Solo Yes better off as Yes albums?
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Topic: Solo Yes better off as Yes albums?
Posted By: uduwudu
Subject: Solo Yes better off as Yes albums?
Date Posted: July 29 2016 at 18:51
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Idle speculation time I suppose but what the hell. I've a CD (free) from Jon Anderson containing selections from his solo album outtakes. Did anyone ever get that box set? To me it was blindingly obvious that his fine songs and workman like backing were crying out for the instrumental splendour of Yes to bring them into fruition. Anyway. What I wondered and based on the ideas sketched out on his outtake CD is what solo Yes member albums would have been better off as Yes albums? Do they have that potential? The sum being the greater than the parts and all that. Any solo album or even parallel career albums e.g Richard Wakeman's material which may have been (even) better as a Yes album. Of course these might be very long albums... This "idea" was aided by reading (Master Group's debut thread) how certain primo type guitarists (Latimer) may not be entirely the best, or even a good singer. But while that is sadly true, at least he never sank to the worst level of prog vocal (Steve Howe singing "Australia" on Beginnings. Yikes). However, would Beginnings have been made a better Yes album? Olias? How about Ramshackled? Not heard that in such a long time and recall being somewhat appalled at the content. Still some like it and I am prepared to be mistaken and corrected. I like Squire's album and even shelled out for the remaster though I still think JA would have been the (my) first choice of singer. Really good singers are few. So... Yes albums that could've been? Or not. Heaven knows there may be Yes albums that should not be (just the last one for me anyway). I suppose this might stimulate ideas for fictional rearrangements. It's all talk.  |
Replies:
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: July 29 2016 at 19:32
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"It's all talk" I see what you did there. I prefer the sterling musicianship of classic YES. But without Jon the threadbare YES lacks compositional skills.
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: July 29 2016 at 20:40
So it would seem. A lot falls on Steve Howe's poor old shoulders. ARW seem to have an abundance of writing skills. Time for a union. Eventually. The sterling musician ship is what might have elevated some solo albums from the doldrums... |
omphaloskepsis wrote:Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: July 29 2016 at 20:59
| The Living Tree would have benefited a lot from the rest of the band doing their thing. At least "Morning Star" and "Anyway and Always". |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: July 29 2016 at 22:40
| Classic Yes was great because it was a collaboration---sum of it's parts. Yes solo stuff is overall not great---of course there are a few moments here and there---other than Bruford who had a long stellar career. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: July 29 2016 at 23:42
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I think much of Jon Anderson's later music would benefit from the bigger sound of Yes as a whole. The other solo works stand on their own merits (or lack thereof). Yet Anderson has done some stellar work; Olias of Sunhillow is one of my favorite albums ever. I appreciate him as an artist who has experimented with different styles and sounds. Not all have worked out equally, but is that not the nature of artistry? ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 30 2016 at 08:36
I would rather suggest they lack compositional ideas and concepts ... to get their work put together. Skills, they have, but making those skills "make sense" in a way that is not just a show off of your abilities, is another story! I always thought, though not the actual case, that "Olias of Sunhillow" should have been the next YES album and with Vangelis replacing Rick Wakeman, which would have made it all ... really different and quite interesting. I played "Olias" as much as "TFTO" at the time when it came out, when no one else was listening to it, and the radio station in Santa Barbara (with one exception) thought the album was just noisy crap, when in actuality it even hinted at a lot of stuff that became "world music". You wanna talk about experimental and creative?
