Yngwie J. Malmsteen’s Concerto

Wizard/TRueStar wrote: Cocerto is OK. Rising Force is by far the best thing he ever did IMHO. Probably because its his first and it is a culmination of his lifes (Up to that point) work. Agreed. Im not reading all these posts but no one is mentioning Jason Becker. With this guy you can kiss satriani goodbye (Except for his first 3 or 4 albums) and Marty Friedman (i hate him don't make me start on this guy) You know that they played together in Cacophony, don't you? BTW: His album "Music for Speeding" is KILLER. Steve Vai Is excellent and contrary to popular opinion he is very prog within his guitar playing and the rest is zappaesc for obvious reasons  That's exactly the right way to put it. oh by the way i went to see malmsteen and he walked through the crowd and this guy ask if he wanted a donut  (yngwie got fat, he has Greg Lake Cheeks) These are not only from doughnuts (if you catch my message in a bottle).

Blacksword wrote: There's no doubting the mans musical prowess.. But, for me Malmsteen always seemed to create really hateful music. Dreadful, cheesy, over the top rubbish. When a friend of mine was learning the guitar, he got Malmsteens 'Rising Force' album, 'Marching out' as well as Malmsteens 'Trilogy' Both had me rolling around the floor in the hysterics. My friend was trying to point out how technically brilliant it was. I pointed out, that despite being technically brilliant, it still sounded like comedy rock, so therefore the artists obvious talent had gone to waste IMO. Playing 300 notes a second and basing everything you do on classical music may be very clever, but it does little to entertain me, as I hear it as showing off and nothing more. Frankly I'd rather listen to Dave Brock of Hawkwind tuning up.

Well, I have to say that I rate Marching Out an impressive effort, also thanks to Jeff Scott Soto's excellent vocals!
Other good albums by Yngwie are Fire & Ice and The Seventh Sign. I admit, however, that most of his production is mere technical pyrotechnics...with no added value in terms of composition.

Svein-Frode wrote: Besides being a parody of himself he has managed to drag Jens and Anders Johanssen into the mud with him. Two very gifted musicians gone to waste in heavy metal hell. There is hope though, and their talent shines through in Jens Johannson's solo records where he is joind by his brother Anders, Shawn Lane and Alan Holdsworth to mention a few.

 

See an earlier thread on Jonas Hellborg. There is a quote in one Hellborg biog on the web, that states Hellborg thought the Johansson brothers were too good for Malmsteen and rescued them in the late 80's!!!!! Both Jens and Anders recordings with Hellborg (at least 7 for Jens, a couple less for Anders) are outstanding, and demonstrate to me what the guys were able to do under a considerable more musically eclectic, Swedish mentor in the form of Hellborg. Only wish both would do more solo work and Jens is utterly wasted in Stratovarious.

 

Oh BTW I have the Malmsteen concerto, dull, dull, dull - anybody's for 8 quid plus p&p (played once, one careful owner)!

Yngwie Malmsteen is guitar God!!! He invented the neoclassical style. He doesn't play progressive music but he is simply amazing. The "Concerto" is a very good album.

I'll just have to conclude that some people will always try to be judge over what is passionate and what is feeling. To me those terms are just too subjective, and unworthy of discussion.

I coudn't give a rats ass about Malmsteen, but would still argue that shredding has it's place in the musical palette, just like a random color in a painters palette. Artistic vision isn't complete unless you master and understand the tools of the trade.

Yes, there is much more to music than technical skill, but I rarely get caught up in all that emotional mubo jumbo. I think there are objective criterias which can be used to evaluate music to a large degree, but also realise, that some music will always have that little unexplainable extra, usually connected to an emotional epxerience. Some music will always be classic conditioned Pavlov style, the difficult part is knowing when and how.

From people I've heard talking in the past, there seem to be three schools of thought on guitar players.

• those who think that anybody who can play fast must be good
• those who think that anybody who can play fast must be unemotional
• those who listen to the music being played

I am well aware of the playing of Yo-Yo Ma, John McLoughlin, Chick Corea, and countless other classical, jazz and rock musicians of all stripes having an extremely braod taste in music that ranges for jazz to classical to rock to pop to electronica and all points in between.

Also while I have not studied music theory, I am a musician, playing guitar, bass, keyboards and mandolin and feel I am well qualified to offer my opinion on what is and what is not valuable playing. Yo-Yo Ma is a very very fine cellist, capable of expressing himself eloquently on his instruments, but to me his is a skill borne not of musical theory but of understanding, maturity, and depth.

That sensibility and sensitivity is I believe the crucial difference between players of the ilk of Mr Malmsteen and good musicians. That is what I was trying to get across.

Technical ability is fine. I appreciate clever playing as much as anyone but when, as I think is the case with the vast majority of shredders, that techniques is not filtered through personality, sensitivity, experience and emotion, then all that is left IS technique. There is nothing in what I hear of them that offers me anything other than technique. To me it is soulless and empty plank-spanking one-upmanship.

They are certainly very well schooled players, but they are not, in my opinion, true musicians.

And if I seemed to suggest that classical and rock should not be fused then you misunderstood or I didn't express myself well enough. I meant that the pursuit of that element of classical playing - the triumph of the technical - above the pursuit of something affecting should be left out of rock music. Indeed of all music.

It is about communicating passion and feeling.

And to suggest I don't enjoy music on an intellectual level is, frankly, insulting. It's intellectual worth is indelibly linked to its emotional resonance as far as I'm concerned. Mere skill is not enough. It's like the ice hotel, I can appreciate it's design but I wouldn't want to live with it.

In terms of how music affects people, I'd refer you to a thread elsewhere on people's favourite moments in prog. There's a lot more of the effectively simple moment than the overarching egotistical display in people's choices.

And as for your references to aggression, rage, confusion and chilly. Aggression? have a listen to Heroin by the Velvet Underground it's pretty simple yet pretty expressive to me. Rage? The Sex Pistols Pretty Vacant wil do that in three chords. Chilly? Try Arvo Part's Fratres - which is one of the simplest pieces of music I've ever heard. And as for Confusion? Well, It's an ELO song isn't it?

Again, I'll stick with what I've said before, I'd prefer to listen to 8 bars of Gilmour than 25 years of Malmsteen, vai etc. In fact, I'd prefer listening to 8 bars of Yo-Yo Ma or Stephen Isserlis or Jacqueline Du Pre or Philip Glass or anyone for that matter.

Playing for the sake of playing is an empty exercise.

 

Svein-Frode wrote:

"No doubt excellent music can be written and performed by people with limited instrument handeling skills, but why limit onself as a player, perfomer and composer? Although all the names you mentioned have very positive sides as musicians and composers they also lack in certain areas, and their fear of losing control probably kept them from hiring in musicians more capabale than themselves to perform certain parts. Latimer isn't a great soloist, but he had keyboardplayers from heaven to support him, so in the end he did fairly well :). If only a few rockers could climb down from their high horse and do like classical composers - hire in the best people to perform their visionary music, instead of trying to do everything themselves, and usually end up with something below their potential. Composing music and performing music is two very different artforms, and only a very few can handle both with grace."

This is exactly the sort of argument that led to the utterly vapid, soulless sort of music that these appalling shredders make. It roughly translates as 'yeah those little songs are okay but wouldn't it be better if you played it at twice the speed and with four thousand interval notes between here and there'

The argument that composers should compose and musicians should play is laughable. It may be true for classical music, but we're talking about pop music here, the two are not even on the same continent, never mind the same room.

I will take Jimmy Page's 'tight but loose' over Malmsteen's 'tight-arsed' any day. Music is about expression and feel not pyrotechnical displays of technique. I don't think Eric Clapton could shred anything (except maybe a line or two during his wilder days) but I would regard him as an infinitely more accomplished, educated and sensitive musician than the frankly laughable Malmsteen or the cold Satriani or the positively arctic Vai.

To paraphrase a quote from Cameron Crowe's Almost Famous script: 'It's what you leave out that's important. not what you put in.'

Music is about expressing emotion not about showing off. There is more emotion in 8 bars of David Gilmour's soloing than any of these po-faced metallers' 25 odd years of empty, soulless showboating.

as I said elsewhere on the forum - progressive metal = the grandiose mingling with the otiose.

Terje is a masterful composer indeed, though his guitar playing style might be a bit overwhelming after a while. For a good introduction to Terje Rypdal try out "If mountains could sing". It's got rock, jazz and classical in one nice progressive mix. The production is top notch, so is the musicians, but what else does one expect from ECM records?

And by the way, this summer he did an outddor concerto for guitar, two fighter jets and a lighthouse foghorn !!! It didn's sound as crazy as it might sound :D

Edited by Svein-Frode