What makes a good Prog song?
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Topic: What makes a good Prog song?
Posted By: SteveG
Subject: What makes a good Prog song?
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 10:58
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A very subjective question, but I surmise that many members will express similar views. So, what elements, in your opinion, are needed in order to make a make a good Prog song? Feel free to talk about music, musicianship, lyrics, concepts, recording techniques or whatever you feel is necessary from the artist.
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Replies:
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 11:28
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In no particular order: Virtuosity. I like to hear great musician play well. This even goes back before I truly discovered Prog when Ritchie Blackmore was like a god to me. Complex structures. Changes in tempo, key, time-signature, tone, chords, and instrumentation always catch my attention. Intelligent lyrics. Words that convey meaning and insight, preferably with a good melody. Listenability. While I appreciate chaos and dissonance, too much of it becomes a distraction. If I cannot distinguish the music from random sounds, I don't care much for it. Cohesion. A piece of music, whether a vocal song or instrumental, must come as a whole. This is especially challenging with multi-part epics. All the elements must hold together and serve one another. This also applies to albums as a whole and not just individual tracks. There is an art to pacing.
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 11:43
Steve Hogarth, Steven Rothery, Mark Kelly, Ian Moseley, Pete Trewavas.
Next...... 
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 11:47
 lazland wrote:
Steve Hogarth, Steven Rothery, Mark Kelly, Ian Moseley, Pete Trewavas.
Next...... |
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 11:50
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 11:50
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Stacks of analog synthesizers (and Rhodes), a beefy bass guitar tone, and percussion. Everything else is optional!
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Posted By: The Sloth
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 12:12
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Colorful yet tasteful drumming; interesting "events" one after another; the undeniable creation of a mental image or feeling; the sense that this particular musical situation can only be found here in this song/album, yet the music itself isn't a chore to listen to.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 16:08
lazland wrote:
Steve Hogarth, Steven Rothery, Mark Kelly, Ian Moseley, Pete Trewavas.
Next...... |
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 16:08
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Posted By: twalsh
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 18:18
Complexity, with a balance of melody and dissonance in the music and sufficient dynamics to appreciate both.Structure that extends at least a little beyond verse-chorus-verse Intelligent lyrics - interesting concepts are a bonus. I prefer my lyrics at least somewhat connected to real life experience or philosophy. Go easy on stories about elves and fairies. Virtuosity, especially with guitar. Yet, with instruments beyond just guitar/bass/drums or effects that make up for the lack of diverse instruments.
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More heavy prog, please!
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 19:10
On the side of all mentioned above, and despite of prog instrumentals, I think that a way of singing is tremendously important issue.
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 19:20
Something that is a departure from habitual time honoured song structures e.g intro/verse 1/chorus/verse 2/middle eight/chorus/guitar solo etc In short, a good Prog song shouldn't really resemble a conventional song at all (otherwise it's just a long winded pop song )
Oh, and also sparkly costumes...
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Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 19:46
ExittheLemming wrote:
sparkly costumes...
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nail on the head
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 20:09
Music that doesn't suck.
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 21:27
verslibre wrote:
Stacks of analog synthesizers (and Rhodes), a beefy bass guitar tone, and percussion. Everything else is optional! |
Nay. Mellotrons in Prog are never optional.
A good prog song should be drenched in 8 voice choir, strings, flute, etc. On Mellotron.
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Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 22:10
The Sloth wrote:
Colorful yet tasteful drumming; interesting "events" one after another; the undeniable creation of a mental image or feeling; the sense that this particular musical situation can only be found here in this song/album, yet the music itself isn't a chore to listen to. |
I like this. Especially the "Interesting events" bit.
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 00:16
Unusual timbre.
Odd time signatures and unpredictable metrical characteristics in general.
Arrangements with lots of transitions.
Merging of other styles with rock.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 01:15
cstack3 wrote:
verslibre wrote:
Stacks of analog synthesizers (and Rhodes), a beefy bass guitar tone, and percussion. Everything else is optional! |
Nay. Mellotrons in Prog are never optional.
A good prog song should be drenched in 8 voice choir, strings, flute, etc. On Mellotron. |
Okay, throw in 'Tron sounds because I do love 'em, I just don't want the 'Tron to become a crutch. 
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 01:43
guitars, guitar tunes! 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 03:36
cstack3 wrote:
verslibre wrote:
Stacks of analog synthesizers (and Rhodes), a beefy bass guitar tone, and percussion. Everything else is optional! |
Nay. Mellotrons in Prog are never optional.
