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Topic: 2nd Round Classics: Octopus v. Space ShantyPosted By: micky
Subject: 2nd Round Classics: Octopus v. Space Shanty
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 08:49
next up another true heavyweight match..
in the near corner.. Gentle Giant Reviewed wonderfully by one of the favorite 'new' collabs. Madan!!
By 1972, prog was already pulling in conflicting directions. Bands began to emerge from the shadow
of early movers King Crimson and Pink Floyd and establish their own styles. And, unlike in most
rock based genres, these styles tended to be unique and even conflicting. Jethro Tull were involved
in a flirtation with theater rock that transcended their folk-rock roots. Yes and ELP were by now
convinced that bigger was better and represented the extremes of prog sprawl in the eyes of the
press, irrespective of how accurate such perceptions really were. Pink Floyd were moving from their
more experimental approach of the early albums to a more and more structured and organized
song-based style. Amidst all this, Gentle Giant carved out a niche all for themselves with an
approach that few, if any, prog rock bands have emulated over the years.
On Octopus, Gentle Giant demolish the myth that prog means length and bombast. On the one hand,
they stick to songs of length that do not exceed 6- 7 minutes and are rarely divergent from a pop
structure. On the other, funk and medieval music (yes, you read that right) dominate their musical
influences. So, far from sounding bombastic, they sound, intentionally or unintentionally, goofy.
It has occurred to me before that some passages off this album would not sound out of place in a Tom
and Jerry episode.
The question that immediately arises is if the songs are short and do not attempt to break out of
pop structure, how is it still prog? The answer to that is the essence of prog has always been an
investigative, exploratory approach to music. Prog attempts to take an idea and turn it inside out.
Of course, that is easier to demonstrate in a long piece where parts can be re-iterated and
resolved more gradually. It can potentially be disruptive in a short piece. But, it can definitely
be achieved and Gentle Giant demonstrate this to telling effect on Octopus.
Opener Advent of the Panurge is an excellent demonstration of this approach. On casual listening,
it could pass for pop. After all, it is just one set of vocal melodies re-iterated with an
interlude. The music doesn't change in the sense that we normally expect it to in prog. However,
on closer examination, Gentle Giant are exceptionally effective at managing change within a short
running length. They are able to cover a lot of ground in terms of development with massive changes
that are rarely supported by any great deal of reinforcement of preceding themes and yet appear
sufficiently intuitive and seamless.
For instance, at 1:52, a new theme is introduced when the verse has actually been sung only once.
And yet, it does not seem too soon for this development. Even better, this new theme too develops
all the time, without repetition, and before you know it, you have been led into an interlude. The
verse is then re-iterated the one time with which the song draws to a close. Hmmm....exposition,
development and re-capitulation? Pop fluff or prog 101 shrunk to a microcosm of its usual spread?
That is the far reaching implication of Gentle Giant's work and the fundamental principle around
which their whole style seems to revolve. Even before Robert Fripp suggested the small, smart,
self sustaining, mobile unit as an alternative to what he perceived as 70s excess, Gentle Giant had
already adopted such a very model and mastered it to a degree that most bands would find hard to
surpass.
More to come. Gentle Giant continue to embrace dissonance in contexts where you least expect them.
A Dog's Life is to Octopus as Black Cat to Acquiring The Taste. Seemingly innocuous and proceeds to
suck you into uncomfortable aural territory. And in contrast to the approach generally favoured in
the avant garde world, Gentle Giant don't force disruptive or disorienting changes to the music. A
strong sense of intuition binds together their audacious experimentation. Even Knots resolves into
a Black Sabbath-like riff so that the experiment makes sense. Gentle Giant do not only adopt complex
compositional techniques from classical music; they proceed to demonstrate how they could find a
place in rock music.
Gary Green's fondness for blues also gives them opportunities to mess with that genre. River is
more straightforward than The House, The Street, The Room off Acquiring The Taste. Once again,
though, let's not be deceived by appearances. Check out the time signatures and pay attention to the
demented vocal melody; this has to be a creation of this inimitable band. Arguably the very essence
of Gentle Giant is in fooling you with an innocuous, goofy facade that disguises the extent of
"bizarreness" actually present in their music.
For all this, they are not generally spoken of in the same breath as the other prog biggies.
