Roger Waters bass work
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Topic: Roger Waters bass work
Posted By: condor
Subject: Roger Waters bass work
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 09:58
| Which tracks does he really shine on? |
Replies:
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 10:07
Not the ones Gilmour played on. ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 11:12
 ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 12 2015 at 21:58
| I guess Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun. Specially live. |
Posted By: Replayer
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 00:23
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Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun, One of These Days (though Gilmour also plays bass on that one), Echoes, Have a Cigar. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 02:57
true enough that some of Animals bass playing was done by Gilmour at Waters's insistance, since he played rhythm guitar on those moments And Waters played those bass parts live, both after the album's release, and long before its release... since both Dogs & Sheeps were existing even before WIWH's recording and were regularly on stage. |
zravkapt wrote:Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 03:51
|
Rog is a decent, solid bassist. I love his playing throughout the Pompeii film. Also, I think the bass lines in Take Up Thy Stethoscope.......is really cool. Atom Heart bass lines are superb too. Actually, Roger was the reason I picked up a bass in the first place !! |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 05:12
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I've been getting into The Final Cut's "Not Now, John" as of late. Nothing spectacular but a true example of just how solid Waters was as a bass player. A great cut on an otherwise staid album. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 05:13
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I've been getting into The Final Cut's "Not Now, John" as of late. Nothing spectacular but a true example of just how solid Waters was as a bass player. A great cut on an otherwise staid album. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 11:10
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To be brutally honest I never thought much of his playing or singing;....he did come up with some good material and concepts though. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 11:33
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Posted By: DDPascalDD
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 15:07
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Don't forget Money! Also I really like roger at pigs, really cool thing he does just before gilmour strikes with his axe. ------------- |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 17:25
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DG said he played bass 'on about half' of the tracks on the Wall including the fretless bass on Hey You. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 13 2015 at 21:42
I think someone mentioned a little while ago around here that the bass on Pigs was played by Gilmour... though you might just as well not take my word for it. |
Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: October 14 2015 at 15:48
You're absolutely right, it's a fretless bass and Roger doesn't do that. An interesting thing about Money; the riff is played both by Waters on bass AND by Gilmour on the Leslie guitar. That's how they get that great "fat" sound. |
Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: October 15 2015 at 00:23
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I love him, but he's an average bassist. Even Gilmour played a lot the bass in the studio albums. Some lines in The Piper are good, like TUTSAW, but he's a much better "artist" than he's a musician. ------------- I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place |
Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: October 16 2015 at 00:23
| Always thought of him as a great artist and poet, rather than a singer or player. |
Posted By: sublime220
Date Posted: October 16 2015 at 11:34
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Let There Be Light, one of the best Floyd songs. ------------- There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark... |
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: October 16 2015 at 13:24
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"A Saucerful of Secrets" all round is a great case for Roger Waters bass work. "Money" is an obvious, but "Two Suns In The Sunset" isn't. Despite the latter being a restrained bass line without the frantic of his early days. On a documentary Ron Geesin says Roger was not particularly good at the rhythms, but excellent at timing. So on that basis, "The Final Cut" maybe should be listened to with that in mind? Hugh Hopper was for me the better bass guitarist than PF and KC, but Roger Waters has a great sense of timing. The more guitar songs from "Amused To Death" should be considered, except for "What God Wants Pt.1" and "It's A Miracle". (According to Wikipedia, someone else played on those tracks) And if you don't listen to the lyrics, even "The Pros And Cons Of Hitchhiking" has solid bass playing. Given there's barely a fill or solo on either album. Hang on, surely Chris Squire is the better bass player than Roger Waters and Hugh Hopper? Argh! All confused now! Roger Waters not a great bass soloist, but the perfect bass player for a band.