A good prog song should be drenched in 8 voice choir, strings, flute, etc. On Mellotron. |
So that's where Keith Emerson went wrong ( I know I am going to open a hornets nest with this comment ) |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 03:44
richardh wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
verslibre wrote:
Stacks of analog synthesizers (and Rhodes), a beefy bass guitar tone, and percussion. Everything else is optional! |
Nay. Mellotrons in Prog are never optional.
A good prog song should be drenched in 8 voice choir, strings, flute, etc. On Mellotron. |
So that's where Keith Emerson went wrong ( I know I am going to open a hornets nest with this comment ) |
\The Flute is not necessary always and authentic piano tunes depending on the song construction can easily at times sound better instead compered to the mellotron . xxxx
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 03:50
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this is my best example of a 60's prog song with piano and yes flute too. Filmed on location at Machu Picchu. This absolute outstanding to date! Really! La poderosa muerte - Los Jaivas en Machu Picchu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO8pY09h_Y" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO8pY09h_Y
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 03:57
SteveG wrote:
A very subjective question, but I surmise that many members will express similar views. So, what elements, in your opinion, are needed in order to make a make a good Prog song? Feel free to talk about music, musicianship, lyrics, concepts, recording techniques or whatever you feel is necessary from the artist.
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It depends.
Perfection, at least for me, is not something you can scribble down like a recipe.
I love love love the drums, but I love tracks without them too. I love intricate lyrics with clever songwriting underneath but am just as crazy for directionless freeform tunes in a madeup language. I love electronic music but I also love folk.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 03:59
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Not too much notes. Not too much breaks.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 04:18
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Unconventionality is the only real must have for me. If it's going to be by the numbers, I don't need it. Can't really point to any other particular characteristics.
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Posted By: thwok
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 07:22
richardh wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
verslibre wrote:
Stacks of analog synthesizers (and Rhodes), a beefy bass guitar tone, and percussion. Everything else is optional! |
Nay. Mellotrons in Prog are never optional.
A good prog song should be drenched in 8 voice choir, strings, flute, etc. On Mellotron. |
So that's where Keith Emerson went wrong ( I know I am going to open a hornets nest with this comment ) |
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Posted By: thwok
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 07:26
In response to richardh, I feel you man! If you're saying that Emerson's problem was not enough mellotron, I completely agree. Of course, my intense disdain for ELP leads me to find most of what they do problematic.
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I am the funkiest man on the planet!
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 10:47
Music....lyrics sometimes
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 11:22
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I have more respect for mellotron when people are recording their own samples rather than just using what's passed around.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 12:09
anything that works, I mean really?
as long as it it song and had mellortron
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 12:21
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We all agree about this important component. Anything else?
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 13:15
Kati wrote:
this is my best example of a 60's prog song with piano and yes flute too. Filmed on location at Machu Picchu. This absolute outstanding to date! Really! La poderosa muerte - Los Jaivas en Machu Picchu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO8pY09h_Y" rel="nofollow -
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 13:16
SteveG wrote:
We all agree about this important component. Anything else? |
British 20-somethings from the 1970s. It ain't prog unless British 20-somethings from the 1970s wrote and played it.
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Magma America Great Make Again
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 14:20
SteveG wrote:
We all agree about this important component. Anything else? |
I don't really agree about the necessity of the mellotron. I think a lot of options for getting big sounds or interesting timbres in general have had lots of success in the past and continue to have lots of promise in the future.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 17:35
zravkapt wrote:
SteveG wrote:
We all agree about this important component. Anything else? |
British 20-somethings from the 1970s. It ain't prog unless British 20-somethings from the 1970s wrote and played it.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you on this as the best Mellotron players were usually British 30-somethings.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 19:41
^Some German 30somethings had a good handle on it, too.
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Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 20:00
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Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: March 28 2015 at 21:22
Fire, passion - just some of the primordial elements required for my full appreciation of any music, and so a prog song too, I just can't appreciate it first from the nowadays fully developed (and long discussed) Prog subjects and technical issues, even if I knew very much about them (not my case unfortunately); as well as any instrumental sounds may be secondary to me with regards to full-fledged damn hooking melodies, song-wise.
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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 01:04
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Robert Fripp is revitalizing the Mellotron. It sounded amazing in the 2014 KC show I saw.
