2nd Round Classics: Leftoverture v. .. And Then Th
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Topic: 2nd Round Classics: Leftoverture v. .. And Then ThPosted By: micky
Subject: 2nd Round Classics: Leftoverture v. .. And Then Th
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 07:50
This poll finds a interesting matchup of ... Kansas v. Genesis!! whoot.
to help us stay awake... let's feel the love and enthusiasm of those who ... aren't right in the head man
first up... from the master of blue font himself. The Symphonic Grand Inquisitor himself..
When I started to listen Prog at the age of 12 (Around 1976 or 1977), already the
golden era of Classic Symphonic Prog had ended, Genesis was trying to survive without
Gabriel and Hackett, Going for the One was not what some of us expected and ELP was
not the same band than in 1974.
The only remaining founder of the genre still to reach their peak was KANSAS and what
better way to start a long term musical relation than with "Leftoverture", the album
with which the Topeka kids reached the perfect balance between artistic quality and
economic success, something hard in Progressive Rock because only a few bands of the
genre managed to be popular without selling out and KANSAS is one of this strange
cases.
Still some people try to dismiss the achievements of KANSAS, I read reviews in which
they are called Pomp Rock, rednecks or mediocre AOR band, mostly from people who
don't have the knowledge of what KANSAS did in their early years and probably only
heard Dust in the Wind.
One of one of the main problems with this guys is that they were born in USA and not in
big city but in the heart of the tornado corridor and committed the crime to use a slight
touch of their native music (Country) in their albums, but except for some snobs this is
not a sin, by the contrary the perfect mixture of Symphonic structure with Hard Rock
and even Country Music made of this album one of the richest expressions of
Progressive Rock.
Another problem is that they managed to be successful, well this was forgiven in Pink
Floyd, Yes and even ELP but of course not in KANSAS, but at the end who cares for
negative opinions if we can let their music prove the contrary.
"Leftoverture" is simply a great album, not a single filler or weak track, of course each
one of us has our favorite tune, but all the songs are solid. The particular and nostalgic
sound of the band relies in their beautiful melodies and in the rare fact that they left
keyboards in the background giving Robby Steinhardt's violin the main role of the
performance, they can rock hard and bring tears to our eyes without any problem, as I
said before, the perfect balance.
It's hard to chose a favorite track because all are extremely good, but I always had a
soft spot for "Miracles Out of Nowhere", the vocal duet between Robby and Steve
Walsh in the peak of his vocal abilities is amazing, we're talking about a wonderful song,
incredibly complex combined with a beautiful melody as few tracks in the genre.
Other great songs are the classic "Opus Insert" where Steve Walsh's voice is really
amazing, after listening a few months ago I can't believe he was able to reach such a
variety of different ranges without any problem and his work with the keyboards is also
impeccable. Wouldn't be fair if I didn't mentioned Phil Ehart's perfect timing and
precision with the drums, an underrated percussionist.
"Cheyenne Anthem" is another example of great and complex Symphonic structure that
starts a bit soft, making us expect it's a nostalgic ballad about the native Americans but
then the piano and Steve's vocals leads to a breathtaking instrumental section where
KANSAS hit the listener with all they have and to close it Robby Steinhardt and his
magic classical violin with a slight taste of country music add the required drama,
another brilliant track.
Of course I can't forget about "Magnum Opus", a song that proves KANSAS released
extremely elaborate music, dramatic time changes, synchronized team work between
Robby plus the keyboards by Steve Walsh and Kerry Livegren. It's simply unbelievable
that after listening this masterpiece, still some people want to lump them with all the
AOR USA bands from late 70's/Early 80's,
I don't need to talk about the rest of the songs because there are enough reviews here
and only must add that if you're not afraid of nostalgic and sensible music, with
extreme Hard Rock sections, this is your album but if you believe that popularity and
melodic Prog suck, better don't buy "Leftoverture" because you will be disappointed.