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: October 16 2015 at 14:58
That's one of the few where he 'shines' on a studio track. That opening bass riff was an inspiration for the main riff in Metallica's "Master Of Puppets". ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: October 17 2015 at 19:19
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I think his best work is all over the Animals album, Pigs (3 Different Ones) especially. Had a great riff with Money. Knows when to leave the spaces (TDSOTM) and knows his way around a groove too (ABITW 1, 2 and 3). Nice riff in Set The Controls. Some of his best ensemble work is Shine One (Parts 5 - 9). That he and Mr Mason recorded Atom Heart Mother in one take is definitely worthy of note... One of These Days double act with DG. And one day his work on The Embryo (especially those great live versions)... |
Posted By: AZF
Date Posted: October 17 2015 at 19:31
I've never noticed where exactly, but on documentaries it was revealed that later on in recording the rhythms of the other instruments didn't match up as both Waters and Mason were playing either a bit faster or slower. It's come to something that after all these decades of hearing that, I still can't find the moment they were talking about. And even if I do find out where it is, the thought of Roger and Nick recording their take across the full 20 odd minutes is a powerful piece for his case!
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: October 17 2015 at 19:55
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One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces... ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 17 2015 at 20:09
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Care must be taken on occasion as Gilmour did in fact do quite a bit of the bass in the studio. I was quite surprised when I learnt of this - especially regarding Pigs - the bass line is so Waters. The 'funky' jam in Echoes, the first half on Pompeii - Waters is just grooving along and his sound is fantastic. Love his pick work when he does those fast runs up and down a string. Mason doesn't get much credit for his drum work - some say things like dull, lazy, basic, standard........but his style was spot-on for Floyd. Couldn't picture it working with someone the calibre of Palmer or Collins. And what Mason lacks in 'chops', he makes up for with fantastic ideas and off-the-cuff creativity. You don't often see drummer's names in the composing credits in those days, but Mason was regularly credited on albums. I don't believe Roger and Nick couldn't 'lock together' - they are the perfect rhythm-section for Floyd. Next thing is 'who's the better bassist - Waters or Pratt ??' |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: October 17 2015 at 20:20
They both play bass on One Of These Days, a double act. DG was pleased at having the bass with the clean, newer strings while Rog didn't. But yes, Have A Cigar. |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: October 17 2015 at 20:23
Pratt ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 17 2015 at 20:29
| Waters loved his flange pedal....... |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 17 2015 at 22:30
I liked Mason even better in those early days, where he sometimes went into a more melodic kind of playing, to try to explain it some way. Things like what he did on Set The Controls for the Heart of the Sun, Remeber a Day, A Saucerful of Secrets... he would later on go into a more straightforward kind of drummer, though. And in a way Waters went along with Mason with his bass playing... I mean, Set the Controls melody was mainly played by Mason and Waters, and it's great... and I guess that's not a very common thing to hear... not even from Squire. Perhaps some of ELP's songs. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 17 2015 at 23:15
| Does 'Skins' count ?? Mason did a great job on TER. As for the bass work - Gilmour can pull it off, though you can sort of tell that the bass isn't his 1st instrument. Pratt is fine (what little he contributed) and who's the other - James Guthrie - on Allons-Y ?? No, it's Bob Ezrin, just looked at the booklet. He plays well. Would've been beyond MAGNIFICENT had Waters contributed the bass parts - had the music been exactly the same, but with Waters bass throughout, I dare say TER would be rated a lot higher......... |
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: October 18 2015 at 10:29
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hmmmm, probably Echoes, One of These Days, Careful with That Axe, Eugene, Money, or something like that. ------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 18 2015 at 21:24
Yeah, I guess Skins should count among the early drumming stile I liked from Mason. That was a nice touch on that last album, among a few others. I guess the bass isn't so outstanding throughout, though. |
Posted By: RockHound
Date Posted: October 19 2015 at 20:35
My thoughts exactly. I consider the driving, echoed bass Waters' signature sound.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 19 2015 at 21:32
But One of these Days has both Waters and Gilmour on bass, and actually I think it was Gilmour who developed the technique for the bass on this song... which had some good studio tampering about it. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 20 2015 at 02:52
You sound like a Waters basher.... Waters is like Wright and Mason.... and Gilmour (even him).... Not great musicians in terms of technique, but they were giants in terms of ideas developed (at least during the 70's) Yes Gilmour was a tad superior muso to the other three (and millions miles ahead of Barrett) and he might have been a better bass player than Waters (though there is nothing to really suggest this), but Waters wrote all the bass parts. If Gilmour indeed plays bass on OOTD, it's the middle section , once he's stopped playing his bottleneck lapsteel-sitar thing... the booming bass entrance is 100% Waters. if in Sheeps & Dogs, Waters asked Gilmour to play bass, it is because he wanted to play rhythm guitar (like on Pigs on the wings)... he needed the r.guitar experience, as he was soon to make the Wall demo tracks all alone, while Dave & Rick were recording their solo albums, thus using all of their valid musical ideas for themselves instead of putting them in the Floyd bucket. But even in Sheeps & Dogs, the bass parts were written by Waters, since the music existed prior to WYWH, and was played on stage many times????