Here's more. If it doesn't have Mellotron, it's not very proggy. Not sure why Emerson never warmed to them, he probably broke his the minute he tried to play it.
http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/" rel="nofollow - http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/
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Posted By: Kazza3
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 04:17
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I'm pretty sure we've already had this thread within the last few months, but if you had to give an answer, something like this
[QUOTE=The Sloth]Colorful yet tasteful drumming; interesting "events" one after another; the undeniable creation of a mental image or feeling; the sense that this particular musical situation can only be found here in this song/album, yet the music itself isn't a chore to listen to. [/QUOTE]
is one of the nicer ways of putting it.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 10:06
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Hi,
Written as a giggle! Some items that are necessary! With a loud thank you to Pete and Dud!
1. Lots of quiet and silent breaks to send away the "prog'istas"
2. Lots of meandering passages so music experts can say that it's a waste of space! A waste of notes and chords!!!
3. Very slow parts with a singer barely saying anything, so progressive "fashionistas" will think that the words are important. Sex like sounds and the like in the background are a bonus!
4. A very loud guitar that seems to be on its own completely apart from the rest of the music, so wwe think this is more progressive.
5. All other musicians take a cigarette break during the loud guitar part, because you can put a small brick on top of 5 keys on the keyboard, and you can turn on the auto drummer and kick in the synth and bass pads!
6. Even though you can not see it during the CD and the listening, the pictures of the band show a massive light show with so much fog and clouds, that we think this is far out. The colors weren't bad either!
7. Towards the end of the piece, there ALWAYS will be a very berry loud organ playing. However, it must not reach the 20ft size yet! Or it won't be "progressive" ... ie. have a chance to grow!
8. A format that has to resemble a sonata so the mass listenership can enjoy it and not think that there is no music here.
9. The drumming has to be repetitive (with loud snare of course!) so that folks know where the beat of the music is supposed to be, and to make them think that this is REAL music!
10. When the band hits the top ten of progressive lists, it is related to God-like status and everyone else has to go die for it, and be a total bum and idiot and not know anything about music, let alone "progressive". This way, there won't be competition for any hashish hashin out there!
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Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 11:27
Posted By: Carcharodon
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 11:45
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Lyrics in kobaian
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 12:20
cstack3 wrote:
If it doesn't have Mellotron, it's not very proggy. Not sure why Emerson never warmed to them, he probably broke his the minute he tried to play it.
http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/" rel="nofollow - http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/
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An interesting question about Wakeman's aversion to the Mellotron. I just listened to Strawbs' Live at the BBC Vol Two, on Friday, that showcases excerpts of three concerts that feature the Wakeman, Weaver, and Hawken keyboard centered Strawbs incarnations, and Wakeman's little use of Mellotron is quite marked. However, unlike his musical followers, Wakeman does some incredible piano and organ improvisations instead that are jaw dropping.Perhaps he felt that, for him, the Mellotron was simply superfluous.
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 16:53
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One carbon atom, six hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom are the elements that improve prog for me.
Preferably in a liquid brewed by Wychwood, Timothy Taylors or similar.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 17:30
SteveG wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
If it doesn't have Mellotron, it's not very proggy. Not sure why Emerson never warmed to them, he probably broke his the minute he tried to play it.
http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/" rel="nofollow - http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/
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An interesting question about Wakeman's aversion to the Mellotron. I just listened to Strawbs' Live at the BBC Vol Two, on Friday, that showcases excerpts of three concerts that feature the Wakeman, Weaver, and Hawken keyboard centered Strawbs incarnations, and Wakeman's little use of Mellotron is quite marked. However, unlike his musical followers, Wakeman does some incredible piano and organ improvisations instead that are jaw dropping.Perhaps he felt that, for him, the Mellotron was simply superfluous.
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Wakeman did play Mellotron on a number of his solo albums and with Yes. It was Emerson who messed with one once (?) and then left it.
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Posted By: Guy Guden
Date Posted: March 29 2015 at 18:42
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No matter how good the song is, Steven Wilson will re-master it.