I'm in the first group of Progheads and honestly believe this album is a forgotten gem
that should be in the top 10 or 20 albums of any Progressive Rock catalogue.
Five solid stars for a solid album.
and for the other album.. great review. Don't recall seeing this cat around the forums...
Despite wondering how wonderful this could have sounded with Hackett still around to
soften its edges and further advance the searing guitars that leak in and out of the
tracks, '...And Then There Were Three...' still stands as a superb album. The three
piece most certainly moved onward to new ground here - while still retaining the sense
that they were offering a complete package, for the first time in their 70s material
Genesis were out to empower their shorter pieces more than anything else, so this is
very much an album of separates, with little thematic continuity from track to track. But
this is by no means a hindrance to the record, and there are some intriguing moments
captured here that can't be found anywhere else in the band's history.
The music almost feels like a natural progression from the heavy synth and drum-led
prog of 'Wind And Wuthering', now refined into smaller bursts of energy. The
opener 'Down And Out' firmly states this, moving from its tense, fragile synth (very
much an introduction for the album and not just the track) into a veritable overdrive of
marching drums and guitar, rolling in and out of step, laden with Banks' favourite key
sounds of the time. If you're playing the record at the proper volume, you'd have to
seriously be looking the other way to miss the power here, as Phil launches into a
rendering of some ruthless executive imparting his 'wisdom' to players in danger of
being ousted by the times - applicable of course to the music business as much as
anything else.
This is followed up by the beautiful 'Undertow', a Tony Banks piece featuring both his
thoughtful lyrics as well as the trademark washes of piano and synth. It's worth
mentioning the credit that must go to the band and David Hentschel for managing to
mix so many dense sounds together equally without completely burying the drums and
the vocals, particularly in the chorus strains of this piece about surviving through 'dark
nights of the soul', where Phil's aching vocal fights a wall of sound from Banks. This
effect is mirrored in the Rutherford piece 'Snowbound', a fairytale-like piece in which
hides a glimpse of something sinister and quite sad, where in the ending the distant
calls for the snowman ring out against a backdrop of soaring, thick, undulating synth
waves that Tangerine Dream would have been proud of (let it be a commentary on the
quality of this album that even though my favourite Genesis era is the earlier era, and
my favourite albums are Trick and The Lamb, 'Snowbound' is still among my favourite
tracks).
The priceless offerings continue with tracks like the towering 'Burning Rope', 'Deep In
The Motherlode', 'Many Too Many', and 'Say It's Alright Joe', all offering more
excitement, dynamics, and moving lyricism in their short minutes than entire albums by
the band would achieve in later times. Rutherford handles all the guitar duties rather
well, and even though Hackett's absence is obvious, the usual range of sounds can still
be found, from delicate 12-string passages to pronounced soloing (check out the
awesome break in 'Burning Rope').
If there are blemishes on the album, they would be the somewhat pointless story
of 'Ballad Of Big' (a shame, since the piece is musically very strong), and the pop
song 'Follow You Follow Me', where the band create a simplistic summary of their own
style and run with one hook melody while Phil sings in a mode nobody ever really
wanted to hear Genesis enter... it's not 'More Fool Me', and it's not even 'Your Own
Special Way', this is a one dimensional love song. For shame, lads. Four and a half
stars - a half star off for closing this majestic album with a turkey.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Replies: Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 07:51
I'm sure Genesis is going to get killed here but they are an easy pick for me, I never liked Kansas.
------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 08:26
I cant vote in Phil Collins era.
------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 08:44
Don't really care for either album. Genesis I guess.
------------- Magma America Great Make Again
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 08:48
Leftoverture is probably Kansas' best, but ATTW3 is a favorite of mine since many years. Also a stepping stone towards the Genesis back catalogue for me and my friends, and to prog in general.
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 08:48
Genesis out of these.