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Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: October 20 2015 at 05:39
There is clearly two different bass guitars at the beginning of that track. http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_of_These_Days_%28instrumental%29" rel="nofollow - http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_of_These_Days_%28instrumental%29 ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 20 2015 at 22:26
I didn't intend to bash Waters, I was just writing what I had read some time ago... checking it out in wikipedia as the latest poster suggested, it's indeed true, it was both Gilmour and Waters and using effects to achieve the sound. Who of the two came up with the idea, I don't remember, though I do believe it was Gilmour who was fond of experimenting with studio tricks. As for Waters having Gilmour play bass because he himself prefered to play rhythm guitars, I don't see why he would have to choose one over the other on studio, since he could play both and overdub, just as I imagine Gilmour had to do in order to play the bass and the lead guitars. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 21 2015 at 02:51
yeah, sorry maybe, but there are Gilmour bashers (for continuing Floyd and not doing much worthy since) and there are Waters bashers (for acting like a tyrant and imposing his so-called "farther-less childhood" to the world >> which is pure BS, since only one or two songs off The Wall and TFC are related to that issue) the Waters bashers like to hint that Roger couldn't play bass at all, or at least not well (and pictures showing Wright tuning his bass on stage, because Waters was incapable of doing it himself), which is why Gilmour had to help him out, especially on the Animals sessions... but this is pure BS, since Waters had to play both Dogs & Sheeps' bass parts on stage for years before getting in the studio. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 21 2015 at 22:30
| I do tend to be more on the side of Gilmour than Waters on the fighting side of Floyd, but in the end I do like what they both have done, both together and by themselves, and I do know that they both did their best when working together (and with Wright too, and I guess also Mason, though he does have much less writing credits). And besides, Waters was more of a songwriter than a bass player, and I believe that's the way he thinks of himself, I understand he really took the bass because the band needed a bass player. However, I do like what he and Mason did with Floyd a lot, specially on their earlier albums where they did some really interesting stuff. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 22 2015 at 03:44
As I wrote in this thread http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=103085&KW=roger+waters&PN=2" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=103085&KW=roger+waters&PN=2 I tend to side with Waters for reasons stated in there... I'd tend to agree with you (and Roger) about the best way to see him, but.... I'm not that sure that he took the bass, just to be in the band and write songs... in the early Barrett days, Waters was not all that instrumental (pun intended ) in writing songs ... at least not more than Wright would've been... IMHO, of course |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: October 22 2015 at 10:46
I've never actually thought this was true. Roger even thanked Dave for helping him win "best bassist" polls. It's not that big of a deal, because the bass guitar really never stood out in Floyd apart from "One of These Days" and "Have a Cigar" (and select other moments), but it's common knowledge Dave recorded quite a few of the basslines. Roger may have had an initial concept of what the bass part should be, but Dave being much more of a musician refined improved and refined them. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 22 2015 at 11:59
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Yes Gilmour was a tad superior muso to the other three (and millions miles ahead of Barrett)... [/QUOTE] Don't you think that's a little harsh, friend? I mean, I'm no fan, but the man was somewhat of a visionary of the band and a decent musician in his own right. Try lightening up a little. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: sublime220
Date Posted: October 22 2015 at 13:51
------------- There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark... |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: October 22 2015 at 14:42
That's where you and I part company, Hank. ------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 22 2015 at 21:59
Yeah, I had kind of thought about that point of him not being a main songwriter in the beginning. But still, I think Waters did wrote about himself not considering to be a bass player, but a song writer. I think it was in the liner notes from the "In the Flesh" live album. But perhaps I missed a bit about how this came to be... I mean, I must have read it over 10 years ago... perhaps even 15. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 23 2015 at 00:10