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 01:02
verslibre wrote:
Kati wrote:
this is my best example of a 60's prog song with piano and yes flute too. Filmed on location at Machu Picchu. This absolute outstanding to date! Really! La poderosa muerte - Los Jaivas en Machu Picchu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO8pY09h_Y" rel="nofollow - |
Hello Verslibre , Now you make me feel as dumb as a cucumber as I do not know what Triana and Bloque means? However I am most curious really in knowing this now  hugs |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 01:08
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 01:15
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 01:20
thwok wrote:
In response to richardh, I feel you man! If you're saying that Emerson's problem was not enough mellotron, I completely agree. Of course, my intense disdain for ELP leads me to find most of what they do problematic. |
It was entirely an ironic comment Even Rick Wakeman said the Mellotron was a 'cheat' although he continued to use it. I guess for Rick it was a cheap and easy way to create a choir before he had enough money to do it properly.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 02:30
Kati wrote:
verslibre wrote:
Kati wrote:
this is my best example of a 60's prog song with piano and yes flute too. Filmed on location at Machu Picchu. This absolute outstanding to date! Really! La poderosa muerte - Los Jaivas en Machu Picchu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO8pY09h_Y" rel="nofollow - |
Hello Verslibre , Now you make me feel as dumb as a cucumber as I do not know what Triana and Bloque means? However I am most curious really in knowing this now hugs |
Hi, Katita, I thought you preferred zucchini. Bloque and Triana are both Spanish progressive rock bands. BLOQUE http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=612" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=612 "Poemas de Soledad / Alquimista Soy" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JElEFwnGvJA" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JElEFwnGvJA TRIANA http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=828" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=828 "!Ya esta bien! / Necesito" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pT5LChlw2Y" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pT5LChlw2Y
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 11:39
verslibre wrote:
SteveG wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
If it doesn't have Mellotron, it's not very proggy. Not sure why Emerson never warmed to them, he probably broke his the minute he tried to play it.
http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/" rel="nofollow - http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/
|
An interesting question about Wakeman's aversion to the Mellotron. I just listened to Strawbs' Live at the BBC Vol Two, on Friday, that showcases excerpts of three concerts that feature the Wakeman, Weaver, and Hawken keyboard centered Strawbs incarnations, and Wakeman's little use of Mellotron is quite marked. However, unlike his musical followers, Wakeman does some incredible piano and organ improvisations instead that are jaw dropping.Perhaps he felt that, for him, the Mellotron was simply superfluous.
|
Wakeman did play Mellotron on a number of his solo albums and with Yes. It was Emerson who messed with one once (?) and then left it. |
Wakeman was not terribly enthused with the Mellotron early in his career and tended to use the smaller Moog synths when he tenured with Yes. That's not to say he didn't use them at all, as is the case with the time warped orchestral section in And You And I from CTTE.
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 11:42
verslibre wrote:
Kati wrote:
verslibre wrote:
Kati wrote:
this is my best example of a 60's prog song with piano and yes flute too. Filmed on location at Machu Picchu. This absolute outstanding to date! Really! La poderosa muerte - Los Jaivas en Machu Picchu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AO8pY09h_Y" rel="nofollow - |
Hello Verslibre , Now you make me feel as dumb as a cucumber as I do not know what Triana and Bloque means? However I am most curious really in knowing this now hugs |
Hi, Katita, I thought you preferred zucchini. Bloque and Triana are both Spanish progressive rock bands. BLOQUE http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=612" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=612 "Poemas de Soledad / Alquimista Soy" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JElEFwnGvJA" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JElEFwnGvJA TRIANA http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=828" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=828 "!Ya esta bien! / Necesito" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pT5LChlw2Y" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pT5LChlw2Y |
ha! Thanks Verslibre, going to look and listen to both bands now ha! Thank you very much mhwoaahhxxxx hugs |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 11:51
SteveG wrote:
verslibre wrote:
SteveG wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
If it doesn't have Mellotron, it's not very proggy. Not sure why Emerson never warmed to them, he probably broke his the minute he tried to play it.
http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/" rel="nofollow - http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/
|
An interesting question about Wakeman's aversion to the Mellotron. I just listened to Strawbs' Live at the BBC Vol Two, on Friday, that showcases excerpts of three concerts that feature the Wakeman, Weaver, and Hawken keyboard centered Strawbs incarnations, and Wakeman's little use of Mellotron is quite marked. However, unlike his musical followers, Wakeman does some incredible piano and organ improvisations instead that are jaw dropping.Perhaps he felt that, for him, the Mellotron was simply superfluous.
|
Wakeman did play Mellotron on a number of his solo albums and with Yes. It was Emerson who messed with one once (?) and then left it. |
Wakeman was not terribly enthused with the Mellotron early in his career and tended to use the smaller Moog synths when he tenured with Yes. That's not to say he didn't use them at all, as is the case with the time warped orchestral section in And You And I from CTTE. |
Cooee! Having a mellotron/novatron is not necessary as a requirement to be prog, too many factors are at play here ok now this band at the time with David Byron and Ken Hensley on Hammond organ was prog and they were so good uriah heep - july morning 1972 live - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzRrGNygjzs&list=PLMyHPEAFkfwMnzu3X4ADg_4lK7g75AIDM&index=3" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzRrGNygjzs&list=PLMyHPEAFkfwMnzu3X4ADg_4lK7g75AIDM&index=3 |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 13:17
SteveG wrote:
verslibre wrote:
SteveG wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
If it doesn't have Mellotron, it's not very proggy. Not sure why Emerson never warmed to them, he probably broke his the minute he tried to play it.