Posted By: Nightfly
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 09:33
Kansas....their finest hour.
Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 09:46
Definitely the best Kansas record, but ATTWT has some seriously good songs on it (and a few terrible ones).
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 09:58
Easily Leftoverture.
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Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 10:32
Kansas easily ahead of The Phil Collins Trio.
------------- Guigo
~~~~~~
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 10:32
Kansas.
Posted By: Daysbetween
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 11:20
Don't like either but voted for Kansas's best album.
Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 12:13
Genesis was a contender but it was going to be Kansas from the start.
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 15:19
Don't like either of these, will probably skip this one rather than put myself through listening to them.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 15:20
Gah, I think I'll pass on this match.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 16:23
Leftoverture no question
Posted By: memowakeman
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 18:19
Leftoverture.
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Follow me on twitter @memowakeman
Posted By: AEProgman
Date Posted: July 11 2015 at 20:20
Kansas, although TTWT is a little underrated IMHO, love the opening track Down and Out.
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Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: July 12 2015 at 03:17
I always feel like a complete t**ser saying something as well liked as Kansas is horrible but there you go. Have no desire whatsoever to hear that ever again. Yes it has its moments and the playing is good but oh man the singing and most of the lyrics are just not my cup of tea.
Follow You etc put me off listening to TTWT for quite some time. Awful miserable little pop song. Listened to the whole thing again during round one and was pleasantly surprised. It's not their best by a long shot but it's still better than the opposition this time round.
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 12 2015 at 06:12
I think I'll sit on this one..
and explode my brain by voting for a Camel Album, Neo Album, and a Genesis album all on the same day.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 12 2015 at 06:18
hahahhaha... and Raff's as well.. who just saw my post..
WHAT???
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: July 12 2015 at 07:43
Leftoverture
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 12 2015 at 07:46
Can't believe Kansas is killing Genesis..... I do think Leftoverture is great, but better than Three ???
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 12 2015 at 20:55
There Were Three
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Posted By: aglasshouse
Date Posted: July 12 2015 at 21:33
The one on the Left.
------------- http://fryingpanmedia.com
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 13 2015 at 22:20
well since I was subject to threats and wasn't able to vote for Camel... I'm safe here. Again.. I do prefer the Genesis album and really don't like the Kansas album... it should be an easy vote. It makes it easy to vote since the Genesis album isn't going to win..and we don't want it to anyway. Sooner or later the Kansas haters will come out in force.. then we might have some fun.
so Genesis it is..
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: July 13 2015 at 22:24
Tom Ozric wrote:
Can't believe Kansas is killing Genesis..... I do think Leftoverture is great, but better than Three ???
Yes much better
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 13 2015 at 22:35
Mellotron Storm wrote:
I'm sure Genesis is going to get killed here but they are an easy pick for me, I never liked Kansas.
This
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: July 13 2015 at 23:02
Love both but the edge goes to Kansas.
------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 00:05
Oh God, it's difficult to vote against Genesis
But well, ATTW3 is an album by Phil Collins and Two Amigos
So my vote gotes for the fantastic LEFTOVERTURE
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 07:52
First listen to ATTWT. Enjoying it. None of the ambition of the Gabriel era but the musicianship's OK (especially Collins who was still on top of his game - the drumming on The Lady Lies is wonderful); I think Collins' voice is stronger than on ATOTT or WAW and the general sound is a sort of pleasant contrast between pompous rock and gentle pop harmonies. The little bits where the sound falls away have always been Banks' best moments on Genesis albums and there are a fair few of them here. The Lady Lies is a real standout in general. Will take more listens to determine whether the thing as a whole falls on the two or three star side of the pleasant-album-that-isn't-doing-too-much-new divide. I honestly kinda like Follow You Follow Me.
Next up... Leftoverture...
Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 08:37
And in the pop rock for the numerate category...
