But on the other hand Beatles were overrated by hardcore fans at sixties. Beatles become a cult and it was enough to hardcorefans to see Beatles moving and opening their mouths at the stage. Even Beatles themselves couldnīt hear each other (Ringo has said he played according how John & Paul moved, I think itīs amazing how good they played together in those concerts). This madness caused of course their split in 1970, itīs quite amazing they stayed together even that long. I really understand their decision to quit concerts and just make good music in the studio, but it was enormous risk in that time. Today bands donīt have to tour when there is internet with youtube & spotify, but that time tours were the ones the keep bands alive. But again I think all Beatles-fans are just glad they did what they did because that resulted "SGT" etc. Also, we can estimate, would Floyd and also other prog band have opportunity to use as much studiotime as they used without Beatles. EMI really wasnīt glad about those endless hours of making Sgt. But great thing was that Sgt sold that much (I think at least in the seventies Sgt was second best Beatles-album seller), so the recordcompanies also started to think it is useful to use lots of studiotime making better albums.
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 20:09
Of course I read the first post...but apparently ...if you don't have a sense of humor..it just ain't funny.

Wink
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36050
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 20:35
Mortte, really interesting post. Thanks. I was tryng to repnd before, but I got too windy again.

Doug, I just wasn't sure. I think I lost my sense of humour after a certain someone said "I could stand in the middle Of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters", but then later failed to demonstrate this by standing in the middle of Fifth Avenue, while slowly pulling out his piece, only to get run over by a taxi cab driven by an immigrant in the process.

Missed opportunity!
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Online
Points: 19545
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 23:30
Ok honestly

  1. One masterpiece.....Abbey Road.
  2. One great album.....Let it be
  3. Two good albums...Sgt Peppers and White.
  4. One decent album...Revolver
  5. Forgettable.............Everything before Revolcer
  6. Two aberrations......Magical Mystery Tour and Yellow Submarine 
            
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 04:35
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Ok honestly

  1. One masterpiece.....Abbey Road.
  2. One great album.....Let it be
  3. Two good albums...Sgt Peppers and White.
  4. One decent album...Revolver
  5. Forgettable.............Everything before Revolcer
  6. Two aberrations......Magical Mystery Tour and Yellow Submarine 
Revolver? Decent? Look at all the forgettable pop that was around in 1966! LOL
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 06:43
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Ok honestly

  1. One masterpiece.....Abbey Road.
  2. One great album.....Let it be
  3. Two good albums...Sgt Peppers and White.
  4. One decent album...Revolver
  5. Forgettable.............Everything before Revolcer
  6. Two aberrations......Magical Mystery Tour and Yellow Submarine 
Revolver? Decent? Look at all the forgettable pop that was around in 1966! LOL

IIRC, Engelbert's cover of Release Me knocked Penny Lane off no.1 on the charts in 1966.  Yeah, totally overhyped band that robbed other unbelievable artists of their time.  Anyhow, I wonder if you are acquainted with Ivan. 

Ivan:  Welcome back to PA.  

Wondering if micky will post here, that would really complete the picture.


Edited by rogerthat - March 26 2020 at 06:43
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 06:44
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Ok honestly

  1. One masterpiece.....Abbey Road.
  2. One great album.....Let it be
  3. Two good albums...Sgt Peppers and White.
  4. One decent album...Revolver
  5. Forgettable.............Everything before Revolcer
  6. Two aberrations......Magical Mystery Tour and Yellow Submarine 
Revolver? Decent? Look at all the forgettable pop that was around in 1966! LOL

IIRC, Engelbert's cover of Release Me knocked Penny Lane off no.1 on the charts in 1966.  Yeah, totally overhyped band that robbed other unbelievable artists of their time.  Anyhow, I wonder if you are acquainted with Ivan. 

Ivan:  Welcome back to PA.  

Wondering if micky will post here, that would really complete the picture.
LOL
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 18:52
Even the god of Prog ...Robert Fripp said he was influenced by the Beatles:

Robert Fripp once stated that King Crimson was his way of uniting the music of Hendrix, Bartok and The Beatles. Hearing A Day In The Life, an experience he later described as “incredibly powerful”, certainly opened the door to In The Court Of The Crimson King.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it....

Wink

One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
dr wu23 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 19:04
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_the_Beatles

"If it weren't for the Beatles, there wouldn't be anyone like us around." -Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin

"If it weren't for the Beatles, I wouldn't be a musician." -Dave Grohl, Nirvana/Foo Fighters

"Everyone was influenced someone. But everyone was influenced by the Beatles." -Alice Cooper

"Everyone thought the Beatles will just pass by. But to me, they had staying power." -Bob Dylan

"The Beatles are the reason I'm a musician." -Sting, The Police

"The Beatles' songs are in my genetic material." -Robin Williams


but....naaah...an overrated band.


Wink

One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36050
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 20:01
I of course agree and have all along that the Beatles were massively influential, I don't think that should be in dispute, the central question is, have The Beatles been given too much credit as innovators and originators?

Again, I think, like with most things, the Beatles are both overrated and underrated by individuals.

One can't discount the personal experience of many artists, and I would not dispute that the Beatles had a tremendous effect on many musicians and on music. A favourite album of mine is William Sheller's Lux Aeterna, the Beatles changed his life, and as he relayed it, while at music conservatory studying formal classical/ art music, his teachers were very disappointed.

Now I would have to see the context, but if you take this as a contained statement (no additional info or context needed): "Everyone was influenced someone. But everyone was influenced by the Beatles" (Alice Cooper), then he is overrating the Beatles. That is a claim that could not be substantiated, and in fact easily could be proven false. It comes across as hyperbole. That said, of course he didn't literally mean everyone,.