http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/" rel="nofollow - http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/01/25/expect-even-more-mellotron-inspired-by-king-crimson-steven-wilson-purchases-classic-instrument/
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An interesting question about Wakeman's aversion to the Mellotron. I just listened to Strawbs' Live at the BBC Vol Two, on Friday, that showcases excerpts of three concerts that feature the Wakeman, Weaver, and Hawken keyboard centered Strawbs incarnations, and Wakeman's little use of Mellotron is quite marked. However, unlike his musical followers, Wakeman does some incredible piano and organ improvisations instead that are jaw dropping.Perhaps he felt that, for him, the Mellotron was simply superfluous.
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Wakeman did play Mellotron on a number of his solo albums and with Yes. It was Emerson who messed with one once (?) and then left it. |
Wakeman was not terribly enthused with the Mellotron early in his career and tended to use the smaller Moog synths when he tenured with Yes. That's not to say he didn't use them at all, as is the case with the time warped orchestral section in And You And I from CTTE. |
Rick also used it on TFTO, but the 'Tron appears with reasonable frequency on a number of his solo albums, including the more recent Retro and Retro 2 (which I like a lot). Quick reference: http://www.planetmellotron.com/revwakeman.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.planetmellotron.com/revwakeman.htm
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 13:23
Kati wrote:
Cooee! Having a mellotron/novatron is not necessary as a requirement to be prog, too many factors are at play here ok now this band at the time with David Byron and Ken Hensley on Hammond organ was prog and they were so good uriah heep - july morning 1972 live - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzRrGNygjzs&list=PLMyHPEAFkfwMnzu3X4ADg_4lK7g75AIDM&index=3" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzRrGNygjzs&list=PLMyHPEAFkfwMnzu3X4ADg_4lK7g75AIDM&index=3 |
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 13:29
^Good posts, guys (and gal). I was referring to early in Wakeman's career, especially his Strawbs' era, but I'm just splitting hairs. I have to get back to work now, so cheers to all!
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 14:15
SteveG wrote:
^Good posts, guys (and gal). I was referring to early in Wakeman's career, especially his Strawbs' era, but I'm just splitting hairs. I have to get back to work now, so cheers to all!
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Sorry, I overlooked that. AFAIK, Rick didn't actually have a 'Tron till he joined Yes.
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 14:21
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I think Wakeman is the coolest musician who did whatever he wanted, when he felt like it he left YES to do other projects and bugger about, just the same when he decided to come back, he was most welcome back too
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 15:04
Wakey's one of the best things to happen to prog rock in general. He has many detractors, e.g. "Emerson is better," "Moraz was better," "I don't like his capes," etc., but they can't change that.
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 15:12
Guy Guden wrote:
No matter how good the song is, Steven Wilson will re-master it. |
Actually, he won't.... he'll remix, but he won't master. Check out the http://www.dprp.net/wp/interviews/?page_id=2502" rel="nofollow - interview he did with DPRP in 2013 :
DPRP interview with SW wrote:
In doing these remasters… Re-mixes, I don’t do re-masters…
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Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 15:14
Progosopher wrote:
In no particular order: Virtuosity. I like to hear great musician play well. This even goes back before I truly discovered Prog when Ritchie Blackmore was like a god to me. Complex structures. Changes in tempo, key, time-signature, tone, chords, and instrumentation always catch my attention. Intelligent lyrics. Words that convey meaning and insight, preferably with a good melody. Listenability. While I appreciate chaos and dissonance, too much of it becomes a distraction. If I cannot distinguish the music from random sounds, I don't care much for it. Cohesion. A piece of music, whether a vocal song or instrumental, must come as a whole. This is especially challenging with multi-part epics. All the elements must hold together and serve one another. This also applies to albums as a whole and not just individual tracks. There is an art to pacing. |
Almost my list. I'd replace 'Complex structures' with 'Unusual structures', regardless of complexity. But that's just looking at it from the perspective that what may sound complex to a listener is not always complex to achieve as a musician and vice versa.