Websites such as this one have played a big role in reviving their music for a new generation, but
for which they may have disappeared from public memory. The reason generally offered is they lack
emotional resonance and appear to indulge in complexity for complexity's sake. I cannot really
argue that they are very emotional to my ears. Instead, I would say, "Yeah, I agree but expecting
emotional resonance in prog is a bit like looking for overtaking in Formula One." And my retort
would be similar to that of Fernando Alonso when he was asked the same question. Isn't prog supposed
to be technical, cerebral music anyway? What makes Gentle Giant so wonderful is they put an unique,
refreshing twist on the pursuit of complexity in rock.
I have not described each of the tracks here but suffice it to say there are no throwaways, no real
weak moments here. An unqualified five stars.
and in the far corner... one of the greatest albums to come out of the Canterbury movement.
From Progarchives.com, the ultimate progressive rock music website
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=10439" rel="nofollow">
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=10439" rel="nofollow - Atavachron Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator
Khan was a remarkable coming together of talent that topped-off a period
in English rock never to be recaptured again, a pinnacle of Canterbury
sounds,
tough Sabbatic hard rock, and fugue organ flash-- no surprise with Dave
Stewart and Steve Hillage working together, supported by the more than
capable rhythm section of Nick Greenwood and Eric Peachey.
The band
was an offspring of the Stewart-Hillage relationship going back to Uriel
in 1968 (an outfit that mainly played Cream, Nice, and Hendrix covers)
which re-emerged as Egg in '69 and the short-lived Arzachel that same
year. In Khan we hear one of a handfull of keystone groups that
filled-in the gaps
in Prog's evolutionary history, taking from psychedelic blues but adding
a more musically educated sensibility. Though a winning combination,
these elements would soon disappear from popular music and 'Space
Shanty' remains an axial link in the bubbling but doomed
progressive/psych milieu.
Hillage had formed the original band in 1971 with bassist Greenwood,
keyboardist Dick Henningham (both with Arthur Brown), and Pip Pyle
drumming.
But it was the second line up - a product of the small and incestuous
art scene - of Greenwood and Peachey with Dave Stewart's helping hands
(while still
with Egg) that birthed this album. The set is a complete spectrum of
British rock, Canterbury, psych, post-modern classical and hippie-dippy
hints of
patchouli, risen to the surface and affixed in time, a bit too late for
its own good but compelling just the same. There may have been superior
bands;
Caravan, and Stewart's own Egg and National Health, but this session has
a singular, unified quality and is less pretentious than others of its
ilk. A
graveyard vocal opens the 9-minute title but quickly becomes prog as we
know it with winding organ-guitar harmonies, jazzy motifs and Stewart's
circus
tent play. 'Stranded' starts pastoral and drags a bit with whiney
sentiment but picks up by the middle, building nicely, and 'Mixed Up Man
of the
Mountains' is a pretty reflection with Hillage's searing axe and an
organ/guitar/voice scat. And nine minutes of 'Driving to Amsterdam'
peaks this album
out in classic English jazz-rock form. 'Stargazers' is angled and
adventurous with a bit of theater and many tempo shifts, a great piece,
and the soft and
sundrenched 'Hollowstone' concludes. The Eclectic Discs reissue has two
bonus tracks; the Caravan-esque 'Break the Chains' and a preliminary
version of
'Mixed Up Man of the Mountains'. A vital if tiny amuse-bouche in the
progressive first course, not to be missed.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Replies: Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:08
Octopus by a very wide tentacle.
------------- Magma America Great Make Again
Posted By: Disparate Times
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:11
zravkapt wrote:
Octopus by a very wide tentacle.
Make that two tentacles
Posted By: Kirillov
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:29
I like both GG and Hillage but much prefer other albums of theirs, I'll go for Khan as it needs the votes. Now if the choice had been Acquiring the Taste v Fish Rising I would have seriously struggled to choose!
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:36
Love both but have to go for Octopus. Thanks to micky, I don't have to explain why.
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:56
Khan quite easily.
------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 09:59
hahaha... this never gets old..
a harder vote if it had been Acquiring the Taste.. and would have voted for Three Friends.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Posted By: GKR
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:20
Octopus. How came Gentle Giant albums are not in the top 10 of PA?
