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mogol View Drop Down
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Points: 42 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Revolutionise the site
    Posted: June 09 2015 at 04:09
I've found this thread only now. It's been 2 years. Has any decision been taken? 
I personally would love to see album tagging by users here - with not only prog-related tags, but also with usual music genres as blues, jazz, classical, etc. It would great if instead the subgenre the site shows several most frequently assigned tags (maybe with percentage). In such case the whole RPI (as well as any other genre) argument would be senseless - users and time will decide if there really is such a subgenre. 
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Points: 2779 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2013 at 18:43
Just use multiple tags for artists, like RateYourMusic does. Then all you need are:

Symphonic
Canterbury
Avant (Zeuhl as subgenre)
Psych/Space
Krautrock
Neo
Art Rock / Crossover (Heavy Prog as subgenre)
Fusion
Progressive Folk
Progressive Electronic
Proto / Related

Eclectic becomes obsolete due to multiple genre tagging. Raga is not substantial enough. Imo prog metal is a type of metal, not a type of prog (whereas prog "rock" is far more removed from rock than "prog" metal is from metal). Post rock is not prog.
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Points: 417 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2013 at 11:57
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

What about having a "site tag" for the band (assigned by the Collabs as-is) and a "reviewers tag" for each album. Each time a review is posted the reviewer is asked to assign the sub-genre he thinks best fits the album. The system would display for each album the tag which has most votes (optional to have different weight for Collabs and non-Collabs, same as with the stars).
This would provide a dynamic album tagging, gradually and without adding work to the Collabs.
I would suggest that only people who have reviewed the album can vote its tag though, no "tagging without review".

Wonderful idea. Is it practical?
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Points: 417 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2013 at 08:57
As an avid user and ocasional reviewer I believe that option (2) of the OP is good. However, when thinking about the tremendous work it would lead (and confusion, fights etc.) I think that keepin' the system as it is today and adding an album by album sublabeling it would be great, specially when you have some bands with a monstruous discog and lots of career's turning points. Like in the MMA. So, it's easier to mantain the things and to add a common sense mark (by the colabs) on each album that is diverse from the main trend of the band.
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Points: 65800 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2013 at 03:57
^ Great points -
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Points: 528 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2013 at 03:04
While I think that album tagging (not artist tagging) can add value, this proposed consolidation of  genres seems to me more likely to erode value. Where genres do overlap (space and psych for instance) they are held in the same bucket already. In the example above, why would RPI remain a separate entity while folk and neo don't (both also have a distinct sound and characteristics)?
I do think that RPI is more than italian symphonic and should have its own sub-genre team. I also think that neo-prog is more than 1980s symphonic prog. Either consolidate all three (Symphonic / Neo / RPI) or leave them as they are. Actually, leave them as they are.


Edited by Bosh66 - January 23 2013 at 07:17
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Points: 617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 15:39
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

2. There is more of a consensus, although nowhere near unanimous, in some form of rationalisation of the sub-genres. Therefore, I propose these. Neo and symphonic to be merged into a single "symphonic influenced" sub-genre. Art Rock to encompass eclectic, crossover, Canterbury, psych, prog folk. Progressive Electronic, which is self explanatory. RPI. Prog Metal, to encompass all heavy and metal related acts. Finally, Fusion, which would encompass all avant, jazz rock, rio, zeuhl. Yes, we would still have piles of rows about these categories, but wouldn't it be a damned sight better than now?
I like this sort of approach but would suggest that Canterbury would more properly belong under fusion - it's a highly jazz-influenced subgenre, easily to a similar extent as zeuhl is, and indeed many Canterbury artists have drifted between Canterbury and fusion with ease.
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Points: 617 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 22 2013 at 15:35
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

2)  Unacceptably long to add major releases?   Then, if they've been officially released, add those releases yourself.   As far as I know any member is still allowed to add any proper release of a band that appears on PA.
In both the cases I was thinking of - Squackett and Arch/Matheos - this wouldn't actually be possible because whilst we can all add albums, we can't add artists.

Essentially, what I am proposing is that someone should have the power to override the genre teams and just add an artist if it's taking unacceptably long for the genre teams to assign the artist in question (as was the case with Squackett).


Edited by Warthur - January 22 2013 at 15:36
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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 12:19
I'd elect not to repeat myself, you guys might want to follow my lead on that part. Wink
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Points: 13871 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 12:17
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

NOW it sounds to me as if it was taken personally. I agree with Tony: making it personal will get you nowhere.

My opening post was a genuine expression of my opinion, opened up for debate. The personal bit came out of that debate.


Nope.  It was personal for a good many of us, right from your opening salvo.  I'm amazed that you still don't see that. 

You go so far in it as to lecture people not to be "lecturing" while you accuse them of pedantry/dsyfunction and try to abolish the team system and the genres they've worked on for years.  You took your feelings for certain individuals, your personal disputes, and tried to use that to sell the changes you want.  You publicly gave all of us on the teams a broad brush smear by trying to make "the system" seem dysfunctional and unworkable, when it isn't, to serve your argument. 

Not personal, eh?  

I, for one, would rather that you and I agree to disagree, and end this part of the debate. Okay? Because it does seem to me that we might potentially have a goer in the album tagging, if Max agrees.
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Points: 17527 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 07:52
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

NOW it sounds to me as if it was taken personally. I agree with Tony: making it personal will get you nowhere.

