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I'm Translating YES 《close to the edge&#122

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Topic: I'm Translating YES 《close to the edge&#122
Posted By: mitarai_panda
Subject: I'm Translating YES 《close to the edge&#122
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 01:45
I'm Translating YES 《close to the edge》,has something I can't understand。
fiest,I konw the song bbased on   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Hesse" rel="nofollow - Hermann Hesse 's book  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_%28book%29" rel="nofollow - Siddhartha  ,the book I readed,and know the thought,but also has some sentence I can't get it。
such as:

【In her white lace, you could clearly see the lady sadly looking.

Saying that she'd take the blame

For the crucifixion of her own domain. I get up,


Two million people barely satisfy.

Two hundred women watch one woman cry, too late.

The eyes of honesty can achieve.

How many millions do we deceive each day?


Thru the duty she would coil their said Amusement of her story asking only

Interest could be laid upon the children of her Domain.

 

In charge of who is there in charge of me.

Do I look on blindly and say I see the way?

The truth is written all along the page.

How old will I be before I come of age for you?】


Who is the lady?what's the meaning of "Two million people" and " Two hundred women"?

And I know sometimes verses that often don't seem to mean anything, but I want to know the song's turely significance。




Replies:
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 03:31
Finding a sense in Jon's lyrics? Good luck ! Wink

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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution


Posted By: JD
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 07:11
^Agreed, never try to find literal translations in those lyrics. It's always best to try and think abstract when dealing with such matters. While there may be an underlying "theme" to the words, they should not necessarily be looked at as a story that follows any literary conventions. Jon is notorious for using words strictly because of there sound not their meaning or that they had any context to the song itself.



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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 08:08
^My thoughts exactly.
You'll have about as much luck translating Jon's lyrics as anyone trying to decipher Finnegan's Wake or the latter half of Ulysses. 10.000 possible meanings and nothing carved in stone.

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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 09:47
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Finding a sense in Jon's lyrics? Good luck ! Wink

Yes, Even Chris Squire once said he did not know what Jon Anderson was singing about most of the time.


Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 10:43
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Finding a sense in Jon's lyrics? Good luck ! Wink


Yes, Even Chris Squire once said he did not know what Jon Anderson was singing about most of the time.


Even Jon Anderson once said he did not know what Jon Anderson was singing about most of the time!

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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!


Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 11:09
Yep, he said he chose words for the sounds of the words, and not the meanings.

This is why they're so IRRITATING. They're not clever lyrics. Just gobbledygook. 


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Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 11:18
^Well, they never sounded like goobledygook to my dad. But he did smoke a lot of hash.

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Vive Le France!!


Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 11:20
No one could smoke that much hash. There is an upper lethal limit which kicks in before you can understand Jon's lyrics. ;-)

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Posted By: RayRo
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 11:26
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

No one could smoke that much hash. There is an upper lethal limit which kicks in before you can understand Jon's lyrics. ;-)
Oh, so that's what killed him! Why, we never really knew what did him in! LOL


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: November 14 2015 at 16:46
I think they make sense in the same way that abstract paintings make sense.  They invoke a mood rather than a literal meaning.


Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: November 15 2015 at 12:27
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

This is why they're so IRRITATING. They're not clever lyrics. Just gobbledygook. 


I never found them irritating until the late 1970s when he literally started preaching, shouting nothing but New Age Exhortations at us.

Incidentally, if I read one more review which states RELAYER was based on Tolstoy's WAR AND PEACE I don't know WHAT I'm gonna do. (Precisely such a review was posted on Prog Archives a few days ago...)


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 15 2015 at 12:34
TFTO is based on ideas from Paramahansa's 'Autobio of a Yogi'....but I have never read that CTTE was based on ideas from Siddhartha by Hesse.
Where did you read that from?
 
 


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: Replayer
Date Posted: November 15 2015 at 18:53
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

TFTO is based on ideas from Paramahansa's 'Autobio of a Yogi'....but I have never read that CTTE was based on ideas from Siddhartha by Hesse.
Where did you read that from?

The wikipedia articles for CTTE, TFTO and Relayer mention they were inspired by Siddhartha, 'Autobio of a Yogi' and War and Peace, respectively. These are also mentioned on Anderson's http://www.jonanderson.com/about.html" rel="nofollow - website : "The lyrics are frequently inspired by various books Anderson has enjoyed, from Tolstoy's 'War and Peace' to Hermann Hesse's 'Siddhartha'. A footnote in Paramahansa Yogananda's 'Autobiography of a Yogi' inspired an entire double album 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' (1973)."


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: November 15 2015 at 20:33
I always found a bit of Siddhartha in the Remembering:
 
"As we shall speak to differ also
The ends meet the river's son
So the ends meet the river's son"
 
which isn't a compliment, that book is absolute rubbish.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 07:43
Originally posted by Replayer Replayer wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

TFTO is based on ideas from Paramahansa's 'Autobio of a Yogi'....but I have never read that CTTE was based on ideas from Siddhartha by Hesse.
Where did you read that from?

The wikipedia articles for CTTE, TFTO and Relayer mention they were inspired by Siddhartha, 'Autobio of a Yogi' and War and Peace, respectively. These are also mentioned on Anderson's http://www.jonanderson.com/about.html" rel="nofollow - website : "The lyrics are frequently inspired by various books Anderson has enjoyed, from Tolstoy's 'War and Peace' to Hermann Hesse's 'Siddhartha'. A footnote in Paramahansa Yogananda's 'Autobiography of a Yogi' inspired an entire double album 'Tales From Topographic Oceans' (1973)."
 
Thanks for the info Replayer.....


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 07:47
Just blowing the dust off my BA(Hons) in English...... ;-)
OK, let's look at Gunter Grass poetry, then. 

Happiness 

An empty bus 
hurtles through the starry night. 
Perhaps the driver is singing 
and is happy because he sings. 


Does THAT make sense ?  OK, how about -

Tour de France 

When the leading bunch 
were overtaken 
by a brimstone butterfly 
many cyclists gave up the race. 

The answer is, "not conventionally". It paints a picture, yes. So it's much the same as Jon Anderson's lyrics, which have no explicit meaning, but perhaps have an implicit meaning - what you read into them. In these two cases, we have a picture - Jon's lyrics are less conventional insofaras they are even less structured than Gunter Grass's poetry. 

I note the original poster is Chinese. Chinese Tang poetry seems to follow much the same pattern, to me (not read all that much) and it stands up as an art form, but some things don't cross cultural divides too well. 

The reason why I claimed earlier that Jon Anderson's poetry is gobbledygook is that it doesn't make *conventional* sense. It's more a flow of consciousness - like jazz poetry. I dislike both, I'm afraid. 

Clever lyrics for me are something like Marilllions' "Grendel", which paint a far more understandable and accessible picture - to quote - 

Silken membranes span his path, fingerprints in dew
Denizens of twilight lands humbly beg him through
Mother nature's b*****d child shunned by leaf and stream***
An alien in an alien land seeks solace within dreams
The shaper's lies his poisoned tongue malign with mocking harp
Beguiling queen her innocence offends his icy heart

Hounds freeze in silence bewitched by the reptile spell
Sulphurous essence pervades round the grassy dell
Heorot awaits him like lamb to the butcher's knife
Stellular heavens ignore even children's cries

Screams are his music, lightning his guide
Raping the darkness, death by his side

Chants rise in terror, free round the oaken beams
Flickering firelight portraying the grisly scene
Warriors advance, prepare for the nightmare foe
Futile their sacrifice as even their hearts must know

Heroes delusion, with feet in the grave
Lurker at the threshold, he cares not for the brave, he cares not for the brave

There y'go. Less pretentious twaddle, please, Jon. Quasi-mystical mumbo - jumbo rubbish. You may LIKE it, and you're allowed to, as others are allowed to DISLIKE it. It is art, after all. 

*** - the obscenity filter on the forum censored this, not me. ;-)


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Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 08:10
Plus. How exactly do you translate something which is basically, a word picture, into Chinese ?

Can be done, I suppose. Given enough headache pills. ;-)


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Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 08:47
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:


There y'go. Less pretentious twaddle, please, Jon. Quasi-mystical mumbo - jumbo rubbish. You may LIKE it, and you're allowed to, as others are allowed to DISLIKE it. It is art, after all. 
 
 
I really, really like Jon Anderson's lyrics, particularly Gates of Delirium, The Remembering and Ritual.
 
also all the others.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 09:15
^It's interesting that you think Siddhartha (from an award winning Nobel author) is Rubbish, yet Anderson's lyrics aren't......
LOL
 


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 09:47
Each to his own ! ;-)

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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 09:59
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

I always found a bit of Siddhartha in the Remembering:
 
"As we shall speak to differ also
The ends meet the river's son
So the ends meet the river's son"
 
which isn't a compliment, that book is absolute rubbish.

My favourite book by Hesse, followed by "Steppenwolf". Ah well, how opinions vary.


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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 09:59
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

^It's interesting that you think Siddhartha (from an award winning Nobel author) is Rubbish, yet Anderson's lyrics aren't......
LOL
 
 
Siddhartha isn't well written, and the theories espoused in it are sophomoric.  Anderson's lyrics, on the other hand, you can sing along with while driving. 
 
I stand by my original assessment.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 10:00
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

I always found a bit of Siddhartha in the Remembering:
 
"As we shall speak to differ also
The ends meet the river's son
So the ends meet the river's son"
 
which isn't a compliment, that book is absolute rubbish.

My favourite book by Hesse, followed by "Steppenwolf". Ah well, how opinions vary.
 
Perhaps it reads better in the original language.


Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 10:06
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

^It's interesting that you think Siddhartha (from an award winning Nobel author) is Rubbish, yet Anderson's lyrics aren't......
LOL
 
 
Siddhartha isn't well written, and the theories espoused in it are sophomoric.  Anderson's lyrics, on the other hand, you can sing along with while driving. 
 
I stand by my original assessment.

Did you read it in the German original? If not you may have come across a bad translation.


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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.


Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 10:36
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

^It's interesting that you think Siddhartha (from an award winning Nobel author) is Rubbish, yet Anderson's lyrics aren't......
LOL
 
 
Siddhartha isn't well written, and the theories espoused in it are sophomoric.  Anderson's lyrics, on the other hand, you can sing along with while driving. 
 
I stand by my original assessment.
 
Of course you do....
Wink


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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 12:20
Originally posted by BaldFriede BaldFriede wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

^It's interesting that you think Siddhartha (from an award winning Nobel author) is Rubbish, yet Anderson's lyrics aren't......
LOL
 
 
Siddhartha isn't well written, and the theories espoused in it are sophomoric.  Anderson's lyrics, on the other hand, you can sing along with while driving. 
 
I stand by my original assessment.

Did you read it in the German original? If not you may have come across a bad translation.
 
I did like both Demian and The Glass Bead Game, and Steppenwolf as well, so I think it was just Hesse's misappropriation of Eastern mysticism that annoyed me.
 
Also that you can't sing along with it while driving.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: November 16 2015 at 12:21
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

^It's interesting that you think Siddhartha (from an award winning Nobel author) is Rubbish, yet Anderson's lyrics aren't......
LOL
 
 
Siddhartha isn't well written, and the theories espoused in it are sophomoric.  Anderson's lyrics, on the other hand, you can sing along with while driving. 
 
I stand by my original assessment.
 
Of course you do....
Wink
 
did you expect any other result?


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: November 17 2015 at 11:46
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Finding a sense in Jon's lyrics? Good luck ! Wink


Yes, Even Chris Squire once said he did not know what Jon Anderson was singing about most of the time.
Harrumphh!