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I've said it once, maybe twice, could even be thrice, but when watching Waters perform on the Pompeii film, yes, he's a righteous bassist. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 23 2015 at 02:53
I never held Barrett in high regard, TBH... Barrett's so-called "genius" was his visionary songwriting angle, but he was hardly a better muso than the other three. The only Barrett Floyd hit or short pop tune that I like is Arnold Layne... The rest is mainly utter-nonsense... and outside Overdrive and Astronomy (and to a lesser extent Pow'R), I don't find much to keep in Piper. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 23 2015 at 02:59
| ^ You, of all people, you don't think anything of Matilda Mother ?? Anyway, this is the Rick I like (I want a Farfisa.....professional duo..........) |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 23 2015 at 03:13
I don't remember Mathilda standing out from the pack of Barrett-era short tunes. here is what I had to write about Piper in 04: Many Floyd detractors are usually giving the good nod only to this album, because they are fans of Syd Barrett's silly ditties and discard the rest of the group as mere support cast. This is of course immensely unfair, because the other three members, while no virtuosos, where definitely the musical backbone of the group, as cold be then seen or heard in concert way back then. Indeed, their live appearances were about lengthy and improvised tracks and featured way more than Barrett's twee songwriting, no matter how popular it was on the radio airwaves. To be quite honest, Barrett's so-called genius is not quite as evident as some would have you to believe on this Gates Of Dawn album, as there are no songs that equal the potential of their previous two singles "Emily" and "Arnold". There are indeed a bunch of short songs that were about quaint British/English weirdness, but it's nothing that The Beatles had done a few months before with Sgt Pepper or Magical Mystery Tour and the Fab Four did that much better. Sooooo those thinking these short tracks are pure genius are forgetting this album post-dates Sgt Pepper by three months (June and Sept 67) and you can find the same kind of madness in albums that came out that same fall, namely Procol Harum's debut (Mabel, Garden Fence etc..), Traffic's Mr Fantasy (the non-album singles like Paper Sun & Hole In My Shoe and Berkshire Poppies, Coloured Rain ) and The Nice's Thoughts Of Emerlist (Flower King, Bonnie K, Maggie), although the latter two came out in December that same year, so Floyd might have been influential on these. Where Floyd does the difference is in the more obscure and longer tracks, thus giving us another facet of their crafts, the live one. While the album-opening Astronomy Domine might appear as another poppish track, the three other musicians do marvels and it's little wonder it will be the only track that will survive in concert past Barrett's replacement and all the way until the release of Ummagumma. Another track is the gigantic Interstellar Overdrive, le lengthy track that sets the tone to Space Rock. Another weirdie is Pow R Toc H, where the whole group plays abstract and often dissonant music, thus showing enough depth to grab the serious music punters' attention. Roger Waters' sole penned track is a relatively instrumental, since there is only one verse (not that good), the rest featuring them playing and soloing. Sooo discarding the other three acolytes to magnify the ephemeral genius of Barrett is unjust. In this album, the producer clearly chose to go with the Barrett facet, and as such, it was a good commercial choice. I would not hate to see this album reissued with the Emily and Arnold and their B-sides as added bonus! They'd blend in well with the album's madness and would therefore make Syd's Floyd-contribution complete in one disc. Hard to say this album is not essential (historically, anyway), but at least I can say that it's only moderately good. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 23 2015 at 03:49
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^ Fair 'nuff. Well written review (as often you do....) I love the album, but I too, question just what it is with ol' Syd. I do respect his work of the day, though I question the 'genius' that many folks see in him........ |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: November 10 2015 at 13:30
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I think Roger understands his limitations as a musician - he said as much in that Howard Stern interview. Roger does, however, have the good taste to allow others to carry out his musical vision. Hand over the bass to the pro and let him/her manifest what's in his head. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |