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SteveG View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 29 2018 at 04:17
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

We disagree but that's ok. I really truly love San Tropez and think its perfect in its relaxed and jazzy, west coast kind of way. One thing is for certain: It would be more of a dead serious and less loose and playful album without the largely-unpopular-on-PA end of side 1 - and I personally prefer the further out and unpredictable Floyd of 67-72 than their "classic rock era" 73... 

I get that.  I love both the Floyds though I do prefer the classic rock version. That said, it's ultimately an aesthetic preference rather than the lyrical context.  The aesthetic they create on Pillow of Windows and Echoes is so beautiful that I don't want it to be disturbed.  To me, even Fearless feels kind of meh after Pillow and Echoes wash over me. But yeah, at this stage, they were still experimenting and finding their sound and Waters kind of agrees with you when he says Dark Side was basically the end of the band because they had achieved everything they had set out for with that album.
I think, for me at least, it comes down to the artist's intentions. Zappa was trying to make social statements so that even if his "humorous songs" strike out, I can tolerate them. It's the blatant filler songs by artists that I find hard to take but there is division over what songs are filler or not. Some ELP fans will claim that Benny The Bouncer is a bonifide "high quality" song while I hold that it's a place setter on a side of vinyl, so this opens up another can of worms I'm afraid. 
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Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

TBH, if I find Echoes and Days perfect, I find half of the A-side weak... love the first part, but let's face it the end of Fearless (with the football chants) and Tropez and Seamus are simply of no interest >> it's kind of a throwback to the airy-fairyness of the Syd Barrett days.
 
I'd haver much preferred Axe, Embryo and/or a longer version of Cymbalene (even bumping-off Pillow wouldn't hurt me), then that would've made it a top two Floyd album.  
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Let's be real. Aside from what came from Zappa, most humorous prog songs are just album filler.

 
Are you Ready, Eddie???? QuestionWink 


I actually do like "Are you Ready, Eddie", and don't really see what everybody's got against it. I do find it amusing to have a rock n' roll song without guitars at all. However, about Frank Zappa, what I have heard from his humorous stuff is one of the main things that won't let me get into his music. For me, if something is inteded to be humorous or funny, I expect it to make me laugh... and absolutley no humorous song makes me laugh, they usually just ruin the albums...


I also like ARRE, but it's out of place (as is IMHO, Jeremy Bender, but I'm definitely not a fan of Emo's ragtime piano pieces, anyways) ) on Tarkus, just like Seamus and ST (the latter which I find fun) are in Meddle... They kind of ruin the whole album effect and make it difficult for repeated listen

As for Zappa's humour, I'm defintely not a fan of  pre-Hot Rats FZ&MOI  stuff, even though it is his late-70's scatological smut that did get me acquaited of his world.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

We disagree but that's ok. I really truly love San Tropez and think its perfect in its relaxed and jazzy, west coast kind of way. One thing is for certain: It would be more of a dead serious and less loose and playful album without the largely-unpopular-on-PA end of side 1 - and I personally prefer the further out and unpredictable Floyd of 67-72 than their "classic rock era" 73... 

I get that.  I love both the Floyds though I do prefer the classic rock version. That said, it's ultimately an aesthetic preference rather than the lyrical context.  The aesthetic they create on Pillow of Windows and Echoes is so beautiful that I don't want it to be disturbed.  To me, even Fearless feels kind of meh after Pillow and Echoes wash over me. But yeah, at this stage, they were still experimenting and finding their sound and Waters kind of agrees with you when he says Dark Side was basically the end of the band because they had achieved everything they had set out for with that album.
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^^ Ok but as Saperlipopette put it, laugh out loud humour is only one type of humour.  There's wit for instance which is not so obvious.  I think you have to generally read the lyrics to get humour in music.  From what I remember, Zappa's lyrics can be very funny alright.
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

TBH, if I find Echoes and Days perfect, I find half of the A-side weak... love the first part, but let's face it the end of Fearless (with the football chants) and Tropez and Seamus are simply of no interest >> it's kind of a throwback to the airy-fairyness of the Syd Barrett days.
 
I'd haver much preferred Axe, Embryo and/or a longer version of Cymbalene (even bumping-off Pillow wouldn't hurt me), then that would've made it a top two Floyd album.  
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Let's be real. Aside from what came from Zappa, most humorous prog songs are just album filler.

 
Are you Ready, Eddie???? QuestionWink 


I actually do like "Are you Ready, Eddie", and don't really see what everybody's got against it. I do find it amusing to have a rock n' roll song without guitars at all. However, about Frank Zappa, what I have heard from his humorous stuff is one of the main things that won't let me get into his music. For me, if something is inteded to be humorous or funny, I expect it to make me laugh... and absolutley no humorous song makes me laugh, they usually just ruin the albums...
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I LOVE humour in music. I love Sparks, Steely Dan, Oingo Boingo, Jane's Addiction among others. Compared to those, Seamus is well just a joke that's not very interesting beyond its novelty value. More power to those who can't stop laughing after it but yeah it doesn't do any of that for me. Nothing about prog having to be dead serious or anything.
 No one's actually laughing I think. Its not funny in a laugh out loud-way. I like dogs and can relate to Seamus the blues-howler. To me its just a lighthearted little ditty that with its 2.15 never overstays its welcome. 