My (American) fianceé, being of sound mind, is throwing in a vote for Kansas. I'm really not enjoying it - it's like an album composed of Mike Rutherford's guitar parts - proficient but generic - the drum sound is pretty ugly throughout. vocals are naff and I'm not hearing anything that feels 'new' and the musicianship and melodies aren't so astonishingly mindblowing as to make up for that. Going in the 1/2 star bucket of albums that I don't think will improve a record collection but that don't really actively upset me. Favourite bit was the acoustic part on 'Miracles Out of Nowhere' and the percussion on Magnum Opus.
A vote for And Then There Were Three.
Posted By: Prog Sothoth
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 09:44
Leftoverture.
I can air-guitar to Carry on..., nobody air-guitars to Follow You...
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 10:07
I frankly do not care much for ATTWT. It's plodding, it's like W&W without Hackett. But oh lord, Kansas - something about the combination of Deep Purple-esque hard rock and EXTREMELY earnest singing really turns me off. There's nothing wrong with Walsh's singing per se; he sounds fantastic on Narnia off Hackett's Please Don't Touch album. There's also nothing wrong with Kansas' guitar licks even if they don't really grab me as something distinctive (as somebody else also said). But put the two together and it just doesn't work, not for me. Oh well, they are winning this easily.
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 18:21
and ,,,
bah.
I feel better now.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 14 2015 at 21:10
Well I tried listening to both and it's a lost cause for me, I was going to vote against Genesis but can't bring myself to vote for Kansas. No vote.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 15 2015 at 04:00
Leftoverture. I find it hard to call ATTW3 a classic.
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Posted By: twalsh
Date Posted: July 15 2015 at 13:57
Another undecided. I don't know this Genesis album, and it sounds much better than I expected.
------------- More heavy prog, please!
Posted By: Skalla-Grim
Date Posted: July 16 2015 at 09:55
Very hard, I think "And Then ..." is still a great album, but "Leftoverture" contains one of my favourite songs, "Miracles Out of Nowhere", and some other great music. So it's Leftoverture.
Posted By: Wicket
Date Posted: July 16 2015 at 10:19
I was tempted to just vote Kansas because I've never really been that big of a Phil Collins fan and just vote by default, but then when you think about it, both of these albums essentially seemed to herald the downfall of prog's golden age, and they're just not the best efforts here.
Kansas, but only barely.
------------- "My music is not modern, it is merely badly played" - Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 16 2015 at 15:14
Skalla-Grim wrote:
Very hard, I think "And Then ..." is still a great album, but "Leftoverture" contains one of my favourite songs, "Miracles Out of Nowhere", and some other great music. So it's Leftoverture.
Miracles is also my favorite track
But not this version
I was there in third row, and it was a disaster
Phil Ehart was so angry that he hits the drums with everything he has (Unusual in a drummer with such a technique) and gave a memorable performance, David Ragsdale was brilliant, and Rich Williams sober as usual but Billy Greer was the hero, he saved the vocals the most he could
But Steve....Poor guy, he couldn't hit one right note or tone with the voice in the whole night, he was so high that he didn't noticed that his keyboard was disconnected (Don't know if it was an accident or done to prevent him for ruining more the music)
Luckily years later, with less voice he did a magnificent performance with Robby Steinhardt, because they exchanged parts (Steve couldn't reach the higher notes but he was already clean and conscious of his limitations, so he let Robby take the lead and allowed Billy to support him in his parts).
Great show
Iván
PS: This are two of my favorite photos
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 16 2015 at 19:11
I was born in Kansas.
Prog Sothoth wrote:
Leftoverture.
I can air-guitar to Carry on..., nobody air-guitars to Follow You...
The truth has been told.
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 16 2015 at 20:37
Can both albums lose?
I guess Kansas.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: July 16 2015 at 22:32
Kansas, Leftoverture.
------------- When he rides, my fears subside. For darkness turns once more to light. Through the skies, his white horse flies. To find a land beyond the night.