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: November 17 2015 at 11:50
Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Finding a sense in Jon's lyrics? Good luck ! Wink

Yes, Even Chris Squire once said he did not know what Jon Anderson was singing about most of the time.

John Bollenberg of ioPages magazine talked to Jon Anderson last week (interview, I guess) and Jon told him that he is in touch with Chris on a daily basis. Maybe they are sorting that issue out now...Clown


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http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]


Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: November 17 2015 at 11:51
Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:


^It's interesting that you think Siddhartha (from an award winning Nobel author) is Rubbish, yet Anderson's lyrics aren't......
LOL
 

 
Siddhartha isn't well written, and the theories espoused in it are sophomoric.  Anderson's lyrics, on the other hand, you can sing along with while driving. 
 
I stand by my original assessment.
I enjoyed the hell out of the book as a generally bored teenager looking past a lot of young adult literature that couldn't cut it for me. Siddhartha cast a spell, and I soon sought out other Hesse novels.

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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: November 17 2015 at 12:35
Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Originally posted by Manuel Manuel wrote:

Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Finding a sense in Jon's lyrics? Good luck ! Wink

Yes, Even Chris Squire once said he did not know what Jon Anderson was singing about most of the time.

John Bollenberg of ioPages magazine talked to Jon Anderson last week (interview, I guess) and Jon told him that he is in touch with Chris on a daily basis. Maybe they are sorting that issue out now...Clown
 
I'm sure they have lots to talk about.  I'm equally sure that Jon believes this most sincerely.


Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: November 17 2015 at 12:36
Originally posted by Rednight Rednight wrote:

Originally posted by emigre80 emigre80 wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:


^It's interesting that you think Siddhartha (from an award winning Nobel author) is Rubbish, yet Anderson's lyrics aren't......
LOL
 

 
Siddhartha isn't well written, and the theories espoused in it are sophomoric.  Anderson's lyrics, on the other hand, you can sing along with while driving. 
 
I stand by my original assessment.
I enjoyed the hell out of the book as a generally bored teenager looking past a lot of young adult literature that couldn't cut it for me. Siddhartha cast a spell, and I soon sought out other Hesse novels.
 
I did like it when I was 15.  Now, not so much.  There was a great parody of it in the New Yorker back in the 1970s.


Posted By: novasolis
Date Posted: November 18 2015 at 04:14
I think it's a reference to mary witnessing jesus ("Domain" ?) be crucified, and a crowd of onlookers too, a google search says the Bible refers to a large crowd of women there. I mean, the I Get Up section uses a western church organ for a reason, right? Which meshes with the whole books/songs theme of western meets eastern spirituality (the coral guitar, enlightenment, etc).

I think the "Two million" refers to the majority of people in the world who are unhappy, compared to the "two hundred" who are now followers (the "Interest could be laid upon the children of her Domain/followers of her son" line). 

Then the last stanza, Jon speaks of himself: In charge of who is there in charge of me" is jigsaw grammar, but together with "Do I look on blindly and say I see the way?", it seems to refers to his confusion and uncertainty "who's in charge of me". The last lines say the truth is right in the scriptures, but when will I reach enlightenment and see you for myself? I'm assuming the valley/the man with his arm is that person. Or whatever figure Jon thinks up. And then the song's music seems to reach a high state too, so I think that's the intended message. 

This has some direct Jon quotes too: http://genius.com/Yes-close-to-the-edge-lyrics/

“The song came about because Steve was playing these chords one day, and I started singing, ‘Two million people barely satisfy.’ It’s about the incredible imbalance of the human experience on the planet.” – Jon Anderson

“There are several lines that relate to the church. Churchgoers are always fighting about who’s better and who’s richer and who’s more hip. So at the end of the midsection there’s a majestic church organ. We destroy the church organ through the Moog. This leads to another organ solo rejoicing in the fact that you can turn your back on churches and find it within yourself to be your own church.”




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