Oh, I don't mind it either.  I just don't find it memorable in any way, at least not after I got over the idea of a dog singing. It's not like Meddle would have been any less of an album without either Seamus or San Tropez.
We disagree but that's ok. I really truly love San Tropez and think its perfect in its relaxed and jazzy, west coast kind of way. One thing is for certain: It would be more of a dead serious and less loose and playful album without the largely-unpopular-on-PA end of side 1 - and I personally prefer the further out and unpredictable Floyd of 67-72 than their "classic rock era" 73... 
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I'm not a big fan of 'humor' in prog unless it's clever like Hatfield's sly lyrics.

;)
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Let's be real. Aside from what came from Zappa, most humorous prog songs are just album filler.
 
Are you Ready, Eddie???? QuestionWink 
I'm not sure if someone with all of your names should talk Mr. Sean Chantraine Hughes Train. Tongue
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I LOVE humour in music. I love Sparks, Steely Dan, Oingo Boingo, Jane's Addiction among others. Compared to those, Seamus is well just a joke that's not very interesting beyond its novelty value. More power to those who can't stop laughing after it but yeah it doesn't do any of that for me. Nothing about prog having to be dead serious or anything.
 No one's actually laughing I think. Its not funny in a laugh out loud-way. I like dogs and can relate to Seamus the blues-howler. To me its just a lighthearted little ditty that with its 2.15 never overstays its welcome. 

Oh, I don't mind it either.  I just don't find it memorable in any way, at least not after I got over the idea of a dog singing. It's not like Meddle would have been any less of an album without either Seamus or San Tropez.
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TBH, if I find Echoes and Days perfect, I find half of the A-side weak... love the first part, but let's face it the end of Fearless (with the football chants) and Tropez and Seamus are simply of no interest >> it's kind of a throwback to the airy-fairyness of the Syd Barrett days.
 
I'd haver much preferred Axe, Embryo and/or a longer version of Cymbalene (even bumping-off Pillow wouldn't hurt me), then that would've made it a top two Floyd album.  
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Let's be real. Aside from what came from Zappa, most humorous prog songs are just album filler.
 
Are you Ready, Eddie???? QuestionWink 
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I think the only thing that devalues the first side is having their best song on the second. Other than that I find it very enjoyable.
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I LOVE humour in music. I love Sparks, Steely Dan, Oingo Boingo, Jane's Addiction among others. Compared to those, Seamus is well just a joke that's not very interesting beyond its novelty value. More power to those who can't stop laughing after it but yeah it doesn't do any of that for me. Nothing about prog having to be dead serious or anything.
 No one's actually laughing I think. Its not funny in a laugh out loud-way. I like dogs and can relate to Seamus the blues-howler. To me its just a lighthearted little ditty that with its 2.15 never overstays its welcome. 
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Let's be real. Aside from what came from Zappa, most humorous prog songs are just album filler.
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I don't mind comedy in Prog. San Tropez is enjoyable, but Seamus just isn't.
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I LOVE humour in music. I love Sparks, Steely Dan, Oingo Boingo, Jane's Addiction among others. Compared to those, Seamus is well just a joke that's not very interesting beyond its novelty value. More power to those who can't stop laughing after it but yeah it doesn't do any of that for me. Nothing about prog having to be dead serious or anything.
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I have no idea why some people seem to think humor has to be banned from prog. "This won't do! 'Tis the noble art of prog rock and thus has to be darned serious all the time. Humor drags music down"!

I don't see it that way; songs like "Seamus" or "Jeremy Bender" are in my opinion absolutely enjoyable.

I'm fine with humor but music is for the ears, so if a humorous song sounds so that I don't like to listen to it, I'll get my laughs somewhere else.
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Not a big fan of Seamus(I at least hope the dog was paid in dog biscuits for his/her contribution) but I like the rest of it especially Echoes. 
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Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

I have no idea why some people seem to think humor has to be banned from prog. "This won't do! 'Tis the noble art of prog rock and thus has to be darned serious all the time. Humor drags music down"!

I don't see it that way; songs like "Seamus" or "Jeremy Bender" are in my opinion absolutely enjoyable.


The ELP songs seem to impede the flow of the albums. I don't dislike them as much as others and certainly don't feel that the humor is the reason they are not my favorites. Seamus and San Tropez on the other are integral parts of Meddle. I'm not a big Floyd fan anyway, in part because they just lack character to me. So songs like that I find really enjoyable in the PF context.

And Meddle is the only Floyd I ever listen to on purpose.

Edited by Tapfret - October 24 2018 at 11:20

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A fundamentally good album.
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Originally posted by brainstormer brainstormer wrote:

Meddle and Obscured by Clouds are my favorite Floyd, however I also love a lot of the Barrett songs like See Saw, See Emily Play, and Remember a Day.  Those three songs pretty much beat anything on Meddle and Obscured.  They're absolutely magic. 

actually Remember a Day is a Wright song Big smile
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