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: July 30 2016 at 08:51
| The classical YES period would have indeed help some solo albums by it's members, like Rick Wakeman's King Arthur, or Jon Anderson's Olias, etc, but these albums also helped them develop their skills as composers, and allowed them to experiment and grow outside of the band, thus helping the YES sound all over. |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: July 30 2016 at 12:17
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"Olias of Sunhilliow" is the only Jon Anderson album I like, but that one is a 5 star album -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: July 30 2016 at 13:37
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I like 'em the way they are, really. First off, with the exception of Rick Wakeman once he started getting really new agey in the later 80s, I like all the Yes-related solo albums a lot. When it comes to the most Yes-like solo albums--and maybe Howe's Beginnings is the best example, I think it's still valuable to "hear the parts of the whole separated out" so to speak. It gives you a clearer view of a particular band member's perspective and contributions. That's true in most cases of a band doing solo albums, I think. And of particular interest to folks around here, Pink Floyd is another great example, as is the Who. But a lot of solo albums depart from the band concept in significant ways, too. Even Rick Wakeman's early solo albums have a much different feel to them than Yes albums. And of course, Alan White's Ramshackled explores some very different material than Yes, as does a lot of Bill Bruford's stuff, some of Jon Anderson's stuff, Patrick Moraz's stuff, etc. And with something like Ramshackled, which I love, by the way, it doesn't really make sense to try to envision it as as a Yes album. Something like "Ooh Baby", for example, owes more to R&B/soul and jazz fusion than it does to progressive rock, and Yes wouldn't be able to pull a song like that off in the same way. "Ooh Baby" is more the sort of thing that Frank Zappa would have done really well in the early 70s, especially with the Waka/Jawaka or the One Size Fits All/Roxy bands. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 30 2016 at 13:49
hmm..considering one of the few problems that any prog fans have in general with Yes.. usually begins and ends with Jon...and considering Chris was as good a vocalist as Jon and perhaps being ..umm.. less irrating. Would it not be safe to say. or least debate that since FooW is musically as good as anything Yes did.. that with as good a vocalist and one perhaps less prone to irratate people that FooW could be considered not only the no-briainer as a choice for being better off as a Yes album... but could say if was as good start to finish. Composition to orchestration to instumental genius to vocally as any Yes album? Could be an interesting question to be asked... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 30 2016 at 18:07
| I prefer Chris Squire's voice to Jon Anderson's. |
Posted By: emigre80
Date Posted: July 30 2016 at 22:23
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I like Steve Howe's solo work. The singing, not so much, although the main problem with his singing is he would always try to sing outside of his range and that made his voice sound strained and thin. But I do enjoy the instrumental stuff very much, and it's hard to see how Time or Natural Timbre would have been improved by adding other Yes members to the mix. I'm not as familiar with the solo work of other Yes members. I did listen to Wakeman's work in the 1970s and found it kind of gaudy, actually. It hasn't worn well for me.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: July 31 2016 at 05:56
not the lyrical genius Jon was... but yeah.. even though I have never had a problem with Jon's voice (obviously as Yes is and has always been one of the absolute favorites) but I do just on pure preference like Chris's voice. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: July 31 2016 at 11:57
I agree. It's the only JA solo that a Yes fan really needs. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: July 31 2016 at 12:29
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I actually prefer Jon Anderson's Change We Must over any solo effort other than Fish Out of Water. Olias is hugely overrated, muddy, and rarely getting to any 'heights.' The piano-based, and orchestrally supported arrangements of Change We Must are, in my opinion, far superior format for Jon's talents than the Yes material that was going on ten years before and after it. The duet with French chanteuse, Sandrine Piau, "Chagall Duet," is one of the most romantic, adrenaline-bursting songs I've ever heard. The use of organ, orchestra and childrens choir on "State of Independence" makes this version one hundred times better than any other version I've ever heard. The version of "Hearts" here I like TONS better than the original. "Hurry Home" and "Shaker Loops" are incredibly well arranged and performed--with symphonic orchestra and choir performing such emotionally powerful roles. A lot of YES music has been wonderfully rendered unto orchestral formats--but none so well as Jon's song's on the album Change We Must. If YES were able to perform and construct songs as well as Jon, Tim Handley and conductor Nigel Warren Green executed for Change We Must we might have a conversation here. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: BunBun
Date Posted: July 31 2016 at 21:02
| Yea, all the Yes members are very talented in their own right but nothing I've heard within the various members solo careers ever reaches the height of Yes classic material. Sure, there are some very good moments here and there but the collaboration between all the members is what made Yes so special. The only solo album that was ever truly great to my ears was Bruford's One of a Kind, which obviously benefited from Allan Holdsworth presence. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: August 01 2016 at 00:59
