Mind & Muse: The Ego and Creating Prog Music

How do you think David Gilmour felt when he was dismissed, along with Nick Mason, By Roger Waters after the completion of Pink Floyd's The Final Cut? After years of recording Floyd's most brilliant guitar solos and lead vocals on so many Floyd songs, Waters just turned his back on him, forever. And what of Waters'? The great conceptual and lyrical side of Floyd? Did his ego cloud his judgement?When Peter Gabriel informed the other members of Genesis that he was leaving because he felt that he was "out growing' them, do you think that the rest of the group rallied together to produce an album that was just as good or better than previous albums with Gabriel? Was ego in the form of pride involved? Or was it just business as usual for the group?

On a lighter note I'll convey a well know American recording studio story about an assistent engineer named Ron Saint Germain that was given the unenviable task of editing a Hendrix/Band of Gypsys studio jam into a posthumous album track for the ill fated 1975 album Crash Landing. An excellent editing and "punch in" engineer, Saint Germain spent countless hours editing and tidying up Buddy Miles sloppy drum solo. As he was playing the track back over the studio monitors, Miles happened to walk in to the studio at the time and hearing his great "solo", smiled broadly at Saint Germain and said "Ain't I a mother______!" Saint Germain didn't have the heart to tell Miles how much work went into tightening up his sloppy solo and Miles walked out a happy man. (see Hendrix: Setting The Record Straight by John McDermott with Eddie Kramer. Pub.1992).

Ego.

But what exactly is the relationship between an artist's ego and the creation of his or her music? Is there or can there ever be a balance between the two? What do think about this special relationship?

Or have you never thought about it at all?











Edited by SteveG - September 19 2014 at 14:32

I think they all of course have egos, they are artists....They must have an ego of some magnitude. Where those egos cause problems or not is in how the band handle them.

@Catcher10: Yes I deffinately got the same impression about Portnoy but didn't want to ruffle feathers. I never considered his view as fleeting and that's incredibly possible for someone like him. He's such an over achiever, luckily for us, that he might have briefly lost focus before he was able to gather it back together. Funny, DT just is not the same for me without him.





Edited by SteveG - September 19 2014 at 14:41

TODDLER wrote: I can honestly say that if I write a Chamber Rock piece clocking in at 15 or 17 minutes, I am not always open to suggestions from musicians who want to change the form or structure of it. If they present an idea or 2 that can reflect in a positive way..what I have written..then so be it. But that's not exactly turning my back on their efforts. If the project consists of team work, I usually shut up and listen to instructions. Sometimes critics and musicians confuse the process of a specific writer who has the music planned out and refuses to change it with a different musician/writer who becomes insulted over it and bingo! He/She ends up being  the one with the overblown ego. Many musicians who have music pre-planned in it's entirety prior to recording it are serious about producing an idea. That shouldn't be confused with having an ego simply because another musician in the band (who apparently does not understand this composer's approach) , wants to change the music...and justify's the notion by accusing the composer of having a inflated ego. Street musicians often say..."If it's my baby then leave it alone"  It's simply a matter of observing the situation  before printing your own version of it in a magazine...which is my advice to rock journalists. I don't know for sure if Genesis were on a mission to compete with Gabriel. Remember that Tony Banks was a fine writer anyway and perhaps it just appears that they may have been on a ego trip. Roger Waters stated in the past that if he had allowed Gilmour to change or re-arrange his work for Wish You Were Here, that the album would differ in musical style and possibly not be as appealing to the thousands of Floyd fans who know the songs and appreciate the end product. Of course the album would have sounded much different, but it's too late now and it would be like changing the composition on Sgt. Pepper 40 years later. The fans love what Waters contributed on W.Y.W.H. and any "what if' ..is not considered because so much time has exceeded. If fans were able to hear the album today with all the sections Gilmour had suggested over Waters ideas, they might dislike it. Or any Floyd album for that matter where Gilmour's ideas were taken over by Waters'.  On another note...if Gilmour had been allowed to inject all his sincere ideas between 75' to 82' ...would anyone truly know the difference? It's catch 22 or just a big mystery with a lot of what if's. At any rate, The ego's clashed in that particular case.  When Fripp wrote the piece RED, Bruford didn't understand what to do with the piece and was not giving Fripp the musical balance he desired at that time. Even though the recording is appealing to members on P.A., Fripp truly didn't accomplish what he desired in the drum department until he recorded "Breathless". It's difficult to understand just how Fripp wanted RED to sound and evidently he settled for what we all hear on record, although he was personally disappointed in it.

Edited by Guldbamsen - September 19 2014 at 10:44

Some of it may be ego, but it is often a matter of different perspective, We (the listeners) would want another Beatles album, we don’t care about Lennons love life, That Gabriel had problems with his marriage, or if there was disagreements between David and Waters, making it impossible to continue with Floyd.
I don’t think it is about huge ego, it just looks different for the outside, where we don’t get the full story.
And I can easily imagine how hard it would be, to still create music with people (friends) I have worked with for decades.

1. "Medieval Overture" (Corea) – 5:14
2. "Sorceress" (White) – 7:34
3. "The Romantic Warrior" (Corea) – 10:52
4. "Majestic Dance" (Di Meola) – 5:01
5. "The Magician" (Clarke) – 5:29
6. "Duel of the Jester and the Tyrant" (Part I & Part II) (Corea) – 11:2       The gestalt of egos coming together to create a classic of the genre.

All big rock musicians have an ego. It's un avoidable. It's not always a bad thing, but can lead to rash decisions on their part. The more disconnected from reality someone becomes for whatever reason, the more likely they are to errors of judgement.

In the case of PG and Genesis, I don't think either necessarily thought they were better than the other, they were just naturally moving in different directions. The band wanted the focus of attention to be on the music, and PG appeared to be more focussed on theatrical presentation. A basic differing of opinions. He probably left at the right time. He enjoyed a very successful solo career and the band went on to make some of their best albums imo. In te case of Floyd, I don't think Waters ego can even be measured. Floyd was always a hotbed of infighting and politics, which is a shame because the combo of the music and Waters lyrics and vision was an amazing and highly successful combination.

Perhaps not so obvious Doc, as I've seen no responses that state that a temperamental artist is usually endured because of their unique genius, talent or vision. To me personally, the ends have usually justify the means.

SteveG wrote: Perhaps not so obvious Doc, as I've seen no responses that state that a temperamental artist is usually endured because of their unique genius, talent or vision. To me personally, the ends have usually justify the means.