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Posted By: Guy Guden
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 16:49
Angelo wrote:
[
Actually, he won't.... he'll remix, but he won't master. Check out the http://www.dprp.net/wp/interviews/?page_id=2502" rel="nofollow - interview he did with DPRP in 2013 : Re-mixes, I don’t do re-masters…
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[/QUOTE]
I stand corrected. Thank you. It makes the joke better. No matter how good the song is, Steven Wilson will re-mix it. |
Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 16:57
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Hahaha, it gets worse - he didn't even master Hand.Cannot.Erase Just check the liner notes ;-)
Goodnight!
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I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 17:10
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Yodeling and great guitar tunes, make it most interesting too. Focus - Hocus Pocus (Live Video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fEkYxRCl_c" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fEkYxRCl_c Wishbone Ash - Vas Dis [1971] (no flute unfortunately) Wishbone Ash - Vas Dis [1971] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia73dAETiGk" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia73dAETiGk
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: March 30 2015 at 17:14
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: March 31 2015 at 01:22
Kati wrote:
I think Wakeman is the coolest musician who did whatever he wanted, when he felt like it he left YES to do other projects and bugger about, just the same when he decided to come back, he was most welcome back too |
Indeed no argument from me on that When I saw Rick live last year ( or the year before , time flies) he talked about his early career and he said one of the best pieces of advice he got was from David Bowie who basically told him that whatever he does make sure he does it the way he wants not the way some record company wants it. I think we can safely say that Wakey took his advice!
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: April 01 2015 at 08:32
Kati wrote:
guitars, guitar tunes! |
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: April 01 2015 at 08:36
SteveG wrote:
We all agree about this important component. Anything else? |
I love these things..but after they were transported and I used them on stage, they went out of tune. Darn mellotrons..you'd think they would stay in tune. |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: April 01 2015 at 08:38
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I used to wear one in the garden |
Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: April 01 2015 at 08:39
richardh wrote:
Kati wrote:
I think Wakeman is the coolest musician who did whatever he wanted, when he felt like it he left YES to do other projects and bugger about, just the same when he decided to come back, he was most welcome back too |
Indeed no argument from me on that When I saw Rick live last year ( or the year before , time flies) he talked about his early career and he said one of the best pieces of advice he got was from David Bowie who basically told him that whatever he does make sure he does it the way he wants not the way some record company wants it. I think we can safely say that Wakey took his advice! |
Interesting! Didn't a lot of keyboard players follow his idea of stacking keyboards?
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 01 2015 at 10:46
^Definitely. Rick's the OS, "original stacker." After he programmed an original patch that he didn't want to lose, he secured the knobs and sliders with tape and went and bought another model of the same synth.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 01 2015 at 10:52
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Okay, we need to see a pic.
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: April 01 2015 at 10:57
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I like something melodic , but not too sugary and overly pretentious. I think that makes a very good Prog song as long as we have the right vocalist, which,,my whole problem with Prog has always been with the choice of vocalists, the style, and what they are choosing to sing. Greg Lake was singing the most pretentious lyrics on I.T.C.O.T.C.K. and making them sound out with soul and total dynamic feeling. After hearing him sing , it was difficult for me to accept anyone else and for a very long time ..because most Prog singers didn't project like Greg Lake. Maybe because he was a skilled songwriter and understood how to give the tone of the lyrics feeling. Peter Gabriel had a soulful voice , accomplished the same, but Greg Lake had a much wider range in pitches of notes and sustaining them at longer lengths. "Merlin" by Kayak is a Progressive Rock song that is very dynamic and contains what I'm looking for in a vocalist and the ultimate instrumentation. Not the re-recorded version released in 2001? That's too overdone for me. Way over the top with it's presentation and the vocals did not impress me in the least. The original version of "Merlin" recorded in 1975 was beautiful. I don't like guitar players taking improvisation type solos in a Prog song unless it is worked out a bit like Steve Howe and Steve Hackett often do. Too many keyboards rattle my chain, but just the right dosage hits the spot. Some Prog bands have yet to get the perfect flow. Florian Fricke , naturally had a perfect flow for the music. Maybe because he walked through mountains exposing himself to a different environment.
"Everdance" by Curved Air has the most perfect flowing groove and you can actually feel the violin solos and they don't give the impression that someone is showboating you to death with riffs. When the song starts, it feels like the musicians broke free from straight jackets and they continue with that level of relentless energy backing the beautiful female vocals with a dark chord sequence.
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