Joined: December 01 2010
Location: London, England
Status: Offline
Points: 195
Posted: September 05 2011 at 02:00
NickHall wrote:
I get fed up with people having a go at Emerson because he's the best. OK, Billy Ritchie was pretty good, but just because he was the first guy to do it, don't make him the best. Let's face it, he was boring next to Emerson.
I personally like both in their own ways. I don't think it's helpful or even fair to say Ritchie is boring because you prefer Emerson.
The Nice were in my opinion the first full Symphonic band, but we are no longer in 1968, what was innovative on that year, sounds dated today, specially with bands that haven't aged well as The Nice.
When I make a review of their albums, I try to use a late 60's perspective.
Iván
Yep, I agree that context is important, but when I review an album I use a late 40's perspective.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
Posted: August 22 2011 at 13:33
The Nice were in my opinion the first full Symphonic band, but we are no longer in 1968, what was innovative on that year, sounds dated today, specially with bands that haven't aged well as The Nice.
When I make a review of their albums, I try to use a late 60's perspective.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 26241
Posted: August 22 2011 at 12:47
KingCrInuYasha wrote:
Cactus Choir wrote:
I remember an interview with Queen's producer Roy
Thomas Baker where he said Brian May was a huge fan of Davy O'List's
guitar playing and would often be down the Marquee watching The Nice.
Baker produced an album by O'List's post-Nice band Jet - totally unlike
The Nice, sort of Glam rock with flashy guitar playing and almost a new
wave feel.
Never noticed that. That solo he does on "Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon" does sound like a bit like O'List's style of playing.
ExittheLemming wrote:
O'List handles the lead vocals on the title track (and single) from The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack album (and you can hear what a great singer he was but was reputedly so shy about singing live he steadfastly declined - shame really, as it would have applied a band-aid to their Achiles heel: the vocals on the song based material)
Personally, Lee Jackson wasn't a bad vocalist, however I admit the guy could be hit or miss. Compare say, the Live version of "Ars Longa Vita Brevis" during the show at Fairfield Hall (Sept. 29, 1968) to the studio version. The former has him delivering a larger than life performance, as if he was in some sort of swashbuckler flick. The energy on the studio version, on the other hand, is just gone.
BTW, O'List does some good singing on the original version of "Azrael" and the chorus of "Tantalising Maggie"
The studio version of Ars Longa Vita Brevis is totally useless compared to some of the bootleg live versions I've heard.
Jackson was a very good singer imo but his voice didnt really suit prog. I think they kept doing the Bob Dylan adaptions just to give him something he was good at singing. This is a good example
From the Peace-Pop-World-Concert on 30th March 1970 at the Berliner Sportpalast ....Berlin, Germany......Christ I thought Blackmore would have sat in on "Rondo" but apparently not. This is strange
Back in 2004 I ran across a website (unknown to me now), where someone was selling a live recording of the Nice with Ritchie Blackmore on guitar. I guess you had to submit a fee and the person would transfer it to cd and mail it to your address. Apparently Ritchie Blackmore sat in for one night. I remember researching it and finding the information about that particular gig. I am going to do a search on it now.
Joined: September 26 2010
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1281
Posted: August 21 2011 at 23:08
Cactus Choir wrote:
I remember an interview with Queen's producer Roy
Thomas Baker where he said Brian May was a huge fan of Davy O'List's
guitar playing and would often be down the Marquee watching The Nice.
Baker produced an album by O'List's post-Nice band Jet - totally unlike
The Nice, sort of Glam rock with flashy guitar playing and almost a new
wave feel.
Never noticed that. That solo he does on "Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon" does sound like a bit like O'List's style of playing.
ExittheLemming wrote:
O'List handles the lead vocals on the title track (and single) from The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack album (and you can hear what a great singer he was but was reputedly so shy about singing live he steadfastly declined - shame really, as it would have applied a band-aid to their Achiles heel: the vocals on the song based material)
Personally, Lee Jackson wasn't a bad vocalist, however I admit the guy could be hit or miss. Compare say, the Live version of "Ars Longa Vita Brevis" during the show at Fairfield Hall (Sept. 29, 1968) to the studio version. The former has him delivering a larger than life performance, as if he was in some sort of swashbuckler flick. The energy on the studio version, on the other hand, is just gone.
BTW, O'List does some good singing on the original version of "Azrael" and the chorus of "Tantalising Maggie"
He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball!
Joined: August 08 2010
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 254
Posted: August 21 2011 at 00:11
NickHall wrote:
I get fed up with people having a go at Emerson because he's the best. OK, Billy Ritchie was pretty good, but just because he was the first guy to do it, don't make him the best. Let's face it, he was boring next to Emerson.
So he should have jumped around a bit more? Would that have made the music better? Personally, I like both of them, I don't see a need for comparison.
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1035
Posted: August 19 2011 at 10:47
I remember an interview with Queen's producer Roy Thomas Baker where he said Brian May was a huge fan of Davy O'List's guitar playing and would often be down the Marquee watching The Nice. Baker produced an album by O'List's post-Nice band Jet - totally unlike The Nice, sort of Glam rock with flashy guitar playing and almost a new wave feel.
"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
Joined: August 15 2011
Location: Chingford
Status: Offline
Points: 144
Posted: August 18 2011 at 16:14
I get fed up with people having a go at Emerson because he's the best. OK, Billy Ritchie was pretty good, but just because he was the first guy to do it, don't make him the best. Let's face it, he was boring next to Emerson.