I have heard ludicrous claims made by people about the significance of the Beatles. Clearly some have underrated them and others have overrated them, it would amaze me if it could be otherwise as we are not omniscient, and often not rational nor intelligent creatures.

Edited by Logan - March 27 2020 at 20:02
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36050
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 20:45
Said it already, but while I voted yes, the Beatles do get too much credit, had I been asking if the Beatles get too little credit, then I also would have voted yes. This need not present a contradiction.
Back to Top
Mortte View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2020 at 23:57
I think Cooperīs statement is true when thinking sixties. Beatles were then everywhere and I think you couldnīt avoid their influence even if you had wanted. Ian Anderson has said he wasnīt influenced by the Beatles, although he liked them. I understand his point, he wanted to make Jethro unique, so he wanted to get influences to his band from much more rare artists. But I think he also couldnīt at least unconsciously avoid Beatles-influences. Beatles were masters of the sad melodies, these same kind of melodies I hear for example Jethro`s "Alive and Well & Living In", "Life`s a Long Song" & "Really Donīt Mind"-part in Thick as a Brick.
Back to Top
Mortte View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: November 11 2016
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 5538
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 00:23
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Ok honestly

  1. One masterpiece.....Abbey Road.
  2. One great album.....Let it be
  3. Two good albums...Sgt Peppers and White.
  4. One decent album...Revolver
  5. Forgettable.............Everything before Revolcer
  6. Two aberrations......Magical Mystery Tour and Yellow Submarine 
I donīt think Help & Rubber Soul are forgettable. Theyīre not as great in whole as Revolver and the other albums after that, but there are really great songs like Drive My Car, Norwegian Wood, Nowhere Man, In My Life, If I Needed Someone, Help!, You Got to Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, Itīs Only Love & of course Yesterday. Also those other early albums have great songs like Every Little Thing, a Hard Days Night, And I love Her, Iīll Be Back, All My Loving, Please Please Me & There is a Place.

At the moment my fav Beatles album is that compilation US version of Magical Mystery Tour, but of course it canīt be said official studio album, Revolver has stayed itīs place.
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Online
Points: 19545
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 02:04
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Revolver? Decent? Look at all the forgettable pop that was around in 1966! LOL

That's my opinion.

Honestly, even if there were no better albums, this doesn't make an album good, just a poor year for music.

But there were better albums for me, like Freak Out (Zappa), Roger The Engineer (Yardbirds), Pet Sounds (Beach Boys) and the underrated Psychedelic Lollipop (Blues Magoos).

But again, just my opinion.




Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - March 28 2020 at 02:05
            
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 02:14
Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Ok honestly

  1. One masterpiece.....Abbey Road.
  2. One great album.....Let it be
  3. Two good albums...Sgt Peppers and White.
  4. One decent album...Revolver
  5. Forgettable.............Everything before Revolcer
  6. Two aberrations......Magical Mystery Tour and Yellow Submarine 
I donīt think Help & Rubber Soul are forgettable. Theyīre not as great in whole as Revolver and the other albums after that, but there are really great songs like Drive My Car, Norwegian Wood, Nowhere Man, In My Life, If I Needed Someone, Help!, You Got to Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, Itīs Only Love & of course Yesterday. Also those other early albums have great songs like Every Little Thing, a Hard Days Night, And I love Her, Iīll Be Back, All My Loving, Please Please Me & There is a Place.

At the moment my fav Beatles album is that compilation US version of Magical Mystery Tour, but of course it canīt be said official studio album, Revolver has stayed itīs place.

The entirety of his ratings above are highly debatable, to say the least.  I know no Beatles fan who rates Let It Be above Sgt, White album or Revolver. Let It Be had potential but combined with the brass gloss of Phil Spector turned into a rather soporific affair.  
Back to Top
Mascodagama View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 02:50
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

"The Beatles are the reason I'm a musician." -Sting, The Police

Those b*****ds have a lot to answer for.

Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
Bandcamp Profile
Back to Top
Mascodagama View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 5111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mascodagama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 02:51
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Said it already, but while I voted yes, the Beatles do get too much credit, had I been asking if the Beatles get too little credit, then I also would have voted yes. This need not present a contradiction.
Yes - that is to say, no.
Soldato of the Pan Head Mafia. We'll make you an offer you can't listen to.
Bandcamp Profile
Back to Top
Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Online
Points: 19545
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 03:30
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

The entirety of his ratings above are highly debatable, to say the least.  I know no Beatles fan who rates Let It Be above Sgt, White album or Revolver. Let It Be had potential but combined with the brass gloss of Phil Spector turned into a rather soporific affair.  


Do you know there's something called personal taste?

Taste is not debatable.

BTW: I'm not a Beatles fan.

P.S. Spector saved Let it Be from oblivion, the work he did with Across the Universe is brilliant.
            
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2020 at 03:34
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

The entirety of his ratings above are highly debatable, to say the least.  I know no Beatles fan who rates Let It Be above Sgt, White album or Revolver. Let It Be had potential but combined with the brass gloss of Phil Spector turned into a rather soporific affair.  


Do you know there's something called personal taste?

Taste is not debatable.

BTW: I'm not a Beatles fan.

P.S. Spector saved Let it Be from oblivion, the work he did with Across the Universe is brilliant.

Your taste doesn't determine whether an album is great or good or average.  Your taste only tells you whether you like an album or not.  But let's leave that aside, what your taste doesn't decide is whether a band gets too much credit.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1920212223 28>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.232 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.