My opening post was a genuine expression of my opinion, opened up for debate. The personal bit came out of that debate.


Nope.  It was personal for a good many of us, right from your opening salvo.  I'm amazed that you still don't see that. 

You go so far in it as to lecture people not to be "lecturing" while you accuse them of pedantry/dsyfunction and try to abolish the team system and the genres they've worked on for years.  You took your feelings for certain individuals, your personal disputes, and tried to use that to sell the changes you want.  You publicly gave all of us on the teams a broad brush smear by trying to make "the system" seem dysfunctional and unworkable, when it isn't, to serve your argument. 

Not personal, eh?  
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 06:37
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Can anyone make some assessment of the technical and economical feasibility of implementing album tagging or band multi-tagging?

Because we often talk about these but it they are not realistic it's just a waste of time.


It's more a matter of workhours than economy as such I suspect. If you say that it'll take on average 10 minutes to agree on an album tagging, and we have 40.000 or so albums in the database, that is 400.000 minutes of manhours needed to overhaul the database. Or 6667 hours if you like.
Unnecessary - just tag all the albums with the parent subgenre of the band then allow people to add/change tags whenever they like. I'll guarantee that genesis's I van't dance won't stay tagged symphonic for long.

Yep, and it would also have the advantage of being a very much more representative opinion of the site.
Years ago M@x said we could have album tagging, he then said he would try it out on MMA first. All we can do is wait.
 
I've said this before - any changes that require M@x to alter the database structure are out of our hands no matter how much of a good idea everyone thinks they are.
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Points: 13871 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 06:22
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Can anyone make some assessment of the technical and economical feasibility of implementing album tagging or band multi-tagging?

Because we often talk about these but it they are not realistic it's just a waste of time.


It's more a matter of workhours than economy as such I suspect. If you say that it'll take on average 10 minutes to agree on an album tagging, and we have 40.000 or so albums in the database, that is 400.000 minutes of manhours needed to overhaul the database. Or 6667 hours if you like.
Unnecessary - just tag all the albums with the parent subgenre of the band then allow people to add/change tags whenever they like. I'll guarantee that genesis's I van't dance won't stay tagged symphonic for long.

Yep, and it would also have the advantage of being a very much more representative opinion of the site.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 03:05
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Can anyone make some assessment of the technical and economical feasibility of implementing album tagging or band multi-tagging?

Because we often talk about these but it they are not realistic it's just a waste of time.


It's more a matter of workhours than economy as such I suspect. If you say that it'll take on average 10 minutes to agree on an album tagging, and we have 40.000 or so albums in the database, that is 400.000 minutes of manhours needed to overhaul the database. Or 6667 hours if you like.
Unnecessary - just tag all the albums with the parent subgenre of the band then allow people to add/change tags whenever they like. I'll guarantee that genesis's I van't dance won't stay tagged symphonic for long.
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Points: 11401 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 02:30
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Can anyone make some assessment of the technical and economical feasibility of implementing album tagging or band multi-tagging?

Because we often talk about these but it they are not realistic it's just a waste of time.


It's more a matter of workhours than economy as such I suspect. If you say that it'll take on average 10 minutes to agree on an album tagging, and we have 40.000 or so albums in the database, that is 400.000 minutes of manhours needed to overhaul the database. Or 6667 hours if you like.
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Points: 5160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 02:00
Can anyone make some assessment of the technical and economical feasibility of implementing album tagging or band multi-tagging?

Because we often talk about these but it they are not realistic it's just a waste of time.
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Points: 13871 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2013 at 00:54
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

NOW it sounds to me as if it was taken personally. I agree with Tony: making it personal will get you nowhere.

My opening post was a genuine expression of my opinion, opened up for debate. The personal bit came out of that debate.
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 18:38
NOW it sounds to me as if it was taken personally. I agree with Tony: making it personal will get you nowhere.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - January 20 2013 at 18:40
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Points: 13871 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 18:32
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Okay. I have had my say, and I initiated this debate. It is clear that this debate has, effectively, ended with the senior collabs and admins in favour of keeping the status quo. Fine, I accept that.
Unless anyone makes a post which I regard as necessitating a response, I am signing off from here now, because this is a pretty lonely furrow to plough.
And no, Jim, I am not a bad fellow, really, and my comments and opinions were genuinely meant to help, although I accept that the comments might not have been read that way.
Oh well, Arsenal have lost, this debate has run its course, and I am now off to walk the dog and have a couple of pints.


Whilst I've an idea who you are alluding to, I think it is a terrible idea to make this argument personal, as it moreorless nullifies your point. Plus most of the people here have no way to peruse the Collab Zone.

Yes you have (as do all of you). No it isn't. No, it doesn't. No they don't.
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Points: 11985 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 16:17
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:

Okay. I have had my say, and I initiated this debate. It is clear that this debate has, effectively, ended with the senior collabs and admins in favour of keeping the status quo. Fine, I accept that.
Unless anyone makes a post which I regard as necessitating a response, I am signing off from here now, because this is a pretty lonely furrow to plough.
And no, Jim, I am not a bad fellow, really, and my comments and opinions were genuinely meant to help, although I accept that the comments might not have been read that way.
Oh well, Arsenal have lost, this debate has run its course, and I am now off to walk the dog and have a couple of pints.


Whilst I've an idea who you are alluding to, I think it is a terrible idea to make this argument personal, as it moreorless nullifies your point. Plus most of the people here have no way to peruse the Collab Zone.
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