Joined: March 18 2011
Location: Hertford
Status: Offline
Points: 466
Posted: August 18 2011 at 05:24
I agree about the playing approach. I think Ritchie’s contribution was to show that organ could be a leading instrument, even to the exclusion of guitars. Also, standing not sitting was significant, as simple as that seems to us today. There’s certainly no direct evidence that Emerson was influenced by any of this, though he was apparently in the audience many times when 1-2-3 played there. It must be also possible that it was all a natural progression. But Ritchie was certainly first to take a leading role.
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 1035
Posted: August 18 2011 at 05:03
NickHall wrote:
I don't think Emerson copied Ritchie, they were two completely different kinds of players. As far as I can see, the only thing Emerson used from Ritchie was the standing up/leading role sort of thing, nothing to do with the playing at all.
Yes, I think Emerson's approach was much more similar to Don Shinn - jazzy phrasings, rocked up classics, reverb crashing/mucking about with the electronics etc. And Emerson has acknowledged Shinn as a big influence, so if he was heavily influenced by Ritchie I would have thought he'd mention that too.
"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
Joined: August 15 2011
Location: Chingford
Status: Offline
Points: 144
Posted: August 18 2011 at 04:06
I don't think Emerson copied Ritchie, they were two completely different kinds of players. As far as I can see, the only thing Emerson used from Ritchie was the standing up/leading role sort of thing, nothing to do with the playing at all.
Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
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Points: 841
Posted: August 17 2011 at 14:36
ExittheLemming wrote:
iluvmarillion wrote:
richardh wrote:
giselle wrote:
The concept of The Nice - a Rock organ trio - came from 1-2-3 (later Clouds). O'List was sacrificied for this concept.
O'List was actually kicked out the group for similar reasons that Pink Floyd left Syd Barrett behind. I spoke to Davy about 6 years ago and he didn't have a bad word to say for Keith and I think was glad that he was given his 'wake up call'. Keith Emerson did toy with the idea of bringing Steve Howe into the band and they spent a day hanging out but in the end Howe decided he wanted to stay with the band he was in at the time (this was a good few years before Yes).
Didn't O'List play with Pink Floyd on a few early gigs before Gilmour stepped in? I really enjoyed his guitar work on Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack.
Yep, O'List was often asked to substitute on guitar for an AWOL Barrett (he knew Floyd's material note for note in those days) O'List handles the lead vocals on the title track (and single) from The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack album (and you can hear what a great singer he was but was reputedly so shy about singing live he steadfastly declined - shame really, as it would have applied a band-aid to their Achiles heel: the vocals on the song based material)
O'List only stepped in for Syd once. It was on the package tour with Jimi Hendrix and The Nice.
Joined: May 28 2011
Location: NH
Status: Offline
Points: 344
Posted: August 17 2011 at 02:42
(oh no, someone with the same user icon as me!)
Yeah, I can't say I've been able to get into ELP that much, although they have some moments that I like. I picked up Elegy just last week just because it was cheap enough. I though side A of the tape was actually quite nice and I felt it deserved a bit better, but then again, I think reviewers mentioned it having many different versions of the older songs.
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 26241
Posted: August 17 2011 at 01:55
brainstormer wrote:
I've always liked The Nice. I like their pop songs, some of which, like Cry of Eugene, are quite brilliant. Emerson often seems to want a bawdy lyric, which you can even see in his solo band's studio album, which makes some of the Nice's pop songs lyrics a little seedy, but the music is still often good writing. It's too bad O'List disbanded from them as he wasn't a bad guitarist. Wasn't he the lead singer in the beginning?
I suspect Lee Jackson was likely responsible for the bawdy lyrics.Apparently Jackson was quite successfull with the 'ladies' in those days
The concept of The Nice - a Rock organ trio - came from 1-2-3 (later Clouds). O'List was sacrificied for this concept.
O'List was actually kicked out the group for similar reasons that Pink Floyd left Syd Barrett behind. I spoke to Davy about 6 years ago and he didn't have a bad word to say for Keith and I think was glad that he was given his 'wake up call'. Keith Emerson did toy with the idea of bringing Steve Howe into the band and they spent a day hanging out but in the end Howe decided he wanted to stay with the band he was in at the time (this was a good few years before Yes).
Didn't O'List play with Pink Floyd on a few early gigs before Gilmour stepped in? I really enjoyed his guitar work on Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack.
Yep, O'List was often asked to substitute on guitar for an AWOL Barrett (he knew Floyd's material note for note in those days) O'List handles the lead vocals on the title track (and single) from The Thoughts of Emerlist Davjack album (and you can hear what a great singer he was but was reputedly so shy about singing live he steadfastly declined - shame really, as it would have applied a band-aid to their Achiles heel: the vocals on the song based material)
Joined: January 20 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 887
Posted: August 16 2011 at 19:42
I've always liked The Nice. I like their pop songs, some of which, like Cry of Eugene, are quite brilliant. Emerson often seems to want a bawdy lyric, which you can even see in his solo band's studio album, which makes some of the Nice's pop songs lyrics a little seedy, but the music is still often good writing. It's too bad O'List disbanded from them as he wasn't a bad guitarist. Wasn't he the lead singer in the beginning?
-- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net
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