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So for the most part Yes would have been better off with the solo albums contributing to the band efforts (mainly). Solo efforts were a bit diluted or distracting. Must try Olias again one day. It always irked me that, given it's popularity generally I didn't like it. But ,yes, perhaps that could've been the Yes album between Relayer (one more with Moraz!) and GFTO. Oh well, we may never know. But the idea of Yes future being all instrumental... now that would be progressive, bordering on real classical rock. (Picture any audience singing all the words for Close To The Edge). |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: August 01 2016 at 07:17
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Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: August 01 2016 at 14:59
I know. It's a question of the audience disassociating the cult of personality. Difficult with popular music as one grows up (or not...) and lives in such close proximity with whoever produces the music. After all it's no coincidence that after every change (in any rock band) but using Yes as an example, the audience react with caution to the change. The two Trevors spring to mind as two very creative guys who unfairly earned audience vitriol. This happened with Genesis; hey look, no Genesis. Terrific. Well done... But what is the choice? Squire is dead should his band die as well? Especially as he had long ago expressed the idea that Yes music be played. Perhaps now a variety of types of Yes repertoire can be played without too much fear of the ultra conservative fan hearing something he does not know. While I understand that KC with no Fripp is to me either impossible or unappealing it would be possible if the KC repertoire be played with a Fripp type performance. Not even he can lie forever... |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: August 01 2016 at 15:21
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I had no problem with any other personnel change in the past, but Squire was to Yes as Fripp is to KC in my view. I'd rather see Howe, White and whoever else they want to play with concentrate on new music at this point, without the burden of having to do something Yes-like. Aside from that, I just don't care for the nostalgia show approach, and I'm particualrly not interested in it when it turns out to basically be an original (or "classic lineup") member or two of a band playing in a cover band doing a nostalgia show. I want to see people do new material, with new directions based on the unique chemistry, influences, contributions, etc. of a lineup. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 01 2016 at 21:18
I might not have heard so much of their solo discographies, but I do know many albums from Rick Wakeman and enjoy them a lot. Actually, there are more Wakeman albums that I would give 5 stars than Yes album. For Yes, there's only Fragile and CttE for me, while Wakeman has Six Wives, King Arthur, Criminal Record, and Out There. |
Posted By: Rednight
Date Posted: August 02 2016 at 15:43
------------- "It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: August 02 2016 at 19:30
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I think the majority of Yes members solo albums are awful. Olias and Fish Out of Water are exceptions to the rule and work great as they are. Howes albums in particular are bad. His guitar work is fine but he should not sing. Wakeman albums would be better as a group effort. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: BunBun
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 07:10
You know, being a big fan of keyboardists, you would think I would enjoy Rick Wakeman's solo discography more so than I do, I 've only really listened to Six Wives, Criminal Record, and King Arthur. Those albums have some good moments, but rarely do I ever feel like listening to the whole album. Six Wives is my favorite that I have listened to. I'll give Out there a listen, to see how I feel about that one. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 03 2016 at 21:09
| Since you haven't liked the other Wakeman releases, you might not like Out There either, however, it does sound more modern and doesn't have the circus like histrionics he often used in his 70's releases, so it might have a difference in sound you could find more likeable. Still, it's unmistacably Wakeman with lot's of keyboard solos and so. |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: August 04 2016 at 08:09
))
Agree---Jon's solo stuff not my thing mostly---(except his Christmas album which I like
 ) which is why he always needed strong collaborators with classic Yes or with Vangelis. I mean he isn't Peter Gabriel Steve Hackett or even Phil Collins!! |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 04 2016 at 10:46
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Not better, not worse, but different and sometimes that's exactly what's needed. Just considering the five solo albums that were released between Relayer and Gonig for the One (Fish Out Of Water, Olias of Sunhillow, Beginnngs, Ramshackled and The Story of I) then each of them is exactly what it needs to be, that they weren't Yes albums was pretty much the whole point of them. Here's something I wrote on this topic 7 years ago:
When Yes clicked they were magnificent, like all groups that gel into a perfect fusion what they produced in those moments was greater than the sum of the parts - I'll even begrudgingly acknowledge that Close to the Edge's title track is a fine example of that even though I dislike the damn thing with something that is approaching an obsession. But these solo albums were never meant to be that and I love them all the more for it (even Beginnings, which is the least successful of them all to my ancient lugholes).
------------- What? |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 04 2016 at 21:56
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I love Anderson's "Olias," and had the unique pleasure to watch him perform "Flight of the Moorglade" at his "Voice of Yes" show in Illinois back in 2011! This is excellent, please enjoy! < ="cosymantecnisbfw" co="cs" id="SILOBFWID" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; display: block;"> |