Octopus is such a masterpiece...
------------- - From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:23
The one with a garden where Ringo dived.
------------- Guigo
~~~~~~
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:26
Gentle Giant
------------- This night wounds time.
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 10:27
micky wrote:
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 11:06
If it had been any other of GG's first seven albums than Octopus, which is my least favourite of those, this would've been harder. But since it's not this is an easy vote for Space Shanty, which would win this on album art alone. A space ship with green moss-like spots on it...makes my imagination of what these space pirates' been up to go wild!
-------------
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 11:33
Khan for me...I simply enjoy listening to it more than Octopus. But then I have never been a huge fan of GG who I always thought were too 'quirky' for their own good.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: Pastmaster
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 11:35
Gentle Giant of course!
Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 14:59
Gentle Giant
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 15:10
Difficult, holding my vote here for a while...
Posted By: Andrea Cortese
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 15:43
GG for me thanks
Posted By: Olape
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 17:29
Gentle Giant!!!
-------------
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 18:52
Octopus.
------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 20:17
Space Shanty by a flea's tooth.
Posted By: LearsFool
Date Posted: July 25 2015 at 22:33
Similar to Softs/Faust, I'm voting for a doomed underdog: Khan.
-------------
Posted By: PrognosticMind
Date Posted: July 26 2015 at 04:20
Octopus.
------------- "A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?"
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: July 26 2015 at 05:48
I give the edge to Space Shanty.
-------------
Posted By: Skalla-Grim
Date Posted: July 26 2015 at 07:15
Though I love "Space Shanty", my vote goes to "Octopus", which is one of GG's finest albums and an incorporation of progressive rock values.
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: July 26 2015 at 11:40
Like both a lot, just giving the edge to GG.
------------- Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: July 27 2015 at 04:50
Octopus lol
-------------
Posted By: t d wombat
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 21:31
I'm beginning to wonder if the so called Canterbury Scene is merely the same bunch of guys playing under different names.
Have to go with GG on this one.
------------- Andrew B
“Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.” ― Julius Henry Marx
Posted By: Necrotica
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 21:33
Octopus all the way!
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 28 2015 at 21:59
Tough, so different. Gotta go with Oc, but SS is a hardrock gem.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 20:53
Gentle Giant, Octopus.
------------- When he rides, my fears subside. For darkness turns once more to light. Through the skies, his white horse flies. To find a land beyond the night.
Posted By: Atkingani
Date Posted: July 29 2015 at 22:40
Space Shanty is a great album but Octopus seems unbeatable here.
------------- Guigo
~~~~~~
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: July 30 2015 at 01:58
octopus by far, one of the most elegant and quirky albums ever made
Posted By: addictedtoprog
Date Posted: July 30 2015 at 06:53
The creature.....
Posted By: Prog Sothoth
Date Posted: July 30 2015 at 11:28
KHAN!!!
I remember binging on GG for a while in an attempt to get into them some years ago...man that backfired. Even the band name now gets on my nerves.
Someday I'll give GG another shot, but I'll just dig the Canterbury stuff for now.
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: July 30 2015 at 12:54
Prog Sothoth wrote:
KHAN!!!
I remember binging on GG for a while in an attempt to get into them some years ago...man that backfired. Even the band name now gets on my nerves.
Someday I'll give GG another shot, but I'll just dig the Canterbury stuff for now.
I couldn't agree more, though I have been listening to GG from the beginning because some guys at college played them in the early and mid 70's. There are a few GG albums I do get into (the first and Acquiring..) but for the most part I always thought they were far too quirky for their own good and intentionally played that way to simply be different .
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Posted By: jayem
Date Posted: July 30 2015 at 13:33
GG, for the variety of trips, the balance in everything. The first and fifth track I fail to meet, the other ones were immediately painting wonders. Way more than the product from nice hard-working little dwarfs !
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: July 30 2015 at 13:39
A vote for the underdog here - not that it will make any difference. Octopus is also a favourite, so the outcome will make me happy anyway.
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: July 30 2015 at 15:11
Raff wrote:
A vote for the underdog here - not that it will make any difference. Octopus is also a favourite, so the outcome will make me happy anyway.
Yes, that sums it up for me as well.
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: July 30 2015 at 20:31
Octopus.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.